Hey everybody,

Some folks have been messaging me with questions about the new 1.5 RRG and updated cards content and how certain card interactions work.

Thank you for that level of trust!

With all the Armada Devs having been layed off, and not knowing when AMG will start answering questions. All I can do is try my best to help.

Please feel free to either keep DMing me or drop your questions here. *

I'm in the process of getting the KARM updated with the new 1.5 info, but it likely won't be ready for another week to release. (Clone wars update for it will be more end of the month,or early next month.)

I'm just as excited to dig into all the new rules as everybody else.

*Please note, that nothing is officially endorsed by FFG, however I have Judged at GenCon 2019 and would of Judged alongside Brooks at Worlds 2020 and remain in active communication with Ian Cross (multiple armada Worlds Judge) as well as several other individuals (Such as Drasnighta) that are well-versed in the Armada rulebook. You can witness these communications on the Star Wars: Armada discord

I saw on one of the other postings something about how Engine techs used to be used for double ramming and how the new 1.5 updates stopped that by adding "if you overlap a ship exhaust this card".

I'm assuming the new statement refers to the original maneuver the ship makes, not the additional maneuver granted by engine techs?

So example: I execute my first maneuver and end overlapping a ship, I therefore exhaust Engine Tech card, now I am unable to make an additional maneuver with that card.

Is all this correct?

And another one; Demolisher.

Based on the new RRG clarification, "Demolisher only affects one of the ship’s
attacks. It must perform its other attack
during the Attack step of its activation or
that attack is forfeited."

1.)Does that mean I could choose to forfeit my first attack, maneuver, then complete my second attack?

2.)Or is it always attack-maneuver-(optional) attack again?

3.)Can I choose to not use the maneuver and just do two normal attacks?

Thanks in advance.

2. You shoot, move, shoot. Always.

22 hours ago, SithLrd88 said:

I saw on one of the other postings something about how Engine techs used to be used for double ramming and how the new 1.5 updates stopped that by adding "if you overlap a ship exhaust this card".

I'm assuming the new statement refers to the original maneuver the ship makes, not the additional maneuver granted by engine techs?

So example: I execute my first maneuver and end overlapping a ship, I therefore exhaust Engine Tech card, now I am unable to make an additional maneuver with that card.

Is all this correct?

Engine Techs:

"Navigation Command: After you execute a maneuver, you may exhaust this card to execute a speed-1 maneuver.

After you execute a maneuver, if you overlapped a ship, exhaust this card."

Yes, this refers to the initial maneuver the ship makes. Not the maneuver given by ET.

But this is saddening.
As we all know from "Effects use and Timing" a player can choose to resolve an effect in an order of their choosing when sharing the same timing.

Due to the fact that both effects use "after" it means you can simply choose to exhaust ET before being forced to exhaust ET due to a ship overlap.

THE INTENT of this card is CLEARLY that it is supposed to remove the ability to double ram a ship. However RAW is RAW.

The card SHOULD of read

"Navigation Command: After you execute a maneuver, you may exhaust this card to execute a speed-1 maneuver.

WHILE you execute a maneuver, if you overlapped a ship, exhaust this card."

The change to "while" places it as a timing before "after". And would completely fix the card. We can only hope this will be addressed by AMG at some point.

That said, as a judge, and with other judges this has been discussed with. We plan to force the INTENT of this card, not RAW.
Pretty much, don't be "that guy" that tries and play it the way it is clearly not meant to be played.

18 hours ago, SithLrd88 said:

And another one; Demolisher.

Based on the new RRG clarification, "Demolisher only affects one of the ship’s attacks. It must perform its other attack during the Attack step of its activation or that attack is forfeited."

1.)Does that mean I could choose to forfeit my first attack, maneuver, then complete my second attack?

2.)Or is it always attack-maneuver-(optional) attack again?

3.)Can I choose to not use the maneuver and just do two normal attacks?

Thanks in advance.

1) You never are forced to attack, they are optional. Yes, you can forgo to conduct an attack, move Demolisher, and make 1 attack after moving.
2) Attacks are ALWAYS optional. (Edit: Except an Ignition attack)
3) You do not choose. Demolisher reads in its initial wording "During your Attack Step, you can only perform 1 attack."

