MILLANDSON said:
And yes, there are no full marines that have stealthy abilities in TT, but that's because the TT has to be simplified. Given that the vast majority of Space Marines go through Scout training, it's obvious all of them would have some training in stealth.
The
Wolf Scouts
of the
Space Wolves
chapter would be an example of fully developed battle brothers who are capable of making with the sneaky.
-=Brother Praetus=-
Kyorou said:
Now I wonder : would Imperial Fists receive a bonus to their Concealment rolls ? After all, they learned how to sneak in bright yellow armor...
Are you sure that they didn't just cover the area in yellow paint before they started to sneak around ?
ItsUncertainWho said:
Millandson, is there a random height chart included in the creation rules?
Nope, no random height chart, it just says that they average at about 7' generally. You are basically free to make up your height, though you are restricted in that you can't be so big that you would count as Hulking without your armour on.
Although that is allowed in the 'fluff.' Indeed, it seems somewhat typical to include a Marine chap who is so big that they need to swap in terminator armour just to get it to fit.
Kage
SpawnoChaos said:
Now, if a 55 ton tank (69 for the King Tiger) could hide successfully and pull off ambushes... and they were TANKS, I can easily imagine a 7-8 foot tall man in thick armor doing the same.
Aye, although it took a while (and it's crew) to 'conceal' it, it certainly was never going to pass any 'silent move tests'.
MILLANDSON said:
aka_mythos said:
Just imagine if marines were normal sized how stealthy they'd be. At 7-8ft tall, if they can still be stealthy they have mad skills.
If they aren't in their armour, they are counted as being normal size, so it wouldn't make a difference. It's only when in Power Armour that they have a -10 modifier to Silent Move or Concealment checks.
Actually, Scout Armour gives you a +10 to these tests
um what about terminaters? im sure that there will be some in the death watch
brother maven wolf said:
um what about terminaters? im sure that there will be some in the death watch
Terminator is an armor not a career, they are in deathwatch.
Terminator Armour can be requisitioned, but you have to have a ton of Reknown for it, according to earlier spoilers.
As for Scouts, I could see them being an elite rank, like the stuff you find in the Inquisitor's Handbook, or from the upcoming Into the Storm. You take it in place of the standard rank and it represents that you're a veteran sergeant who's dedicated to guiding the neophytes on to become full fledged Space Marines. It could even be a rank 1 alternate. But personally I just can't picture how "Scout" could work as a whole career (specialty) like Assault, or Techmarine does.
I would expect to see rules for Dreadnoughts and Chaplains in Rites of Battle though (and the Scout thing too). They're the kind of things that could definetly work in a book like that, as they're cool but non-standard.
Blood Pact said:
Terminator Armour can be requisitioned, but you have to have a ton of Reknown for it, according to earlier spoilers.
As for Scouts, I could see them being an elite rank, like the stuff you find in the Inquisitor's Handbook, or from the upcoming Into the Storm. You take it in place of the standard rank and it represents that you're a veteran sergeant who's dedicated to guiding the neophytes on to become full fledged Space Marines. It could even be a rank 1 alternate. But personally I just can't picture how "Scout" could work as a whole career (specialty) like Assault, or Techmarine does.
I would expect to see rules for Dreadnoughts and Chaplains in Rites of Battle though (and the Scout thing too). They're the kind of things that could definetly work in a book like that, as they're cool but non-standard.
Sure but then again the modus operandi of the Deathwatch isn't very well known. It is conceivable that a Space Marine might specialize in sneakiness, etc beyond the normal degree of specialization within the Deathwatch (not his home chapter).
Alex
Blood Pact said:
Terminator Armour can be requisitioned, but you have to have a ton of Reknown for it, according to earlier spoilers.
As for Scouts, I could see them being an elite rank, like the stuff you find in the Inquisitor's Handbook, or from the upcoming Into the Storm. You take it in place of the standard rank and it represents that you're a veteran sergeant who's dedicated to guiding the neophytes on to become full fledged Space Marines. It could even be a rank 1 alternate. But personally I just can't picture how "Scout" could work as a whole career (specialty) like Assault, or Techmarine does.
