4 minutes ago, Wolf_58 said:

not really just no guaranteed acc and with H9. Does a Conf dial a token work with Ignition? (don't have onager) And WBT does make 2 blue get a 75% crit chance.

The combo was more for SCBTs. Flip any non-blank into a crit to guarantee an extra damage, also had Fire-Control Teams so I could SCBT and Sunder early on, and SCBT/standard crit once it hits the hull. ConFire still works with Igntion.

10 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

There's still Sensor Team and GCV.

I'll probably stick with Gunny V/Veteran Gunners now, probably with OBPCs and LTTs instead. I don't think Sensor Team works well in the build for anything but getting off Sunder unless I get blanks often.

6 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Did anyone report on any Independence changes yet?

I asked, its staying the same.

For Independence Remember the squad changes, and scout at lest warrant a relook at the card. I am relooking at all cards just for the fun of it.

Black dice got nerfed badly with all these changes. Not much point to get into close range now.

And no buff for card like NK-7s. Al they did was nerfing strong cards. This is very disappointing because it diminishes the importance of strategy and increases the role of pure chance. Very bad for a strategy game.

My thoughts...

Konstantine - Including non flotilla small ships as one of your qualifying ships is a good improvement. You can even use an SSD now as one of your medium or larger qualifying ships too (not that many people will). I also like that if the enemy are already speed 1 one and you don't want to speed them up you can take away a nav token instead. Overall I still think he is below average but there are increased fleet design options so we may see him more often. Instead of ISD + 2 VSDs we may see Cymoon and 4 Arquitens for example to keep opponents slow and pile on the red dice.

Ozzel - Instead of changing speed by two you now get a free speed change and can put any command on top of that (including a nav to get the old effect). Grav well made you speed zero and you have a nav raid token from Surprise Attack ? Ozzel can save your flagship's bacon. He could become a decent carrier admiral letting ISD-1 and Quasars to Squadron constantly while Ozzel lets them change speed each turn. More flexible and better but for 8 more points Tarkin gives you the same effect and can hand out different flavored commands on various turns.

Garm - I've always liked him since Ahsoka arrived and tokens can doo more with certain upgrades needing them to refresh. raid tokens are becoming more common (Dukku) and Garm laughs these off easily. Choosing turns depends on your average ship command value and the intensity of combat. I'll probably still go 1&5 or 1&4.

Tagge - Choosing both of your defense token turns is a nice boost but I still don't rate him too highly. Equipping Salvo to your ships and thrashing them as much as possible could be nasty.

Tarkin - Tokens now have more uses and he is becoming cheaper. Smashing.

Mon Mothma - nice points drop and the extra dice effected at close range and if the enemy ship is larger you can get even more. The main hurt to her fleets is the ACM/APT/OE changes which moderates her source of intense damage output.

Demolisher - Its main change is on the turn after you make your dive into close range and hit the enemy with 4 black dice. Next turn you can double arc him but you may have to slow down or even ram him to get the second shot in.

Avenger - No longer an auto include on Sloane lists. I don't really see the point anymore. Brush off Relentless and a SFO.

Admonition - Upset by this change, well it is still the equivalent of 4xBrunson for 1/6th of the cost.

Mon Karren - I didn't see the need for this change. the 8 point cost was discouragement enough.

Yavaris - It is still good but no longer fantastic. If the enemy have counter(2) you would have taken it twice under the old rules so there's a perk.

Slicer Tools - Flotillas can easily bank a repair turn one to let you get 2 uses from the slicer tool. I suppose Quantum Storm may feel the strain on occasion to slice on the extra speed 1 move. Hardcells can also take Slicers and they have a brace so this is probably more for them.

OE/ACM/APT/External racks - I think these go too far when combined together. MSU lists will suffer especially with the pass tokens. Armada is turning into a red die game I fear. Still at least Screed works the same number of times as ACMs now so you could not bother with OE. 2 rerolls however should be plenty for most black die volleys but Sato MC75 ACM+E-Rax may long for the old times on a bad dice day. OE is still great for black die flak.

ECM - Large ships need to bank one repair token somehow. Medium ships can probably do without as they should die soon of they are taking that much of a battering as to need ECM several times.

