Say you Overdrive a 2 hard SLAM with Poe, making you use a template 1 speed higher. Is it still a 2 speed maneuver? The OT do not say that you are executing a maneuver 1 speed higher, only that you are using a different template. Would R4 make this blue?
SLAM is a maneuver.... just leaving aside OT and R4 for a sec and just focusing on the new SLAM rules....
If Poe SLAMS a blue maneuver as his second action..... it should clear stress?? Or does the stress come after the SLAM? 🤷♂️
Edited by JBFancourt
wow. nice find!
it shouldn't matter in 99,99% of cases, since you would be stressed after the fact anyway - and you cannot perform actions while stressed. still a good question, though.
overdrive thrusters is very strangely worded, since it doesn't even say it alters the speed of a maneuver when you slam, only the template used. as far as i can tell when browsing through places containing the words "speed" and "difficulty" in the rules reference, as well as reading about slam, the answer is not clear.
how ever, i'm going to go ahead and say that since you use a template that is 1 speed higher, the speed of the maneuver changes. thus, R4:s change of difficulty should not apply if you're executing a basic maneuver that is faster than speed 2.
that's just my opinion, though.
just for clarification: you gain stress from performing a red action after the action is performed. gaining stress from a red maneuver or loosing stress from a blue maneuver is part of the check difficulty step of executing a maneuver. executing a maneuver is part of the slam action, so you'd still be stressed from performing a red slam action even if you performed a blue maneuver with that slam action.
I'd agree that R4 Astromech changes the difficulty of the maneuver that is actually being executed. This is precisely how people were abusing the Cova Nell/R4/Leia situation, by dialing red, NOT using Leia, and using R4 to turn the 2-straight stress maneuver from white to blue. It's one reason why the rules were changed to PREVENT stress moves from being changed by R4.
As far as stress goes, though, I'd also agree that the red SLAM stress lands AFTER the completion of the maneuver. That means a blue maneuver would not be able to remove the stress from the SLAM, specifically.
12 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:This is precisely how people were abusing the Cova Nell/R4/Leia situation, by dialing red, NOT using Leia, and using R4 to turn the 2-straight stress maneuver from white to blue. It's one reason why the rules were changed to PREVENT stress moves from being changed by R4.
🤦♂️ Not what they did... They made R4 astromech (Nien crew and L337 config/pilot(both) as well) only apply to a maneuver while it is being executed (which General Leia crew already did) which allows Cova to dial in a red 1 hard and execute it as white and still get her extra attack die due to R4 astromech not affecting the dial itself... Btw, the Resistance Transport's 2 straight is blue.
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:🤦♂️ Not what they did... They made R4 astromech (Nien crew and L337 config/pilot(both) as well) only apply to a maneuver while it is being executed (which General Leia crew already did) which allows Cova to dial in a red 1 hard and execute it as white and still get her extra attack die due to R4 astromech not affecting the dial itself... Btw, the Resistance Transport's 2 straight is blue.
What I mean is, Cova Nell could start the turn stressed, dial in a red maneuver, wait to see the board state, then elect to NOT use Leia, and end up performing the white two straight... which R4 Astromech turned blue.
10 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:What I mean is, Cova Nell could start the turn stressed, dial in a red maneuver, wait to see the board state, then elect to NOT use Leia, and end up performing the white two straight... which R4 Astromech turned blue.
I see it now, as long as the dialed maneuver wasn't a 1 turn.
On 10/30/2020 at 1:13 PM, emeraldbeacon said:As far as stress goes, though, I'd also agree that the red SLAM stress lands AFTER the completion of the maneuver. That means a blue maneuver would not be able to remove the stress from the SLAM, specifically.
Yeah. I guess it'd matter for something like removing strain/deplete tokens, but mostly doing a blue 3-speed SLAM isn't going to do anything.
On 10/30/2020 at 3:36 PM, JBFancourt said:f Poe SLAMS a blue maneuver as his second action..... it should clear stress??
Yes and no.
A blue maneuver would clear stress. But not the stress from a red SLAM.
"Some action icons are red. After a ship performs one of these actions, it gains a stress token."
So you don't get the stress until after the action (which contains the blue maneuver) is completed.
However, the blue maneuver inside the SLAM action does have a check pilot stress step. So if you can SLAM whilst stressed, you can use the check pilot stress step of a blue maneuver inside the SLAM action to shed the stress (assuming there's only one).
This is one of the advantages of Coaxium Hyperfuel, for those ships that can equip it (which Poe currently can't, to be fair).
