After sleeping on the announcement last night one thing popped into my head. The setting is ill suited for the art style and app focus.

With Mansions of Madness the app provided this level of the unknown suitable for the Cthulu mythos. The comic style works far better with super heroes than the gritty realism needed for high fantasy. This could of been another game in the terranoth universe similar to how have Arkham and Eldritch horror. Or they could of used another one of their brands like Netrunner that would of felt more succinct with App intergration.

Think about it what if this was Netrunner instead? What if heroes were runners and the dungeon was a corp they were infiltrating. What if you were hacking into the App, what if the town section was you upgrading your gear after a job.

I think the Descent brand and the comparisons this game will receive because of it will hurt this game in the long run.

They used the name for recognitions’s sake. And they may get less customers for that. Oh, the irony.

Yes they should have called it: Terrinoth, legend of the dark, or something like that. The reason they have used descent is probably the get the attention of de Descent fans, like said by Skyhunterd.

The thing is, descent fans wanted more physical content for the 2e, and have asked for it for years, with no reaction what so ever by FFG (with exception of Lost Legends).

And now they show this. And to sum up all the critic: they haven’t listened to the fans. I think descent 2e was in most way almost perfect, it could use some tweakt now and there, like the dice system, but overall its good!

But the use of the word Descent could backfire on them, they hyped it so much with that, that a lot of fans will turn there back on FFG.

I have accepted that this will not be in my collection. I’m curious on how long the support will be there for this game and how well it will sell.

cheers!

Descent 2nd Ed is 8 years old and shackled to 1st Ed content, and that came out 15 years ago. There’s no game that FFG has supported for that long and a clean break in terms of art style, sculpt quality, etc., was the only way to continue the line with truly new content.

We also know that there’s a market for very expensive FFG games, based on the success of Twilight Imperium both long term, as well as with 4th edition specifically. We also know that there’s a market for app driven FFG games based on the success of JIME and MoM 2nd Ed.

The only real question is whether or not there’s a market for a huge, expensive, app-based Descent game.

Yes, this does seem to be a little bit of a test product, and they used the Descent name (not the Terrinoth setting but the product name specifically) to get Descent players on board. But it's one of those experiments where you think, 'Gee, they could have just paid me $20 and I could have told them all the reasons it's not going to work and saved them a lot of time.' There's a difference between knowing and understanding, people know that there are high priced KS games that do quite well, but some of those people also understand why those high priced KS games are able to succeed in spite of that high price. It seems like the sales people at FFG do not.

I think if you changed the theme to something like Netrunner, upped the tiles and terrain components, put about 50-60 more miniatures in the box, and let Amazon sell it for 40% off, a lot of people would be willing to give it a try as a new thing. As it is, allow me to pull out a gigantic shoe and say it's my shoe-in prediction of the week that there won't be an Act 2 or Act 3 for this game. Imperial Assault: Legends of the Dark (not 2nd edition!) will probably learn a lot of useful lessons from it, but this product is a dud.

43 minutes ago, frankelee said:

Yes, this does seem to be a little bit of a test product, and they used the Descent name (not the Terrinoth setting but the product name specifically) to get Descent players on board. But it's one of those experiments where you think, 'Gee, they could have just paid me $20 and I could have told them all the reasons it's not going to work and saved them a lot of time.' There's a difference between knowing and understanding, people know that there are high priced KS games that do quite well, but some of those people also understand why those high priced KS games are able to succeed in spite of that high price. It seems like the sales people at FFG do not.

I think if you changed the theme to something like Netrunner, upped the tiles and terrain components, put about 50-60 more miniatures in the box, and let Amazon sell it for 40% off, a lot of people would be willing to give it a try as a new thing. As it is, allow me to pull out a gigantic shoe and say it's my shoe-in prediction of the week that there won't be an Act 2 or Act 3 for this game. Imperial Assault: Legends of the Dark (not 2nd edition!) will probably learn a lot of useful lessons from it, but this product is a dud.

I think you are absolutely right that this is a test product, which is precisely why it is set in Terrinoth. It looks like there are multiple mechanics in this game that are new ground for FFG. Better to iron out the kinks with their own IP and demonstrate an audience for that style of gameplay before they go shopping it out to Disney for Star Wars or Marvel, or whoever owns the rights to the Cthulhu stuff.

9 minutes ago, Pollux85 said:

I think you are absolutely right that this is a test product, which is precisely why it is set in Terrinoth. It looks like there are multiple mechanics in this game that are new ground for FFG. Better to iron out the kinks with their own IP and demonstrate an audience for that style of gameplay before they go shopping it out to Disney for Star Wars or Marvel, or whoever owns the rights to the Cthulhu stuff.