DTTs - Could have gone down to 4 points I think.

H9/QTCs - Modification to hamper them being used together on Cymoon, Liberty and SSDs. Remember we also don't know what the Clone Wars larger ships may be getting in the next few waves.

XI7s - Fine makes APs useful and Foresight a little better.

Engine Techs - Agree with this although I never really experienced double ramming.

Brunson - Gone a little too far I think but compared to Derlin I can see the logic. I will still use her but only on special occasions rather than an auto include.

13 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Admonition - Upset by this change, well it is still the equivalent of 4xBrunson for 1/6th of the cost.

I really don't see the hate on this one. Turtle-monition lists were infuriating to play against, the ship could tank an SSD's fully concentrated attack without any concern. You could built it to utterly-ridiculous levels of defense, far beyond its point value.

And like Demolisher, it was effectively stapled to the ship. You are bringing one MC30? Well it's Admonition, obviously .

Breaking up the 'this card is stapled to this other card because they are so overpowered together and no other combinations come close' combo sets is a good thing for the game, IMHO!

2 hours ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

>Gunnery Team

No more triple attacks from an SSD. It'll still be a large/huge staple, but maybe a bit less of a default weapons team if you don't have the token economy to constantly use it.

Can someone help me understand this? As written ( The next a ttack you perform this activation can be performed from this hull z on e ), I don’t see how the re-worded card prevents triple attacks from the same hull zone (against different targets).

Is the implication because it now requires a command? So it’s still possible, simply less likely? Or am I missing something?

Thanks!

I for one welcome all of the changes. There are lots of them. Not sure what folks wanted cuz that is a lot of work that happened right there.

List building got a lot more exciting!

5 hours ago, Triangular said:

Here an overview about the changes I know.

So - is this pack really ONLY upgrade cards, or does it include any cardboard at all?

IE., for example (Commander) Agate, or (gunnery team) Local Fire Control, that could require additional defense tokens...are these provided, or no?

8 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Is the implication because it now requires a command? So it’s still possible, simply less likely? Or am I missing something?

Well, it's not 'less likely', it's impossible. You can only resolve any given command once a turn, regardless of how many tokens or dials you have for it. So with 3 attacks from a 'huge' ship, it can pick one of those (and only one) to resolve a CF command in, and the next attack can be from the hull zone that ONE attack was from. The third attack - whether before or after that one - must be from a different hull zone, as you cannot resolve a CF again that turn.

EDIT: Actually, thinking about this...with the rewording on this upgrade, it no longer directly conflicts with 'Advanced Gunnery'? So maybe, via 'Advanced Gunnery', you can still perform 3 attacks from the same hull zone?

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

I for one welcome all of the changes. There are lots of them. Not sure what folks wanted cuz that is a lot of work that happened right there.

List building got a lot more exciting!

we wanted the bad cards to stop being bad. They're still bad.

6 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Can someone help me understand this? As written ( The next a ttack you perform this activation can be performed from this hull z on e ), I don’t see how the re-worded card prevents triple attacks from the same hull zone (against different targets).

Is the implication because it now requires a command? So it’s still possible, simply less likely? Or am I missing something?

Thanks!

You are not allowed to attack from the same hull zone during your activation. This card now allows the next attack to be declared from the same (this) hull zone IF you spent a Concentrate Fire command during this attack.

You are only allowed to do one Concentrate Fire command during your activation.

Combined that means only two attacks from the same hull zone.

(ninja'd by @xanderf )

24 minutes ago, xanderf said:

So - is this pack really ONLY upgrade cards, or does it include any cardboard at all?

IE., for example (Commander) Agate, or (gunnery team) Local Fire Control, that could require additional defense tokens...are these provided, or no?

There are some tokens in the pack like Raid and Chaff tokens.

(2 Focus/Chaff, 6 Proximity Mines, 8 Raid Tokens)

So I found some time to dive in to the news.

As an Imperial MSU lists addicted player I found that meta before CW is not healthy for MSU.

I played alot with MSU (for now I own 9 small imperial ships excluding gozanti in my collection) and was so excited about news with evade working on short range. This is main issue where MSU in my opinion get hit hard and this is range where they can do most damage. Wow excelent, now this list had some chance to get to the cut (on last Polish Nationals I played I ended with 5-6,5-6,6-5,6-5,5-6). But i was struck with point rise in External Rack, APT/CM exhaust. Ok we may live with this. Some cuts in points. Now I read about OE Nerf..

