FAQ:

• From a setting standpoint, such a career transition is highly unusual. Leaving an established Empire Cult or the Colleges of Magic would meet with suspicion, questions, and possibly persecution. A wizard leaving the sanctioned and approved Colleges of Magic could well be branded a hedge wizard, sorceror, or dangerous ren- egade and find himself targetted by zealous Witch Hunters.

So, if my Wizard goes crazy and wants to become a Zealot of Sigmar, and eventually a Witch Hunter, he will be targeted by zealous Witch Hunters?

Well, it just says 'could well be.' The colleges have a bit of an uneasy relationship with the witch hunters, so I imagine that sort of change might ring some alarm bells within the guy's old college, and they might keep an eye on him, or wonder exactly why he has turned. So that could lead to its own interesting sub plots.

Well, really, WHFRP is YOUR game, you can do whatever suits your fancy (or at the least, whatever you group agrees with).

As per RAW, wizards aren't supposed to be able to leave their order. However, it is stated in the Tome of Magic that people that don't become wizards do something else but still serves the order. I guess you could accept a twist where a wizard leaves the wizard career to become something else, but is still under the service of his order. Why not?

As for priest, I'm not sure. I don't reacall reading something that priest are bound the same way as the wizards.

Yeah, I know we can change what we want in the game's setting, but I'd like to have a firm grasp on what it's "supposed" to be like before I go suggesting changes.

Thanks.

Nifft said:

Well, if you see it that way, yes, a wizard leaving his order WILL be hunted down (not by Witch Hunters though (well, not at first at the least), but by other mages of his (former) order) and putted to death (most probably).

If you want a more "official" answer, look on p.14 of Tome of Mysteries, under Discipline. You can read about renegade wizards.

But I guess if a wizard makes the decision by himself to go for another career while still serving the order, it could be tolerate (though he will need very good explanations when I'll be brought in front of the Wizard Lords).

This issue also concerns how literally your game takes the whole concept of 'career transition'. To what extent does the PC advancement game mechanics intrude into the perception of the characters?

For instance a Wizard Apprentice might have been told to gain a years 'field experience' before returning for further training. The way the system works he might complete his Apprentice career within a month of a campaign. What does the player do with advancements then? Spend all further advances on non-career, transition to Acolyte without returning to college, or pick a career that fits with the circumstances of the campaign?

So if the Apprentice transitions to say Scholar, does the character need to take off his college robe and symbols, burn them and declare to the world his renunciation of his college oaths? I don’t think so but others appear to differ. So imo transitioning to Scholar doesn’t require the character to leave his college or even stop thinking of himself as a Wizard first and foremost. He is simply using this time outside college in expanding his academic knowledge and skills – which are very important to a wizard.

I also cannot see how this 'career transition' vs non-career advances could be plausibility perceptible to others. So I find the idea of college masters effectively examining a character sheet and objecting to the character's career transition as ridiculous. Again others beg to differ.

Fresnel said:

They don't need to look at a character sheet, any more. That's the genius of the new Career sheet. Characters can carry around a single, convenient A6 pocket-sized handout. And the illustration means the examiner doesn't even have to have Read/Write.

I was imagining something more like:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

However, since Reiklanders are 'Adaptable' and prior careers are always considered compatible, so returning to Wizard Apprentice costs 0 advances. He can therefore swap back when he sees his masters - for maximum meta-gaming cheesiness.

Silverwave said:

That's hardly an answer, though, since it refers to no game mechanics.

Unless I missed something that says changing your Career card = leaving your College?

Fresnel said:

Exactly. Scholar / Student / Scribe could be a decent fit for any Wizard, and Thief or Scout might match a Grey Wizard well, while it seems to me that Zealot actually lines up nicely for a Bright Wizard.

WFRP3 is currently fairly light on background, but if you look to WFRP2 there are problems with your suggestion.

Some colleges have very good relationships with cults. The Amethyst college is very close to the Cult of Morr. However, even Amethyst wizard are not devout. According to the WFRP2 Realms of Sorcery wizards trend a fine line, they are respectful of the cults but do not devoutly worship. It appears that this is part of adherence to Teclisian methods.

So a Zealot/Wizard is probably impossible canonically. I am sure a Wizard/Initiate is 100% out of canon. Also the cults of Sigmar and Ulric are very anti-magic. They believe the establishment of the colleges was a mistake and that all wizards are damned and very dangerous.