Had some nightmare the other day about a SW Talisman (never got into Talisman due to the depth of my Terrinoth 'interest' but 'twas still a nightmare), there will be Monopoly versions next

On 10/23/2020 at 12:38 PM, Pollux85 said:

I think you are absolutely right that this is a test product, which is precisely why it is set in Terrinoth. It looks like there are multiple mechanics in this game that are new ground for FFG. Better to iron out the kinks with their own IP and demonstrate an audience for that style of gameplay before they go shopping it out to Disney for Star Wars or Marvel, or whoever owns the rights to the Cthulhu stuff.

FFG is absolutely not selling a "test product" at $175 USD MSRP. Again, there is a proven market for app-driven content from FFG, there's a market for expensive FFG games, and there's a market for Descent stuff from FFG. The only thing that's unsure at this point is if there's a market for a meal with all those ingredients.

The Descent theme is not the problem. But naming it Descent is indeed. Since it is not descent v3, another was better

1 hour ago, KalEl814 said:

FFG is absolutely not selling a "test product" at $175 USD MSRP. Again, there is a proven market for app-driven content from FFG, there's a market for expensive FFG games, and there's a market for Descent stuff from FFG. The only thing that's unsure at this point is if there's a market for a meal with all those ingredients.

Just because it's expensive for consumers doesn't mean it's not an experiment. The cost of development isn't any different, and given that it's 8 months away, it's not like they're printing a bunch before they can gauge interest.

I think it's important to clarify, you say there's a "market" for expensive FFG games, like Twilight Imperium, but more accurately what you mean is "it's not an instant death sentence" for an FFG game to be expensive. In business they would say there's a market for big, coffin box board games from well known properties from FFG, but there is no market specifically just for expensive games from FFG. In the same way they would say, there's a market for high cost luxury automobiles from established luxury brands, but there is no market for high cost automobiles in general. We haven't seen FFG just release a series of high cost cost games with, we'll say, questionable value in the minds of at least half of potential customers and succeed, there is no market for that yet.

This game will rather succeed or fail based on how compelling it looks to potential consumers, which comes from an amalgamation of factors like buy-in-cost, value, miniatures, art design, gameplay experience, and maybe a few other minor factors as well. I can already tell you that most of those factors are not good enough, and that it's unlikely the gameplay experience will make up the difference. Absolutely a $175 dungeon crawler product from FFG could succeed, but this is one is behind the eight ball.

On 10/23/2020 at 9:38 AM, Pollux85 said:

I think you are absolutely right that this is a test product, which is precisely why it is set in Terrinoth. It looks like there are multiple mechanics in this game that are new ground for FFG. Better to iron out the kinks with their own IP and demonstrate an audience for that style of gameplay before they go shopping it out to Disney for Star Wars or Marvel, or whoever owns the rights to the Cthulhu stuff.

NGL, if they come out with something like Star Wars: Legends of the Outer Rim using what they learn from Descent: Legends, I would totally gobble that up. This with the SW IP sounds delicious, not sure if it would fly at the moment due to contractual reasons

Honestly, I think they saw how IA was doing as a Co-op vs 1vM vs Skirmish game and probably picked up on the stronger desire for app driven Co-op games when considering the Legends project before diving into development. The Hasbro board game deal probably messes up with them doing that though, I know there was some funny business with it and SW:IA.

Does Hasbro still have the contract for SW board games or did that get worked out with FFG? I know there was some funky classifications between "board game" and "miniature game" going on.

17 hours ago, kris40k said:

Does Hasbro still have the contract for SW board games or did that get worked out with FFG? I know there was some funky classifications between "board game" and "miniature game" going on.

No one knows. Theories abound, and for all we know there may be even more classification hijinks by calling future products an "app-based game"

2 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

No one knows. Theories abound, and for all we know there may be even more classification hijinks by calling future products an "app-based game"

Yeah, I don’t think anyone knows. Outer Rim is a straight up “board game;” there are no miniatures in the box, and FFG called it a “board game” when it was announced.

Agreed. Descent has a wonderful (and at this point almost the only available) competitive mode.

Why take this name? There won't be Descent 3ed?

4 hours ago, GralQ said:

Agreed. Descent has a wonderful (and at this point almost the only available) competitive mode.

Why take this name? There won't be Descent 3ed?

Descent 3rd Ed is out, and it is called Imperial Assault. 😛

There are three games under the 'Arkham Horror' title as well as others in the same sort of domain such as 'MoM', four under the LOTR banner (notably with the older board game still supported regardless of the newer 'journeys')......etc..., - so for everyone saying using the Descent name is a bad thing due to its differences it may not be- it may just be that they've decided it is a stronger approach than titling it as something like 'Terrinoth' or 'a game set in the Runebound universe' or whatever which makes sense as 'Descent' probably means more to those less immersed in the worlds of the games as they're familiar with those games, so they may be using 'Descent' in the same kind of way they'd use those other catch-all titles, thus now we get Descent games rather than the Descent game... This could actually be a very good thing, like I've already said a new name might not have lit up the second edition so much, but using Descent in the game's name means people cannot think about the new game WITHOUT also thinking of second (and even first!) edition so I actually think it's better for 2e than them having used a new name, even the fact people looking into 'legends' might pick up on those thorny divisive aspects- app only / no overlord- but then quickly get directed to the other Descent game that offers the opposites by word association/ thought path mindy-ness stuff , thus some players new to the 'worlds' of the game might get an interest in 'journeys' as well