I dont evean touch pass tokens topic as this is bullet in the head of this lists (i wrote two version of this mechanism. One that you get amount of difference in pass tokens for whole game- fine it give MSU some chance to reduce activation advantage. Second crush whole idea of MSU list.)

I'm so frustrated..

Im really happy with everything here so far.

I feel the intent has been to damp down the worst of the auto kill toys - avenger, yavaris, demot and some of the most ubiquitous cards.

I think if you look at impact on current meta, thats one thing, but the main reason is to create room in the game for the new factions to grow without being stomped on or needing their own op gimmicky stuff to compensate.

I think these changes overall are good for the game. Yes, some things didn't get changed that maybe should have. They brought some of the "staple" card down to the level of other cards in their respective card slots. They also seem to be preventing the stacking effect of some card options. Demolisher, Engine Techs, APT for example. When one combination is the only one that is worth taking and all other options are completely unused, there is a problem. I would rather have some things nerfed then have an all powerful combo that makes all other combos inferior.

Lots of good stuff, but for me definitely a missed opportunity to revitalise some of the 'never used' cards...

Do flotillas count as ships for Engine Tech exhaust? Asking for a friend...

1 hour ago, NairoD said:

So I found some time to dive in to the news.

As an Imperial MSU lists addicted player I found that meta before CW is not healthy for MSU.

I played alot with MSU (for now I own 9 small imperial ships excluding gozanti in my collection) and was so excited about news with evade working on short range. This is main issue where MSU in my opinion get hit hard and this is range where they can do most damage. Wow excelent, now this list had some chance to get to the cut (on last Polish Nationals I played I ended with 5-6,5-6,6-5,6-5,5-6). But i was struck with point rise in External Rack, APT/CM exhaust. Ok we may live with this. Some cuts in points. Now I read about OE Nerf..

I dont evean touch pass tokens topic as this is bullet in the head of this lists (i wrote two version of this mechanism. One that you get amount of difference in pass tokens for whole game- fine it give MSU some chance to reduce activation advantage. Second crush whole idea of MSU list.)

I'm so frustrated..

MSU is fine with these changes. It cant last first on one turn if all the tokens are used that turn but otherwise its solid.

Just now, LTD said:

Do flotillas count as ships for Engine Tech exhaust? Asking for a friend...

Yes

Thanks @xanderf and @Triangular — I was overlooking the single command resolution.

I've been away too long and don't get half of this but, lol, Demolisher is now unplayable. It should have been a choice. Shoot twice or once after movement.

1 minute ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

I've been away too long and don't get half of this but, lol, Demolisher is now unplayable. It should have been a choice. Shoot twice or once after movement.

It's a very minor nerf, and hardly makes it unplayable. You now get to shoot once, move, and then have the second shot. It means you have to make a choice between flying away safely or staying around to get your second shot into the target.

1 hour ago, Formynder4 said:

It's a very minor nerf, and hardly makes it unplayable. You now get to shoot once, move, and then have the second shot. It means you have to make a choice between flying away safely or staying around to get your second shot into the target.

It appears that you now only get to shoot once (before or after movement):

During your Attack step, you can perform only 1 attack. You can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute your first maneuver during your activation.

20 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

It appears that you now only get to shoot once (before or after movement):

During your Attack step, you can perform only 1 attack. You can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute your first maneuver during your activation.

The attack step happens before the maneuver step. That's all that phrase means.

18 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

During your Attack step, you can perform only 1 attack. You can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute your first maneuver during your activation.

The "Attack step" is part of a ship's activation; the ship goes through the Reveal Command Dial step, Attack step and Execute Maneuver Step. This change means Demolisher can only attack once during the attack step , but it can still attack during the (or after) the Execute Maneuver Step. The Attack step is not an attack; a ship can attack during its Attack step, but can also attack at other times (e.g. Salvo, or Counter attacks).

This change just means Demolisher can't do its two normal attacks; but it can do one normal attack and then the special Demo attack.