If a wizard did renounce magic and take up a devout life it might be possible. The cult elders would be both pleased that a wizard had seen the light and very suspicious. They might ask him to conduct many probably fatal trials to prove his faith. Should he miraculously survive, he might be accepted but he would never be trusted. Basically they would be forever watchful for his corruption. The character is now living under 24/7 surveillance.

The primary reason the colleges monitor the lives of wizards is to ensure that if they fall to corruption, the college can take action. If the ex-wizard truly renounces magic, the college doesn’t need to stress. They will continue to keep an eye on him for any hint of corruption. Assuming he never shows any the college should leave him be – there is no logical or legal reason to interfere at least.

I'd say that if you checked the Dedication box (and thus get to keep your Wizard-order card) you can safely add another career if it fits the story.Battle wizards going into the soldier career for example would be no problem if I was the GM. As long as they (and everyone around) them view them as Wizards.

Maby I would rule that since the character focuses on something else than "wizarding" he/she can't learn new spells untill the character goes into a spellcasting career.

Nifft said:

What it's supposed to be like is exactly what works best for you and your group. WFRP canon has changed quite a bit over the years. What seems written in stone now, didn't even exist when I started playing WFRP. Canon is just a big bag if suggestions from which to pick and choose the bits that work for you.

If you want players to be completely unable to switch from a spellcasting career to a non-spellcasting career, then rule so. If you want to allow the possibility but persecute them for it, then do so. If you want to allow them to change and only persecute them when they break their loyalty to the college, then do that. If you only want to persecute them when they're actually seen dabbling in illegal magic, then do that. (I'm leaning towards these last two options.) And if you want to ignore colleges completely and pretend Teclis never existed, you're free to do that too. They certainly didn't exist when I did most of my WFRP roleplaying.

mcv said:

That's a good summary. However, many people wish to play 'close' to canon and so want to know what the canon position is. If an issue is ambiguous like this one it can generate a lot of stress within a group – which is never welcome imo.

Canon is set by the current Line Editor and he has made an answer in the FAQ that relates directly to this issue. Unfortunately this answer takes a hard-line literal view of careers.

Q: Career Transitions: Leaving a “Casting” Career
A: … From a setting standpoint, such a career transition is highly unusual. Leaving an established Empire Cult or the Colleges of Magic would meet with suspicion, questions, and possibly persecution. A wizard leaving the sanctioned and approved Colleges of Magic could well be branded a hedge wizard, sorceror, or dangerous renegade and find himself targetted by zealous Witch Hunters.

The answer clearly assumes moving to a non-casting career = leaving/resigning from the character’s cult or college. Unfortunately this rigid vision of careers is not explicit in core rulebook. In fact the core rulebook in generally very liberal with respect to advances/careers. As I (and others) find a rigid view of careers conceptually problematic and impractical (if broadly applied) within the game, we are not inclined to adopt it based on one FAQ statement.

Fresnel said:

There's some bits in The Winds of Magic that makes it clear that wizards can pursue non-magical careers without being considered to have left their College.

monkeylite said:

That's good to know.

Thanks, N

Fresnel said:

I wouldn't say impossible, anymore than it is possible to have a religious scientist in the real world. A wizard who remains faithful might find life in the colleges difficult. The teachings of his order combined with the lack of respect the other wizards have for his faith might make him ever-more fanatical - and hence turn him into a zealot.

macd21 said:

The analogy of a real world scientist isn't a good one imo. Wizards are not scientists, they are mystics who can perceive and manipulate the Aetheric world. They are prime targets for chaos corruption.

Realms of Sorcery is the source I based my opinion on. In this book being a college wizard involved adherence to Teclis's mental disciplines as well the mental effects of manipulating a single wind. If I recall correctly, worshiping in a normal human manner is dangerous to a college wizard. For a college wizard to become a Zealot probably requires him to abandon his mental disciplines - designed to insulate him from corruption.

So sending his devout prayers into the Aether, ignoring the warnings of his teachers and mental shields they equipped him with, is very unwise. Doing so might/would attract the attention of Aetheric beings. If a wizard started to receive visions, how could he tell if they were not sent by the ruinous powers? If he ignores a true vision he is damned, if he heeds a false one he is damned... This problem is best avoided.

So, I think I am going to revise my position and say any wizard pursuing a devout life is in dire peril of corruption. He is a walking disaster waiting to happen…