I agree there could be 10 more Differwnt Descent games... easily.

descent love Letters, Descent monopoly. Descent deckbuilding game, descent miniature battle game and so on... Actually there is no limit. I personally don`t care Descent fransize. Generic fantasy stuff... not interested in personally. But I own Descent 1sd edition and have played other Games based on the same fransize. And I would prefer similar game using different fransize more... but Ffg own this fransize so it is easier to use than most!

On 11/8/2020 at 6:04 AM, Hannibal_pjv said:

I agree there could be 10 more Differwnt Descent games... easily.

descent love Letters, Descent monopoly. Descent deckbuilding game, descent miniature battle game and so on... Actually there is no limit. I personally don`t care Descent fransize. Generic fantasy stuff... not interested in personally. But I own Descent 1sd edition and have played other Games based on the same fransize. And I would prefer similar game using different fransize more... but Ffg own this fransize so it is easier to use than most!

Yeah, but don't expect to see: Risk - Descent edition, lol

You think my Dragon's paying rent for passing through Park Lane?

If so it may be winter but it's going to be a hot day

Hannibal-pjv slightly missed my point but I get the response and it was amusing.

Descent Chess

I share the skepticism. Nothing screams more negative than cancelling production of 2nd edition...which was fine, then releasing this, other than trying to force more people to buy the new game when it comes out.

For $175 there's no way I'm even trying this. And it's not like I couldn't afford it, but that's a ridiculous price point. I won't pay that.

Still, I also get that I may not be the target audience for this anyway. In a world where people drop stupid amounts of cash for games they don't even know will be good on crowdfunding sites, maybe Asmodee wants to rake in more cash that's out there waiting to be thrown at them.

On 11/17/2020 at 7:58 PM, KelRiever said:

I share the skepticism. Nothing screams more negative than cancelling production of 2nd edition...which was fine, then releasing this, other than trying to force more people to buy the new game when it comes out.

Descent 2nd ed is tethered to 1st ed, which came out 15 years ago. It is completely reasonable for FFG to want a clean break, there's no board game they've supported for that long. Any of the lines that have been around show their age to a significant degree, as anyone who opens the last Mansions 2nd ed expansion notices in two seconds when the minis have standees that tether them to a game long gone and don't really even fit on the cardboard when more than one of them is around.

Even games that have been around that long have completely different content, rules, rotations, etc., that make the original stuff either incompatible or practically useless, which is where Descent 2nd ed is going to end up.

The content from the original game had a run longer than 99% of games of its type, and 2nd ed is probably in the same strata mathematically.

I completely get not liking with Legends of the Dark is about; it's expensive, it's app driven. But it was time.

I think having the main experience of a board game be app-based is a bad idea.

Because apps break as new tech comes out and that does not age well! Unlike a board game that you could literally pull out from 20 years ago and play.

1 hour ago, The MechE said:

I think having the main experience of a board game be app-based is a bad idea.

Because apps break as new tech comes out and that does not age well! Unlike a board game that you could literally pull out from 20 years ago and play.

I am still playing Atmosfear/Nightmare, a game from year 1992, and it came with a VHS tape... 🙄 I played it in DVD and Youtube, and now in android. I am sure that you can use DOS programs from 1990 right now. So your sentence does not have sense. Apps doesn't break, just change.

8 hours ago, gran_orco said:

I am still playing Atmosfear/Nightmare, a game from year 1992, and it came with a VHS tape... 🙄 I played it in DVD and Youtube, and now in android. I am sure that you can use DOS programs from 1990 right now. So your sentence does not have sense. Apps doesn't break, just change.

I do love that original argument, the idea that apps stop working after 10-20 years is just funny I get that going from windows 3.1 through to Windows 10 has created compatability chalenges, but the development of mobile and PC operating systems and standards of hardware in place has really solidified to the point where games consoles are experiencing 3 generations of backwards compatability.

I understand there is no guarantee, but the risk that you will only be able to play it for up to ten years is pretty tiny, pretty much every app can be developed to work offline without live servers to worry about, that said I think this game has much bigger problems, it's an unrecognisable sequal, it has a very high price point for very little physical content, and experience of FFGs has shown they already have a very expensive rapid expansion model, but their digital approach on games such as JIME has only made this cost worse by demanding consumers buy both a physical expansion and a digital expansion to extend your gameplay experience.

I have a lot of software that it is no more working (not only because of windows new releases, but also because of new hardware architectures) 😞