You can do a red move, then use Coaxium Hyperfuel to SLAM, perform a blue maneuver(which takes a bit of doing - Leia, for example, or a damaged engine critical, since the Fireball's native red moves and blue moves don't share a speed), clear stress, and in theory used Advanced SLAM to perform an additional action.
Page 3 of the rules reference has this quote about red actions.
◊ As a cost to attempt to perform a red action, a ship must gain 1 stress token.
1 minute ago, Squirl808 said:Page 3 of the rules reference has this quote about red actions.
◊ As a cost to attempt to perform a red action, a ship must gain 1 stress token.
Specifically... the cost of performing a red action is stress. As @Magnus Grendel pointed out above, the timing of when you receive that stress is after performing the action.
(double post)
Edited by emeraldbeaconOn 10/30/2020 at 3:42 PM, meffo said:wow. nice find!
it shouldn't matter in 99,99% of cases, since you would be stressed after the fact anyway - and you cannot perform actions while stressed. still a good question, though.
Just to point out the obvious but although this isn't likely to be good to clear stress a solid blue maneuver will also clear off those pesky strains and depletes so worth getting a ruling.
Edited by Tyhar77 hours ago, Squirl808 said:Page 3 of the rules reference has this quote about red actions.
◊ As a cost to attempt to perform a red action, a ship must gain 1 stress token.
Rules Reference page 20
A ship receives one stress token while it executes a red maneuver or
after
it performs a red action.
If I might detour this thread a little, it relates to the same issue.
"you must use the template of 1 speed higher, if able."
Has anyone clarified what happens if I am not able?
If I say do a red BR or Boost and but it would go off the board or bump. Anything that would normally count as a failed action.
Does that then result in
a) A failed action as usual.
or
b) I am "unable" to perform that move so I barrel roll or boost with a normal template size.
I think the “if able” clause would allow you to use option b and use the normal template. If it were option a, they could have left off the “if able” clause.
5 minutes ago, Yank01 said:I think the “if able” clause would allow you to use option b and use the normal template. If it were option a, they could have left off the “if able” clause.
Not that I disagree but to play devils advocate one could argue the "if able" clause is there to account for SLAM manoeuvres and not being able to go higher the bank 3 for instance.
In that respect if doesn't clarify failed moves.
Edited by Tyhar7On 10/30/2020 at 11:36 AM, JBFancourt said:SLAM is a maneuver.... just leaving aside OT and R4 for a sec and just focusing on the new SLAM rules.... 🤷♂️
What “new SLAM rules?” Did something change recently?
5 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:What “new SLAM rules?” Did something change recently?
It used to have to be your one given action... so no coordinated actions... PA action or Poe extra action, etc.
They changed it to just being during your activation.
31 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:If I might detour this thread a little, it relates to the same issue.
"you must use the template of 1 speed higher, if able."
Has anyone clarified what happens if I am not able?
If I say do a red BR or Boost and but it would go off the board or bump. Anything that would normally count as a failed action.
Does that then result in
a) A failed action as usual.
or
b) I am "unable" to perform that move so I barrel roll or boost with a normal template size.
I'd say it just fails.
23 minutes ago, Yank01 said:I think the “if able” clause would allow you to use option b and use the normal template. If it were option a, they could have left off the “if able” clause.
Hard disagree.
For the last part, "if able" also needs to be there for those times the longer template doesn't exist, like a 4 turn or bank.
For the first part, there's literally nothing in the game which works like that. For everything else, a fail just ends things.
1 hour ago, JBFancourt said:It used to have to be your one given action... so no coordinated actions... PA action or Poe extra action, etc.
They changed it to just being during your activation.
When did that happen??
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:I'd say it just fails.
Hard disagree.
For the last part, "if able" also needs to be there for those times the longer template doesn't exist, like a 4 turn or bank.
For the first part, there's literally nothing in the game which works like that. For everything else, a fail just ends things.
i 100% agree with this. it just fails if you can't do it with the template you must use.
18 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:When did that happen??
Last rules update in September.
RR page 19 under SLAM
QuoteA ship can perform a [SLAM] action only during its activation in the Activation Phase . Therefore a ship cannot perform a [SLAM] action if it is granted an action at any other time .
22 minutes ago, meffo said:i 100% agree with this. it just fails if you can't do it with the template you must use.
I also agree with this. Being unable to use a template that doesn't exist, and being unable to perform an action normally are not the same thing.
51 minutes ago, Lyianx said:Last rules update in September.
RR page 19 under SLAM
Oh, yeah. I knew about that. So Poe can still give himself a Red SLAM after he rolls or something, as long as it all happens during his activation.