Every ship ALWAYS makes a maneuver, even at speed 0 per RRG.
So for Demolisher, it may Attack, "move" (even if its speed 0) and then may attack.

32 minutes ago, Karneck said:

Attacks are ALWAYS optional.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ignition attacks mandatory if u start your activitation with an ignition token on the field?

2 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ignition attacks mandatory if u start your activitation with an ignition token on the field?

Correct, good catch!
I did forget that an Ignition attack IS mandatory when a ship activates and another ship is in ignition range to be attacked. That attack is NOT optional.

1 hour ago, Karneck said:

3) You do not choose. Demolisher reads in its initial wording "During your Attack Step, you can only perform 1 attack."

Every ship ALWAYS makes a maneuver, even at speed 0 per RRG.
So for Demolisher, it may Attack, "move" (even if its speed 0) and then may attack.

It just clicked for me.

I wasn't thinking about it being a single attack step, a maneuver step, and then a new attack step.

I think that's where my confusion came from.

Thanks!

On 12/7/2020 at 3:32 AM, Karneck said:

As we all know from "Effects use and Timing" a player can choose to resolve an effect in an order of their choosing when sharing the same timing.

In the new RRG under “overlapping” (pg 14) it says:

—If a ship overlaps another ship while moving, it has not executed its maneuver until it resolves the effects of overlapping that other ship, including being dealt damage cards.—

Per this wouldn’t the ET have to exhaust before the maneuver is completed, making a double-ram impossible?

27 minutes ago, bkcammack said:

In the new RRG under “overlapping” (pg 14) it says:

—If a ship overlaps another ship while moving, it has not executed its maneuver until it resolves the effects of overlapping that other ship, including being dealt damage cards.—

Per this wouldn’t the ET have to exhaust before the maneuver is completed, making a double-ram impossible?

This just means that "while" effects, must be resolved before moving on to "after" effects. "While" effects include things like Ram damage, or mines. Or the Eclipse title on the SSD

As I have mentioned, the ET exhaust is in the "after" effect timing and that the card should of had "while" so that it would resolve in the appropriate timing as you have shown.

22 minutes ago, bkcammack said:

In the new RRG under “overlapping” (pg 14) it says:

—If a ship overlaps another ship while moving, it has not executed its maneuver until it resolves the effects of overlapping that other ship, including being dealt damage cards.—

Per this wouldn’t the ET have to exhaust before the maneuver is completed, making a double-ram impossible?

While exhausting Engine Techs is an effect of overlapping, it is an effect that specifically occurs after executing a maneuver.

If there weren't a card effect -> base rules hierarchy, the game would break here.

But ETs must (it would seem) break this base rule instead.

10 hours ago, bkcammack said:

In the new RRG under “overlapping” (pg 14) it says:

—If a ship overlaps another ship while moving, it has not executed its maneuver until it resolves the effects of overlapping that other ship, including being dealt damage cards.—

Per this wouldn’t the ET have to exhaust before the maneuver is completed, making a double-ram impossible?

It is actually far worse if you read the rules strictly. That RRG rule says that you don't finish executing your maneuver until you've resolved the effects of overlapping ships. New ET says that if you overlap a ship, after you execute your maneuver you exhaust it. Taking those two rules, exhausting ETs is an effect of overlapping ships. So you have to do that before you've finished executing your maneuver. But you don't do it until after you've executed your maneuver. So if you have a ship with ETs and it overlaps a ship, it can never finish executing its maneuver and gets stuck.

Which is another good reason to interpret the new ET rule as being a "while executing a maneuver" rather than an "after executing a maneuver" thing.

1.5 version of the Gunnery Team card.

My ISD-II with GTs has a CF token banked. I fire the first shot from the front arc at an MC80 and I wish to now shoot flak at 4 squadrons also from the front arc.

When do I spend the CF token?

