So, having a look at the new points for the Heralds of Hope and the only thing I can think about is....who came up with this points?

So, starting from the top, new Poe Dameron sitting at 65 points. Already the normal version of Poe is too expensive, but this one being ONLY 2 points less? Why would you even play this pilot? Is much worst than the regular Poe....

Temmin Wexley at 54 points, not much to say on this one, I don't think that he'll see much play based on the fact that T-70 lists didn't see much play anyway.

C’ai Threnalli at 49. Clearly costed with a Black One in mind (which goes for 47), not sure how easy it will be to trigger the ability, perhaps should have ended on 48.

Nimi Chereen at 49. How can you justify taking this pilot at 49 over pretty much anything else on the Resistance roster? How can this pilot cost 2 points more than Bastian?

Seftin Vanik at 36. Clearly is an Initiative 5 A-wing which won't see his ability triggering almost at all. Costing the same as Talli makes sense.

Wrobie Tyce at 35. Unfortunately a really bad ability on an Initiative 4 A-wing. Had to cost more than the generic I3, so I guess that is fine.

Suralinda Javos at 33. An Initiative 3 which costs less than the generic of the same initiative, not sure why that is the case, should cost just like the other I3, so 34.

Merl Cobben at 32. The best pilot with difference from the whole pack, costing the same as the other Initiative 1 generics. Again, not sure why he is not costing, at least 33.

Once again we see FFG pushing the A-wing with pilots below the cost that they should have (even though 2 of them have really bad abilities and 1 a really situational one), while the T-70 get prohibitive prices that will make them see no play whatsoever.

R2-D2 at 6. Really surprised with this one being that cheap. Seems like a steal, will try it for sure. Also interesting choice that, for whatever reason, this one doesn't scale with Initiative.

R6-D8 at 4. A better predator, but will be hard to get multiple triggers at once. I was thinking it would cost only 3, not sure if it is not too much at 4.

Underslung Blaster Cannon at 3. I had my doubts with the low range, lock requirement, 2 red dice (can't get range bonus) that can be modified only with a lock, but after seeing the price, no worries, no more doubts, won't bother testing the card.

Overdrive Thruster with a cost equal to your initiative. I was wishing that this would be the card to get on Poe, but at 6 points.... not sure that will be the case. I can't see it justifying the cost.

Backwards Tailslide at 2 points. Seems like it could work, was hoping for it to be at 1, but still, maybe can be useful on some pilots.

Starbird Slash at 1 point. Again, the A-wings get the card at the cheapest cost. I can already see this being a staple on the A-wings together with Heroic whenever points allow.

We keep being pushed to an A-wing meta. Waiting for November updated points to see if they really want to address the multiple issues that the faction has:

-Overpriced crew and gunner options except Finn, Rose and Korr Sella

-Lack of support ship due to the bad costs or bad designed pilots on the transport and pod

-Overpriced Bomber and Falcon pilots (other than Rey) due to the fear of limiting multiples of the same generic in order to bring costs down to the appropriate level.

-Overpriced non-generic T-70 pilots (can't see any other faction with such jumps in costs between the generic and the limited pilots, with most of them being just average skills)

14 hours ago, Mikhs said:

Overdrive Thruster with a cost equal to your initiative. I was wishing that this would be the card to get on Poe, but at 6 points.... not sure that will be the case. I can't see it justifying the cost.

Overdrive for 6 points on Poe seems right. Slap an R4 on, and Poe is stupid maneuverable. I look forward to flying him a plenty.

1 minute ago, 5050Saint said:

Overdrive for 6 points on Poe seems right. Slap an R4 on, and Poe is stupid maneuverable. I look forward to flying him a plenty.

I thinks its fair, too. I love this card on paper and can't wait trying it out. I think this card can finally make Poe playable. Because I love 2 ship lists I want to try a rather fat Poe with Han. Like this:

Poe Dameron (67)
Outmaneuver (6)
R4 Astromech (2)
Overdrive Thruster (6)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)

Han Solo (63)
Lone Wolf (5)
Kaydel Connix (5)
Korr Sella (6)
Rey (14)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Rey’s Millennium Falcon (2)
Total: 189

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

@Ryuneke I know it costs more, but I'd put Seasoned Navigator on Han that Kaydel. Both are worth trying out, with SeasNav costing a hair more. Might be worth trying either way, and with Contraband, Korr, and Rey's Title, doing red maneuvers won't be as hampering.

