Here's a question, though: Are not Chaplains much like "Veteran Marines?" They're something that aren't really basic characters... ?

Kage

Your not exactly a "basic marine" in the context of Deathwatch, it takes more than just surviving a battle to be seconded to the Deathwatch, and i would expect, being an extention of the Ordos Xenos, that Chaplains would be an important part of helping to maintain the beliefs of the others. Maybe we will get it in an expansion book

talsine said:

While I agree with the desire to see Chaplains included in the materials (there have indeed been a couple noted to have served), there comes a point where one must set aside much of their chapter's beliefs and peddle a condensed and homogenized version of dogma for those who are not part of their chapter.

Imagine a Wolf Priest giving counsel to a Black Templar. Or a Sanguinary Priest leading an Ultramarine in a prayer of absolution. It can happen, but there are some significant divergences within the expanded belief systems of the various Chapter Cults.

Still. I really want to see it happen.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I most heartily second that.

Talk about great potential RP material!

How about a Wolf Priest and a Sanguinary Priest debating the finer points of faith in the Imperium? I'll admit, like most Space Marine fans that i know of, i only really follow the major structures and beliefs ofmy favorite chapter, Blood Angels in this case, and only know the others in the broadest terms. Would be a great oppertunity for RP within a game that will tend towards a lot of heavy combat

talsine said:

I don't think the main problem would be between a Wolf Priest and a Sanguinary Priest. Both have a very primarch centered vision of the imperial faith, both came from very suspicious gene seed (inquisition keep an eye on these chapter, if not both...) and both primarch were in good term during the Horus heresy (there have been some frictions at the beginning, but fluff wise Sanguinus was in good term with most primarch). So, even if it look quite odd, i think that chaplain from both chapters are the most suited for a very polite and interesting theological debate.

Between a chaplain from Black Templar and a Sanguinus Priest or a Wolf Priest, this is another story.

I think there will be chaplain with faith based abilities like battle sisters or missionaries in the book. As there isn't any psyker / techmarine in the demo because of their special abilities, there isn't any chaplain for the same reasons. My opinion.

I don't think we'll be seeing Chaplains in the Deathwatch corebook, and I'm not sure they'll even be included in the future, given that there's been no evidence other than Goto's books (and most people here know how much he cared about the actual background of the setting) that Chaplains are ever sent off to the Deathwatch. I'm fairly sure that a Space Marine Chapter would want those who were promoted to tend to the faith of their Chapter Brothers to, you know... tend to the faith of their Chapter Brothers, rather than run off to the Deathwatch.

Stupid board software.

MILLANDSON said:

Cifer said:

Well this is debatable. Some sources imply that a scout hasn't recieved the full set of Astartes implants, gene treatments and psycho-indoctrination, meaning that once they attain Battle Brother status amongst their peers they would be unable to opt back into being a scout. From memory they also imply that scout sergeants are those that have opted to remain apart from their brothers in order to train their chapter's future recruits.

Personally, i agree with this sort of canon.

Kasatka said:

And it also depends on the chapter - for the space wolf, you must be a veteran to become a scout marine. You start out as brash bloodclaws, then enter the greyfangs, and from there normally either enter the longfangs or scouts - one can become an honor guard anytime along that time.

as it has been said before it doesn't work that way for some chapters i.e. space wolves.

Xalendar said:

For psychers, I agree.

But I always assumed that Tech Marine did start out as Scout (or whatever 'entry rank' their chapter has) and upon earning their Battle Brother status, if the Chapter is in need of more Tech Marines, those with a sharp mind and natural mechanical aptitude would be sent to Mars for training/implants. After all, Marines live a long time (They may even be immortal in the sense that they'll never die if not killed) so it's not like spending a 100 years on Mars learning stuff is a big deal. On top of that, their gene-enhanced body can probably easily survive the shock of getting implants.

Tarkand said:

Space Marines, to my knowledge, aren't immortal. They're just very long living. Of course, given the nature of combat, that matters little, given the average Marine will die way before old age catches up with them.

First off, as to carreers, any path can be justified. Scouts do serve in the deathwatch. Some marines, after decades of service, choose to serve as scout squad leaders for the upcoming stock of potential marines. This insures that they are ready for service as a tac marine.

As a Space Wolf, or Puppy player. I feel that chaplins should have a path in the game. I would see it as funny if a DA had to go to a SW for guidence in matters of faith. I could go on and on about what I would like to see in the game. For example, a SW and DA having rules to represent the friction between the two of their chapters. I could see them hating each other, or becoming comrades, that like to goed each other. But I do think that a Space wolf would never completely trust a DA, just like a DA should almost never trust an outsider, its in their natures.

A DA chap would almost never happen though. Too many secrets...they know too much...

And to leave this post on a light note.

Why do Dark Angels use Plasma Weapons so much?

A. They are Emo and the Emperor forbade them from cutting themselves.

If anyone has some good Space Wolf jokes lets hear it.

Ranek7212 said:

Which, in my mind, is exactly why Chaplains wouldn't join the Deathwatch, or at least wouldn't act in their capacity as a Chaplain (instead reverting back to whatever speciality he originally came from).

Well yes, That could be solved by saying that only the Smurfs could have the chaplins.

But on another note, I feel it would add to have a Smurf and a puppy working together, both come from opposite ends of the galaxy.

MILLANDSON said:

Well, they are functionaly immortal. They live long enough to Master whatever aspect of the art of war they are assigned and die in combat long before mortality, senility or infirmity become a problem.

Tarkand said:

Well, functionally unaging , and even that depends on which material you happen to give more credence to. Do you prefer the Horus Heresy and its unaging Marines? Soul Hunter (and others) that might confirm this but that also imply that 40k Marines are somehow "lesser" than their forebears? The earlier materials that had Marines ageing at around three centuries or so? The exceptions that we see with Marines like Dante, notwithstanding the tendency for powerful characters to be older, use bigger swords or other weaponry and, to use Gav Thorpe's turn of phrase, because they're just plain 'ard?

What is a fan to decide? Which version are they to go for?

Kage

I think it's safe to say that everyone, fan and authors alike, agree that the 41st millenium 2nd/3rd etc founding marines are no where near as awesome as their pre-heresy forebears.

The reason for this degeneration could be manifold, but does it overly matter? For once everyone is in agreement on an aspect of the 40k fluff!

Kasatka said:

That's odd. I'm pretty certain I don't agree, but maybe I'm wrong...

Atheosis said:

So what would you say makes the latter marines better than the former?

Kasatka said:

Check out the other 40k hobbyist forums. Other opinions have been expressed including, for example, that the Great Crusade Marines might be more "powerful" but hey have less training so that, ultimately, it balances out. It's rather a small pond here...

Kage

Kage2020 said:

Is that dependant of the chapter or 10k years of effectively cloning the geneseed (inbred a$$ marines)?

If you ask me what is more likely to be the difference is how long and glorious a history they have to live up to (and make stupid mistakes trying to emulate).

Face Eater said:

Yes.

No.

There isn't really an answer to this one, it would appear, so you've got to make up your own mind? A part of me rather likes the idea that the Space Marines are gradually being diluted, but at the same time trying to figure out how to represent one of the Great Crusade Marines in comparison to the already ludicrous 40k Marines...

Kage