I would expect to see rules for Dreadnoughts and Chaplains in Rites of Battle though (and the Scout thing too). They're the kind of things that could definetly work in a book like that, as they're cool but non-standard.
Given that all Space Marines, in their advancements, get access to Concealment, Silent Move, and some get access to Exotic Weapon Training (which allows them to use the Needler Sniper Rifle), there's no need for a Scout career or Rank, Marines can already get pretty much all the skills I could think of that a Scout would need.
As for Chaplains, there's no bit in the book that ever refers to them as being members of the Deathwatch, where as it does mention Dreadnoughts and various other things that'll likely be in future books (like Astartes tanks, etc) that are used by the Deathwatch. Chaplains are only ever referred to in the bits of the book that describe ranks, etc, in "normal" Chapters.
MILLANDSON said:
Given that all Space Marines, in their advancements, get access to Concealment, Silent Move, and some get access to Exotic Weapon Training (which allows them to use the Needler Sniper Rifle), there's no need for a Scout career or Rank, Marines can already get pretty much all the skills I could think of that a Scout would need.
As for Chaplains, there's no bit in the book that ever refers to them as being members of the Deathwatch, where as it does mention Dreadnoughts and various other things that'll likely be in future books (like Astartes tanks, etc) that are used by the Deathwatch. Chaplains are only ever referred to in the bits of the book that describe ranks, etc, in "normal" Chapters.
No Chaplains at all? That surely sounds sinister. ;-)
Anyway, do Marines get Concealment/Silent Move +10/+20?
Alex
ak-73 said:
No Chaplains at all? That surely sounds sinister. ;-)
Anyway, do Marines get Concealment/Silent Move +10/+20?
Not really, given that each Chapter has it's own method, style and culture of beliefs, so an Ultramarine Chaplain would not at all be suited to looking after the spiritual well-being of a Space Wolf, Black Templar or Blood Angel. Brothers are to look after and ensure their own spiritual well-being, helped by most Watch Fortresses and Stations having Chapels in which they can follow their beliefs in solitude (or with those of the same Chapter). Given that Chaplains are just normal Marines that have been selected for their purity, faith, etc, to act as Chaplains, there's no reason why they wouldn't just revert to being a normal Battle Brother (but a particularly pious/fanatical/etc one) if they were ever seconded to the Deathwatch.
And yep, all Marines can get access to Silent Move and Concealment +20, as well as Tracking, Security, Demolitions, Navigation (Surface), Wrangling, Interrogation, Search and Shadowing, all at +10 or +20. Add that to the number of talents that can help with those things they can get, and there is no need at all, really, for a Scout career.
We should also consider that the DeathWatch members are also veteran who have proven their loyalty to their chapter and to the Imperium. They have shown their willingness to defend the Imperium against the taint of the Xeno, so they should require less guidance then your typical low level SM fresh out of indoctrination.
Each chapter would insure their lent member to be a top of the crop, hence little need for a chaplain to service the kill teams. IMO
crisaron said:
Each chapter would insure their lent member to be a top of the crop, hence little need for a chaplain to service the kill teams. IMO
Well, since a Space Marine needs to approval of his Company Captain (as proof of his martial might), Apothecaries (for proof of his health and fitness) and Chaplain (to consent that his spiritual well being is sufficient) before they even take his name to the Chapter Master as a possible recruit for the Deathwatch, they need to be at their physical, psychological and spiritual peak.
As the book says:
"To present a Battle-Brother not equal to the task would do great dishonour to the Chapter in question, and could have ramifications for entire worlds. Should a battle be lost because the warrior faltered at a crucial point, should a Watch Fortress be breached because a Battle-Brother was lax in his duties, or should a planet be abandoned because a Space Marine doubted that it could be held, then the fate of Mankind itself might be compromised."