Also, I just realized Kaydel lets you change your maneuver to any basic maneuver of a higher speed. Maybe, Kaydel is better.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Overdrive for 6 points on Poe seems right. Slap an R4 on, and Poe is stupid maneuverable. I look forward to flying him a plenty.

Agreed, it's going to make him incredibly hard to pin down. People may overlook/undervalue the boost into 2 speed roll, or roll into 2 speed boost - but I don't think they'll do so for long.

The Broadsides T-70 is actually cheaper than I thought. Less than jess is a win in my book

17 hours ago, Mikhs said:

So, having a look at the new points for the Heralds of Hope and the only thing I can think about is....who came up with this points?

So, starting from the top, new Poe Dameron sitting at 65 points. Already the normal version of Poe is too expensive, but this one being ONLY 2 points less? Why would you even play this pilot? Is much worst than the regular Poe....

Temmin Wexley at 54 points, not much to say on this one, I don't think that he'll see much play based on the fact that T-70 lists didn't see much play anyway.

C’ai Threnalli at 49. Clearly costed with a Black One in mind (which goes for 47), not sure how easy it will be to trigger the ability, perhaps should have ended on 48.

Nimi Chereen at 49. How can you justify taking this pilot at 49 over pretty much anything else on the Resistance roster? How can this pilot cost 2 points more than Bastian?

Seftin Vanik at 36. Clearly is an Initiative 5 A-wing which won't see his ability triggering almost at all. Costing the same as Talli makes sense.

Wrobie Tyce at 35. Unfortunately a really bad ability on an Initiative 4 A-wing. Had to cost more than the generic I3, so I guess that is fine.

Suralinda Javos at 33. An Initiative 3 which costs less than the generic of the same initiative, not sure why that is the case, should cost just like the other I3, so 34.

Merl Cobben at 32. The best pilot with difference from the whole pack, costing the same as the other Initiative 1 generics. Again, not sure why he is not costing, at least 33.

Once again we see FFG pushing the A-wing with pilots below the cost that they should have (even though 2 of them have really bad abilities and 1 a really situational one), while the T-70 get prohibitive prices that will make them see no play whatsoever.

R2-D2 at 6. Really surprised with this one being that cheap. Seems like a steal, will try it for sure. Also interesting choice that, for whatever reason, this one doesn't scale with Initiative.

R6-D8 at 4. A better predator, but will be hard to get multiple triggers at once. I was thinking it would cost only 3, not sure if it is not too much at 4.

Underslung Blaster Cannon at 3. I had my doubts with the low range, lock requirement, 2 red dice (can't get range bonus) that can be modified only with a lock, but after seeing the price, no worries, no more doubts, won't bother testing the card.

Overdrive Thruster with a cost equal to your initiative. I was wishing that this would be the card to get on Poe, but at 6 points.... not sure that will be the case. I can't see it justifying the cost.

Backwards Tailslide at 2 points. Seems like it could work, was hoping for it to be at 1, but still, maybe can be useful on some pilots.

Starbird Slash at 1 point. Again, the A-wings get the card at the cheapest cost. I can already see this being a staple on the A-wings together with Heroic whenever points allow.

We keep being pushed to an A-wing meta. Waiting for November updated points to see if they really want to address the multiple issues that the faction has:

-Overpriced crew and gunner options except Finn, Rose and Korr Sella

-Lack of support ship due to the bad costs or bad designed pilots on the transport and pod

-Overpriced Bomber and Falcon pilots (other than Rey) due to the fear of limiting multiples of the same generic in order to bring costs down to the appropriate level.

-Overpriced non-generic T-70 pilots (can't see any other faction with such jumps in costs between the generic and the limited pilots, with most of them being just average skills)

I'm so F***ING SICK of RZ-2 A-Wings...

7 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

I'm so F***ING SICK of RZ-2 A-Wings...

Me too, least favorite ship to fly against in the game. That said, I am kinda interested in trying this: Stellar Avian Laceration:

Suralinda Javos (33)
Intimidation (3)

Merl Cobben (32)
Starbird Slash (1)

Zizi Tlo (41)
Heroic (1)
Starbird Slash (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Starbird Slash (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Seftin Vanik (36)
Heroic (1)
Starbird Slash (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

How many green dice can I take away from you?