1. On the first volley at the ship? I shoot the MC80 getting it to one hull so throw in the token to reroll a die and get the kill. Can I then do the flak shot?
2. On the first shot at a squadron of the second volley (even if I roll max damage).
3. On any shot at a squadron of the second volley (on the understanding that the CF token is discarded even if I roll max on all 4 shots - similar to Demolisher spending a nav token to remain at speed 3 just so it can also use ETs).

20 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

1.5 version of the Gunnery Team card.

My ISD-II with GTs has a CF token banked. I fire the first shot from the front arc at an MC80 and I wish to now shoot flak at 4 squadrons also from the front arc.

When do I spend the CF token?

1. On the first volley at the ship? I shoot the MC80 getting it to one hull so throw in the token to reroll a die and get the kill. Can I then do the flak shot?
2. On the first shot at a squadron of the second volley (even if I roll max damage).
3. On any shot at a squadron of the second volley (on the understanding that the CF token is discarded even if I roll max on all 4 shots - similar to Demolisher spending a nav token to remain at speed 3 just so it can also use ETs).

You must do it on the first volley, because if you don't, you won't be able to attack any squadron from the same hull zone as GT won't be triggered.

1 hour ago, Mad Cat said:

1.5 version of the Gunnery Team card.

My ISD-II with GTs has a CF token banked. I fire the first shot from the front arc at an MC80 and I wish to now shoot flak at 4 squadrons also from the front arc.

When do I spend the CF token?

1. On the first volley at the ship? I shoot the MC80 getting it to one hull so throw in the token to reroll a die and get the kill. Can I then do the flak shot?
2. On the first shot at a squadron of the second volley (even if I roll max damage).
3. On any shot at a squadron of the second volley (on the understanding that the CF token is discarded even if I roll max on all 4 shots - similar to Demolisher spending a nav token to remain at speed 3 just so it can also use ETs).

As mentioned, you need to resolve the Concentrate Fire Command on your first "attack" sequence * in order to "unlock" a second "attack" sequence from the same hullzone but not at the same targets.

*An Attack Sequence being, an attack made against a ship. Or an Attack against all squadrons in LoS/Arc/Range of the hullzone attacking.

2 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

On the first volley at the ship? I shoot the MC80 getting it to one hull so throw in the token to reroll a die and get the kill. Can I then do the flak shot?

Also remember that you don't have to reroll any dice. So if you had rolled enough dice to kill the MC80 and didn't want to reroll and risk reducing the damage, you can spend the CF token without actually using it.

"A ship can resolve a command and choose not to produce its effect. It still counts as resolving that command, such as for the purpose of triggering upgrade cards."

22 hours ago, Karneck said:

As mentioned, you need to resolve the Concentrate Fire Command on your first "attack" sequence * in order to "unlock" a second "attack" sequence from the same hullzone but not at the same targets.

This, I understand. But do you actually get to use the effect of the CF token (reroll) as you are spending it to unlock GT? I saw an old post from June where you had commented on a rules question " when you spend a token as part of the cost of a card Effect it does not also Grant the resolution of a command or other card effects."

Just want to be sure I've been using the "spend" action correctly.

29 minutes ago, SithLrd88 said:

But do you actually get to use the effect of the CF token (reroll) as you are spending it to unlock GT?

Yes. From the rules reference:

Quote

Effects with a command icon as a header, such as “[ ]” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command.

So Gunnery Team is triggered not when you spend a CF command token, but when you resolve a CF command. You are not spending the CF token to trigger GT, you are spending the CF token to resolve a CF command, and the CF command is triggering GT.

Going back to the rules:

Quote

A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time....

... Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.

So during the ship's activation, while attacking, during its "Resolve Attack Effects" step (so after the initial dice roll, before Defense Tokens) that ship can spend a CF Command Dial or Token (or both) to resolve a CF command. Resolving the command gives it options (adding a dice and/or rerolling a dice). It also triggers the Gunnery Team effect (the next attack can be performed from the same hull zone).

Spending is not the same as resolving . You Spend tokens, dials and so on, but you Resolve commands or upgrade card effects. Generally you spend a command dial or token to resolve a command, but you can also spend command tokens for other things (such as to trigger the Fleet Command upgrades), and in theory you could resolve a command without spending a dial or token (if an upgrade card allowed for it).

