Just now, Ginkapo said:When the top cards are nerfed the poor cards become relatively better. Perhaps consider testing the new game before declaring everything to be awful?
I did not declare it awful. I declared it a wasted opportunity, as many others did. Time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm right and the leftover cards remain leftover cards.
I dont get the black dice brawler complaints.
MC30s roll 3 out the side. If OE wont cut it now, can you bank a CF token to get to reroll all 3?
Glads cant reroll all 4 or 5 black dice out the side? Maybe now is a chance to try that glad 2 that you maybe forgot existed and do something with that flak.
APT/ACM is exhaust now? How often were you procing it with all the anti-crit tech that is prevalent, i.e. Brunson, DCO? Still twice a turn? Against what kind of target? Are 2 APT shots necessary to take down a CR90, Nebulon, or Quasar? Fun? Yes. Necessary? No.
What good things happened to black dice brawlers, let's talk about that. Evades are usable at every range, something every black dice delivery man is equipped with. Commanders that are helpful for these ships (Mothma, Ozzel) have been boosted. Have fun trying those out.
All I'm saying is let's see what the summation of these parts are before we cry foul.
As far as binder fodder is concerned, a LOT of officers have caught my attention with the removal of SA and the added severity of token economy. That's just officers. Sure, some still look silly, but why throw the baby out with the bathwater at this point? Ion, turbolaser, ordnance, weapon teams, even titles look different given what we have found out.
I'd rather see what comes of this after a few months before giving the changes a failing grade.
For example I think Ion cannons batteries just became more relavent
21 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:For example I think Ion cannons batteries just became more relavent
Ssssssssshhhh
Just now, Ginkapo said:Ssssssssshhhh
Oh... a i mean.... Nothing to see here, Move along...
2 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:Ssssssssshhhh
It's not the last card that doesn't need to be exhausted, there is another
I agree with @EBerling and @Sybreed that FFG's goal with Clone Wars/Armada 1.5 seems to have been to make Armada "less radical" by nerfing black dice ships and changing the best, most popular upgrade cards, whereas the "binder fodder" cards have been completely ignored.
For example, what if anything will happen to Advanced Transponder Net ? That card was originally intended to counter the infamous Yavaris Bomber build, but it was introduced 2+ years too late and the META had already moved on, which is why it was rarely ever used (after the honeymoon phase of players just trying it out soon after release). FFG had to know that the change to Intel would render Advanced Transponder Net utterly useless. If FFG hasn't changed Advanced Transponder Net, it would be pointless to even include it in the UCC.
There are plenty of other examples of binder fodder cards that should have been changed : all Liaison Officers, Sensor Team, Engineering Team, Nav Team, NK-7, QTC, virtually all Def. Retrofits other than ECM (despite its revealed change), and roughly half of all ship titles. But we know from FFG that they've only changed 18% of the cards, which isn't nearly enough to fix the binder fodder.
Heavy turbolaser turret is still the same as well. Add another one to the fodder pile.
16 minutes ago, Sybreed said:Heavy turbolaser turret is still the same as well. Add another one to the fodder pile.
However advanced projectors has changed so its no longer a clear second to xi7s
37 minutes ago, Captain Corvid said:There are plenty of other examples of binder fodder cards that should have been changed : all Liaison Officers, Sensor Team, Engineering Team, Nav Team, NK-7, QTC, virtually all Def. Retrofits other than ECM (despite its revealed change), and roughly half of all ship titles.
I think your definition of binder fodder cards is way too radical. Point in question: QTC was nerfed in this update.
The changes in lots of admirals, in the activation game, in the evade tokens all make the black dice MSU more prominent (as it was before). I think it's obvious why they needed to nerf them, before they get out of control again.
Also, nerfing good cards is really a good way the make place for mediocre cards. For example, now it's really a tactical decision to choose ordenance, not just auto include exrax or apt in crit builds.
It gives way to more variety. Even if PDR sucks even more with the Evade changes.
29 minutes ago, PT106 said:I think your definition of binder fodder cards is way too radical. Point in question: QTC was nerfed in this update.
Doesnt dumpster fire use nav team?
There are no doubt going to continue to be cards that dont get used in competitive play. But let's zoom in on sensor team since you brought it up. What else is a weapons team? OE, GT, RS, C&S , all the boarding teams, WBT, Veteran Gunners, LFC, Flight Controllers, FCT, Varnillian. I mean, come on. Give designers a break. Sure, I wish Sensor Team worked differently, but getting 17 out of 18 weapons teams to be competitive is a dang impressive feat. I can see myself running literally any of those in a high performing fleet. And I bet, if I put my mind to it, I could make sensor team work too. Who knows, maybe with the ECM change, ST could see its stock rise as well.
6 minutes ago, FoxOmega44 said:But let's zoom in on sensor team since you brought it up.
I do believe that with all the latest changes Sensor Team is a competitive option and doesn't need to be changed.
14 minutes ago, PT106 said:I do believe that Sensor Team is a competitive option and doesn't need to be changed.
Ftfy
7 minutes ago, PT106 said:I do believe that with all the latest changes Sensor Team is a competitive option and doesn't need to be changed.
I've enjoyed my Romodi Onager with Sensor Team and no Quad Turbos. Seems even better now.