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Overdrive for 6 points on Poe seems right. Slap an R4 on, and Poe is stupid maneuverable. I look forward to flying him a plenty.

Poe is already priced way too high on his base price, I don't think that adding a 6 points tax won't help you much.

I'm hoping to be wrong about this.

Temmin Wexley works really well with Advanced Optics in a 4 T70 list, so that one didn't really surprise me.

Nimi also doesn't surprise me, changing a blank to a hit when you have a Focus token is also really strong, and the requirement for the ability is negligible against majority of lists.

Cai is also easy to trigger every turn by just doing leapfrog maneuvers with a lower init ship, though an evade is less valuable especially when you need other friendly ships to trigger it meaning it won't be there when you need it in the endgame.

R6-D8 is way better than Predator, but imo it's worth 3.5 points and at 4 points it's going to scare off most people that don't understand the card or dislike bullseye abilities.

The rest I mostly agree with OP. Starbird Slash needed to be undercosted to be playable on RZ-1s, but of course it just makes RZ-2s that much better. A-Wings got another cheap I5 and a bunch of other cheap pilots that they didn't need, which is annoying when A-Wings are already the darlings of the faction and RZ-1s have nothing.

19 hours ago, Mikhs said:

So, having a look at the new points for the Heralds of Hope and the only thing I can think about is....who came up with this points?

<<<<tons of complaining about nearly every component in the middle>>>>

-Overpriced non-generic T-70 pilots (can't see any other faction with such jumps in costs between the generic and the limited pilots, with most of them being just average skills)

I guess you've got 50 more bucks to spend on Halloween candy, then.

33 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I guess you've got 50 more bucks to spend on Halloween candy, then.

Thank you for your comments on the post, trying to address the points explained with some feedback on particular things that I may have failed to notice.

It's always great to get to know other's opinions on the passion we all share for this game.

The complaint comes mostly from checking what each one of the cards will add to the faction and the realization that most of the additions that (in my personal opinion) will have a positive impact are oriented to the RZ-2 A-Wings (which I believe are doing just fine), instead of to the X-Wings (Which are not shinning in gold due to the amount of tournaments they have got under their belt).

Will have to check what the rest of the people have commented though.

21 hours ago, Mikhs said:

Suralinda Javos at 33. An Initiative 3 which costs less than the generic of the same initiative, not sure why that is the case, should cost just like the other I3, so 34.

It is funny to see a pilot that is clearly better be cheaper but it tells us two things:

FFG believes I3 RZ2s should not be 34 points. FFG does not want 6 I3 RZ2s on the board.

38 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

It is funny to see a pilot that is clearly better be cheaper but it tells us two things:

FFG believes I3 RZ2s should not be 34 points. FFG does not want 6 I3 RZ2s on the board.

They should just add limits to the amount of generics you can take on a list, similar to how they doted the CIS ships.

This could be easily implemented on the PDF with points, with some new column saying how many of a said ship you can have. Limited pilots would have a 1, but the generics could be limited depending on how many they believe is okay to have.

With this you could also limit "Ace" type pilots on a particular list (For instance the Petranaki) to only allow 1 or 2 at a time or help with overcosted ships that are dancing on the edge of a particular threshold.

For instance the generic Tie Defenders could go points from 67 limiting them to 2 per list; the Starfortress generic go down from 51, limiting them to 3 per list; the generic Bwing could go down from 41 limiting them to 4 per list, etc...

I think if they apply generic limits it will need to be category based. For example, limiting the X-wing, U-wing, or B-wing in rebels does essentially nothing to allow a price drop because those 3 have their prices 'locked' to each other. Even if the X-wing was a 3 of limit, dropping it even by 1-2 points suddenly allows U-wings to replace X-wings in 5X lists.

That said, I can definitely see the issue for factions with more diverse ships. The A-wing doesn't exactly have any ships waiting in the wings to replace it or jump it besides arguably the Fireball.

Currently I believe the T-70's are still paying a tax for thier weapon hardpoint, but even with underslung blaster cannon, there isn't really any ideal upgrade that works with them.

Poe is the main issue, OT should really help him but his base cost is still way higher than it should be. He's not 1 point difference in value to Rey.

6 hours ago, KCDodger said:

I'm so F***ING SICK of RZ-2 A-Wings...