Grumbleduke is correct.

When you "spend" the CF dial or token for its intended purpose, for its command. You resolve that command.

When its "spend" it for another purpose, like fueling a card effect that requires you to spend such a token, like Intensify Firepower, its "spent" for that, but doesn't resolve a command.

Anything with the symbol of a command, means that command needs to be resolved or resolving in order to unlock and use. Like gunnery teams.

4 hours ago, Karneck said:

Anything with the symbol of a command, means that command needs to be resolved or resolving in order to unlock and use. Like gunnery teams.

So Mon Karen armed with Gunnery Teams can activate both those effects (and reroll a single die in the attack pool) by spending a CF token on its first shot?

But in contrast to this an ISD with ECM would need to discard a repair token to ready ECM and would not get 2 repair points when it did so.

13 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

So Mon Karen armed with Gunnery Teams can activate both those effects (and reroll a single die in the attack pool) by spending a CF token on its first shot?

But in contrast to this an ISD with ECM would need to discard a repair token to ready ECM and would not get 2 repair points when it did so.

Correct.

Similarily, if the MonKaren had Flag Bridge and Intensify Firepower! If it spent the token to fuel the Fleet Command, it would not get the reroll, or the Gunnery Team ability.

For the new clone wars cards:

Hypwerwave Signal Boost - so as read (and interpreted by CGYSO) it appears as though this card's only benefit is to let you activate squadrons up to your squadron value rather than only 2 in the squadron phase with the the AI part only working when you make an attack. But since that doesn't kick in unless you attack something and squadrons in the squadron phase can't move and attack that seems to imply the AI boost only works if you are attacking only. Given how reliant on squadron commanding the separatists are does this strike anyone else here as a misprint and that really squadrons activated by this card should get the full benefits of being commanded (move and/or attack)?

Swivel-Mount Batteries - the text on the card says to subtract one dice from adjacent arcs when attacking but since it doesn't specify ships it seems to suggest squadron attacks suffer as well (as interpreted by CGYSO) which strikes me as silly but that's what's said on the card. I'd be willing to bet this should read "when attacking a ship from an adjacent arc..."

Thoughts? What do people think the designer intent was with these cards? Would anyone happen to know?

21 minutes ago, Garrett17 said:

Given how reliant on squadron commanding the separatists are does this strike anyone else here as a misprint and that really squadrons activated by this card should get the full benefits of being commanded (move and/or attack)?

Definitely not RAW.

But if it seems underpowered, remember when you activate already engaged squadrons getting that extra squad and the AI boosts enables you to kill something that was otherwise going to want to kill you. +3 swarmable dice for 3 points is a dead Torrent that never got to shoot and looks reasonable compared to, say, Flight Controllers.

It's a competitive slot, though: if one wanted to make it work, Belbullabs can replace Boosted Comms, then FCT for positioning and a whole heap of generics can go to town?

That's 6-7 squads "pushed" by 1 Muni in a single round. Timing aside, not bad at all.

1 hour ago, Garrett17 said:

Given how reliant on squadron commanding the separatists are does this strike anyone else here as a misprint and that really squadrons activated by this card should get the full benefits of being commanded (move and/or attack)?

How reliant seps are on commanding squads is why it exists, and why it’s written the way it is. AI squads are under costed a little when commanded and over costed a bit when they aren’t. Hyperwave signal boost is, to me, a one time pass on having to command squadrons. Pay three points and you still get your full attack value. The downside is that they can’t move and attack. You also get to activate more squads than normal in one turn of the squadron phase. 3 points for some extra squad phase activations plus the “extra” AI dice is pretty cheap.

1 hour ago, Garrett17 said:

I'd be willing to bet this should read "when attacking a ship from an adjacent arc..."

Adding a black die into a long range shot (and that’s what this card will do most of the time) is extremely powerful. A confire dial lets you add a second black. That’s Commander Sato levels of black dice at long range, without needing a squadron nearby. The downside of that extra long range dice is that ALL adjacent attacks, including against squads, lose power. Otherwise you run into balance issues.