@PT106 the way I structured that reply I made it seem like you brought up sensor team. My bad haha.
But I completely agree. Could be really relevant soon. I think it already is in specific situations.
The very first spoilers of the upgrade card pack showed engineering captain at 6 points, so i think it was obvious from the start that this wasnt a root and branch revision of everything.
But be careful what you wish for. How much playtesting and development would a full card review for the entire game have taken to do properly? Your average wave might introduce 2 ships and maybe a dozen new upgrades that arent locked to the new ship (titles etc), and the developers focus can be on how the 'new' stuff interfaces to all the ecisting stuff as a fixed known quantity.
Now imagine that everything is now fluid, and they are trying to rebalance and test EVERYTHING VS EVERYTHING ELSE. I dont think anyone would be happy with the results. Too many things would slip through.
22 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:25 minutes ago, PT106 said:I do believe that after Onager introduction Sensor Team is a competitive option and doesn't need to be changed.
Ftfy
Ftfy
2 hours ago, PT106 said:I think your definition of binder fodder cards is way too radical. Point in question: QTC was nerfed in this update.
What's the nerf to QTC? It exhausts?
Is it still 10 points?
Because the cost has always been the biggest obstacle to using it. The only time I equip QTC is in combination with Jonus or H9. Without a guaranteed red accuracy, I'm not spending 10 points on QTC.
If QTC cost 6-8 points and exhausted, I'd be fine with that, as long as it auto-refreshed in the Status Phase.
If it requires a CF token to ready, it should be only 5 points and come with 1 CF token in its supply, like the Clone Officers.
Clone Gunners is 4 points and is similar to QTC, except it grants a blue accuracy for a CF token from a friendly ship. So reducing QTC from 10 points is entirely justified, even if it must be exhausted.
QTC is a modification now if I remember correctly. H9 as well I think.
2 minutes ago, Captain Corvid said:What's the nerf to QTC? It exhausts?
Is it still 10 points?
Because the cost has always been the biggest obstacle to using it. The only time I equip QTC is in combination with Jonus or H9. Without a guaranteed red accuracy, I'm not spending 10 points on QTC.
If QTC cost 6-8 points and exhausted, I'd be fine with that, as long as it auto-refreshed in the Status Phase.
If it requires a CF token to ready, it should be only 5 points and come with 1 CF token in its supply, like the Clone Officers.
Clone Gunners is 4 points and is similar to QTC, except it grants a blue accuracy for a CF token from a friendly ship. So reducing QTC from 10 points is entirely justified, even if it must be exhausted.
I think it got modification added to it along with H9s. I don't remember if there was a point change though
14 minutes ago, Xeletor said:QTC is a modification now if I remember correctly. H9 as well I think.
Oh. So goodbye to Liberties with Auto 2 Accuracies. Too bad, i liked that combo. But it was probably a little op, even though costly.
Edited by >kkj1 hour ago, Ophion said:The very first spoilers of the upgrade card pack showed engineering captain at 6 points, so i think it was obvious from the start that this wasnt a root and branch revision of everything.
But be careful what you wish for. How much playtesting and development would a full card review for the entire game have taken to do properly? Your average wave might introduce 2 ships and maybe a dozen new upgrades that arent locked to the new ship (titles etc), and the developers focus can be on how the 'new' stuff interfaces to all the ecisting stuff as a fixed known quantity.
Now imagine that everything is now fluid, and they are trying to rebalance and test EVERYTHING VS EVERYTHING ELSE. I dont think anyone would be happy with the results. Too many things would slip through.
I think this is very valid.
1 minute ago, EagleScoutof007 said:I think it got modification added to it along with H9s. I don't remember if there was a point change though
That's lame. I don't see how equipping certain types of turbolasers (or ion cannons) should be classified as a Modification while other types don't.
Enhanced Armament and Spinal Armament make sense as Modifications because more weapons are being added to the ship's hull, hence a modification. But equipping a H9 Turbolaser or XI7 Turbolaser or XX-9 Turbolaser isn't a "modification" to the ship, which is why they weren't Modifications. But if H9 and QTC become Modifications, more than half of Turbolaser cards will be Mods -- and Swivel-Mount Batteries is also a Mod.
Basically, if you equip the Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam, you're screwing yourself out of Turbolasers.
I think Modification on so many Turbolasers would be acceptable if PQ7 Tractor Beam wasn't a Mod. I understand why FFG doesn't want the most powerful Turbolaser, Ion Cannon, Ordnance, and Super Weapons to be equipped on the same ship because they'd be OP'd, so Mod only permits one. But why make PQ7 Tractor Beams a Mod too? Most ships in Star Wars, including virtually every large warship, are equipped with tractor beams by default, so it doesn't make sense that it's a Mod.
I'd prefer if Mod was removed from PQ7 Tractor Beams and its points cost was increased or it required a token to refresh. It's not like PQ7 can reduce a ship to Speed 0 like the Starhawk's MCTBA can, so I think it would be fine if it could be used in combination with a Turbolaser Mod.
1 minute ago, Captain Corvid said:I don't see how equipping certain types of turbolasers (or ion cannons) should be classified as a Modification while other types don't.
Previously QTC was the only upgrade adding a die outright that wasn't a modification. (I'm aware on Clone gunners, however this card is ship restricted, which makes balancing it easier)