If all Resistance had were the 6 pilots in the original expansion--blue, green, Zari, Greer, Tallie, L'ulo--things would just be a lot nicer.

11 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Currently I believe the T-70's are still paying a tax for thier weapon hardpoint

They really aren't.

3/2/4/3 with S-Foils for 42 is dead on.

The aces might be a bit steep, but generic T-70 prices are wicked fair.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

If all Resistance had were the 6 pilots in the original expansion--blue, green, Zari, Greer, Tallie, L'ulo--things would just be a lot nicer.

They really aren't.

3/2/4/3 with S-Foils for 42 is dead on.

The aces might be a bit steep, but generic T-70 prices are wicked fair.

I probably should of expanded more. I agree the generics are reasonably priced but the named a still far to steep. Jaycris Tubbs is priced 6 points above the Blue Sqd generic. Same ini with a poor ability, I hardly see how he'd be worth 1 point more, let alone 6. Most of the named pilots are all 4-6 points above the generics with the same initiative, even the ones with sub par abilities. C'ia, the new I4, is the only ship close to its generic counterpart at 2 points.

Nien and Ello are probably in a reasonable price range, but Poe needs to be reigned in to a 60-62 area. If he was 62 + OT so it equaled 68, his original price, that would be a good place.

On 10/30/2020 at 2:02 PM, 5050Saint said:

Overdrive for 6 points on Poe seems right. Slap an R4 on, and Poe is stupid maneuverable. I look forward to flying him a plenty.

Played my first game with it and did a short batrep .

I dislike the cost of the new stuff, and the pack as a whole is underwhelming despite the potential they had. However, I'm just pleased we got something . That said, we didn't need more RZ-2 pilots, especially another at Initiative 5.

I even wrote a blog about my feelings on the matter!

If Hera isn't in the A-Wing at I5 or higher in the coming Phoenix Cell pack, the Rebel players should all riot. As a Resistance player, I hate that the Rebel A-Wing has received absolutely zero love since release.

13 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

Played my first game with it and did a short batrep .

It's nice to see someone actually play with it as opposed to bashing it just based on theorycrafting.

I ordered 3 of them, because, well, Epic. I can't wait to fly 'em.

Firstly I want to say that I find the Resistance the suckiest faction to play. It’s pretty much T 70’s and A Wings. At least the Rebels have choices.
I only say this to show that I have 0 investment in the faction and I think I’m pretty objective.
I don’t understand why you think new Poe sucks over old Poe. In my eyes they are vastly different and fulfil different roles. Old Poe is essentially an Ace, nothing outstanding, just an Ace with a decent ability. Whereas new Poe is a slightly lesser Ace, but he is also a support ship. You can coordinate whomever you want every second turn, including himself. I think it’s very short sighted to say new Poe just plain sucks, a good player can use him to set up killer double mod attacks, instead of having to rely on Ace Poe to do all the heavy lifting.

I could be completely wrong, my main faction is FO and Republic, which I find I play the same anyway. I have thought about flying Resistance, but with 14 X Wing and 9 A Wing pilots to choose from, pretty much tells me it doesn’t have a lot of depth.
Also I’m with @KCDodger ... when she says, so tired of A Wings... boring AF.

On 10/30/2020 at 3:37 PM, Mikhs said:

Poe is already priced way too high on his base price, I don't think that adding a 6 points tax won't help you much.

I'm hoping to be wrong about this.

A 6 point tax would be if it didn't add anything to Poe.

Por with OT is an i6 ace with an incredibly powerful ability with repositioning patterns that no other ship can imitate, so I think it's pretty fair.

The big issue with the faction is still the lack of chassis variety

It’s odd to see people bashing Resistance for chassis variety when they’re a faction where EVERY SINGLE SHIP is good.

Rey’s Falcon, Vennie, Finn & Rose pods, Cova, Kaz and the generic Fireball... if all you’re running is T-70s and A-Wings you’re doing Resistance wrong.

2 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It’s odd to see people bashing Resistance for chassis variety when they’re a faction where EVERY SINGLE SHIP is good.

Rey’s Falcon, Vennie, Finn & Rose pods, Cova, Kaz and the generic Fireball... if all you’re running is T-70s and A-Wings you’re doing Resistance wrong.

Or they're playing what they enjoy and are disappointed that in order to be competitive, they need to fly things they dislike?