The Mystic>Seer talen forewarning has just been taken by one of my players and I have questions. I understand what it does but not when it can be activated. Must the player wait for combat to begin so that they can take an action to use the talent? If so then it would only affect those later than them in the initiative order. OR can it be used in advance of a combat, such as when the PCs are preparing an ambush, about to kick off in a fight or upon entering a scary area where they think there might be trouble. If so, how long does it last?

I'm kind of thinking that you need to be in combat to make it work. It's quite powerful and you won't get to affect the whole party all the time unless you have an outrageous initiative roll so that will be the counter balance.

Also, theres very little text around how long it would last and out of combat use which indicates that it can't be triggered in advance.

Thoughts?

24 minutes ago, Gribble_the_Munchkin said:

The Mystic>Seer talen forewarning has just been taken by one of my players and I have questions. I understand what it does but not when it can be activated. Must the player wait for combat to begin so that they can take an action to use the talent? If so then it would only affect those later than them in the initiative order. OR can it be used in advance of a combat, such as when the PCs are preparing an ambush, about to kick off in a fight or upon entering a scary area where they think there might be trouble. If so, how long does it last?

I'm kind of thinking that you need to be in combat to make it work. It's quite powerful and you won't get to affect the whole party all the time unless you have an outrageous initiative roll so that will be the counter balance.

Also, theres very little text around how long it would last and out of combat use which indicates that it can't be triggered in advance.

Thoughts?

I think you're right, and it has to happen on your turn.

Honestly, it's not that useful a talent. The Defense buff is decent, but it only lasts until the character acts. In a PC-NPC-PC-NPC-PC-NPC-NPC setup (which is fairly common in my experience) you use the first slot to trigger it, then the NPC gets a turn with a 66% chance of targeting a PC that has the buff (of course, it's debatable as to who they'll attack and why, but roll with it). Then another PC goes, losing the bonus, and then an NPC with a now 33% chance of targeting a PC that still has the buff.

And that's if the PCs don't eliminate the soonest-acting NPCs, wiping them out of the initiative order. In the above situation, it's likely going to come into play once if at all.

And by the time the PC has a high enough FR that the buff is likely to affect much of anything, it's likely stacking with allies' Defense and getting cut off at the cap and allies will have good enough Initiative that they'll hardly get to use the buff.

Of course, it is a situationally useful talent and in the case of an initiative order that's really stacked against you, it may be worth it. However, giving up an Action for it is a pretty big deal, especially at the start of a round.

Its one I house ruled to make more effective/sense than the written text.

8 hours ago, Luahk said:

Its one I house ruled to make more effective/sense than the written text.

What did you do to it?

I'd consider making it a Passive.

It looks very useful at low-levels, before everyone has the chance to max out their ranged and melee defense values. Especially if you have taken both ranks of Uncanny Reactions and had ranks in Vigilance (so you are more likely to go before the whole party).

Looks fine as-is, the player running Seer just needs to understand that they need to invest into it, in order to get maximum benefit.

17 hours ago, Gribble_the_Munchkin said:

... you won't get to affect the whole party all the time unless you have an outrageous initiative roll so that will be the counter balance.

40 minutes ago, SuperWookie said:

Especially if you have taken both ranks of Uncanny Reactions and had ranks in Vigilance (so you are more likely to go before the whole party).

I'm confused.

This game doesn't have individual initiative slots, just PC and NPC initiative slots. Even if the Seer rolled the worst initiative of the entire party, he should still be able to act before all other party members if there's a good reason.

FaD rulebook (pg 204) is saying the results of each player's roll makes a player slot in the Initiative order, and nothing about grouping them all as a whole.

EDIT: It does mention that players can fill the slot orders as they wish though. It would still help to have the Seer invested and be the first one to act.

44 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

This game doesn't have individual initiative slots, just PC and NPC initiative slots. Even if the Seer rolled the worst initiative of the entire party, he should still be able to act before all other party members if there's a good reason.

Some people run it as individual slots or individual slots with occasional interchange. It makes things simpler in certain regards.

Besides, if the Seer can consistently roll the best Initiative, they don't rely on having an ally rolling really good initiative.

On 11/17/2020 at 1:56 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

What did you do to it?

I'd consider making it a Passive.

Making it a passive is a good idea i'll speak to one of my fellow DMs about.

We have it so it effects your character as well and that you can trigger it outside of combat but that it has a narrative time limit.

I prefer your passive idea as it makes it more akin to a spidey sense which is just better. Not enough of the seer tree actually makes you prophetic its just you react better.

Just now, Luahk said:

I prefer your passive idea as it makes it more akin to a spidey sense which is just better. Not enough of the seer tree actually makes you prophetic its just you react better.

The reacting better is supposed to basically spidey-sense. You're harder to hit because you have a degree of forewarning, or you act faster because you realize what is going on sooner, etc.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The reacting better is supposed to basically spidey-sense. You're harder to hit because you have a degree of forewarning, or you act faster because you realize what is going on sooner, etc.

I do get that its just lacking in enough stuff versus other tree. It feels quite bland as a tree to me versus many others.

I'll definitely run forewarning as said above in the future.

Some collections of trees make it really easy to be an initiative machine. Force Sensitive Exile plus Seer gives up to 4 ranks of Uncanny Reactions. Foresee adds Force dice to your initiative check. As someone with FR4 and both trees, plus a small investment in Vigilance ranks, my guy pretty much always locks up the top initiative slot (and sometimes slots). Being able to give additional successes via Foresee to your teammates makes it easy to go first, which actually makes Forewarning less valuable.