Basically, if a Space Marine still needs a Chaplain to ensure his faith is strong and does not falter, he's not good enough for the Deathwatch.
There is *one* reference in the book to Deathwatch Chaplains, on page 282 - under "Removing Insanity Points", last sentence. "For a Battle-Brother this means long hours of prayer and the attention from the Deathwatch Chaplains as he contemplates his duty and service to the Imperium."
Jerry Rigg said:
There is *one* reference in the book to Deathwatch Chaplains, on page 282 - under "Removing Insanity Points", last sentence. "For a Battle-Brother this means long hours of prayer and the attention from the Deathwatch Chaplains as he contemplates his duty and service to the Imperium."
Nice find. Should be interesting to find out what it is meant to refer to.
Alexis
*smiles*
Jerry Rigg said:
[...] the Deathwatch Chaplains[...]"
From THE chaplain so there is only one!
crisaron said:
Jerry Rigg said:
[...] the Deathwatch Chaplains[...]"
From THE chaplain so there is only one!
Except for the fact that Chaplains is plural.
Reading comprehension is a necessary skill people.
ItsUncertainWho said:
crisaron said:
Jerry Rigg said:
[...] the Deathwatch Chaplains[...]"
From THE chaplain so there is only one!
Except for the fact that Chaplains is plural.
**** english I always get cougth...
ItsUncertainWho said:
Reading comprehension is a necessary skill people.
ESL people get a pass, I understand how difficult the English language is to learn. If your not ESL, read the quote.
It seems odd there wouldn't be Chaplains even in the Deathwatch. Merely because one has managed to become one of the best and not fall to corruption and uncertainty yet does not mean his will and faith are 100% unshakable. It is quite likely all of these Marines have relied on their individual chapter Chaplains on many occasions for spiritual guidance and assurance as one of the tools as their disposal. Considering Deathwatch is dealing with even more desperate situations it would seem a Chaplain would be as valuable and necessary as ever.
Personally I feel their overlooking a valuable roleplaying opportunity with PC Chaplains, but perhaps they have something in mind for that down the line. (or a specific reason why they left them out)
Jack of Tears said:
It seems odd there wouldn't be Chaplains even in the Deathwatch. Merely because one has managed to become one of the best and not fall to corruption and uncertainty yet does not mean his will and faith are 100% unshakable. It is quite likely all of these Marines have relied on their individual chapter Chaplains on many occasions for spiritual guidance and assurance as one of the tools as their disposal. Considering Deathwatch is dealing with even more desperate situations it would seem a Chaplain would be as valuable and necessary as ever.
Personally I feel their overlooking a valuable roleplaying opportunity with PC Chaplains, but perhaps they have something in mind for that down the line. (or a specific reason why they left them out)
They'll get included when they run out of better material to publish at the latest. ;-)
Alex
And, of course, one must not forget questioning the point or at least the representation of Chaplains in general!
Kage
Kage2020 said:
And, of course, one must not forget questioning the point or at least the representation of Chaplains in general!
Kage
Not quite sure what you're getting at that. In a totalitarian, theocratic, empire the role of a Chaplain should be one of honor, influence and import. Even Space Marines are at times tempted by the deceptions of Chaos and the Xenos and need someone to steer their uncertainty toward the light of the Emperor and his unwavering wisdom. Knights in crusade still speak to priests, pray at temples and ask for guidance, it is what makes a crusading knight different from a run of the mill soldier. (not saying the soldier might not do all those things, but it is an expected part of the knight's life)
A Chaplain of the Deathwatch would also be very valuable in helping Marines overcome some of the differences and frictions between the chapters - acting as a mediator and voice of reason at times. When the Ultramarine feels himself questioning whether he can trust the secretive Blood Angel he should have someone outside the rank structure he can go to and voice his concerns without making the matter an official complaint to a superior or the like.
The Chaplain could also fashion purity seals and similar objects to help cleanse or fight the impurity that comes from mere proximity to chaos and its servants.