The best mechanic that is to play and be a dungeon master (Overlord) has been removed. We need options and alternatives for the application.

being fully integrated with the app took away the best thing I thought of the series. FF needs to think about the dungeon masters out there that love to play with villainy, and hinder the success of the heroes.

( Art by Guilherme Freitas)

to be done entirely by cards, or implemented in conjunction with the application, but it is necessary!

don't make that mistake.

Sincerely, someone who loves the franchise.


(Art by Robson Michel)


I think everyone already knows that this is not a 3rd edition, but a completely different game and blablabla etc,

what I talk about. It is a suggestion and not a complaint. A request for something that can be bigger until it gets better if they think it's worth it. I'm not behind the game, but if I'm sure I would listen to the community for something that can be an addition and not an impediment. After all who makes the game sell is the fans.

As I said, one thing does not need to exclude the other. they can exist together very well.

While I appreciate the sentiment I feel this needs to be in a game from the ground up, I've seen Dungeon masters tacted on before it never goes well..

This isn't that game, I'm hopeful a company will see the hole in the market and cater to it sooner or later, and until then we have 1e and 2e.

While I have my own gripes with this game, I think FFG might have had the right idea with cutting the overlord for this game from a design standpoint.

It seems like they are planning to release a new game line that is exclusively made for coop, app assisted play.

In the stream they explicitly stated multiple times, that this is not Descent 3rd edition. And even though it might not be on the horizon in the near future, I bet there are plans to release a 3rd edition at some point which will feature an overlord.

But the real question is, whether anybody will still be around when this happens. I have the bad feeling that LotD might fail miserably compared to 2nd edition.

100% disagree. I love fully coop games and app based games I have no gripes with. Still not sure I'll even get the game since its so expensive, but I am glad there's no overlord.

If you want an overlord, go play second edition.

100 % Fully agree. I hate fully coop games with app based system. I hope this stupid idea of apps will never work, die soon, and never see thoses anymore.

4 minutes ago, HisEpicness said:

100% disagree. I love fully coop games and app based games I have no gripes with. Still not sure I'll even get the game since its so expensive, but I am glad there's no overlord.

If you want an overlord, go play second edition.

but the second edition will be abandoned for this one, and I think FFG is making a terrible choice on this particular point

Sorry, ♂Dungeon master♂, dungeon-crawling is ♂175♂bucks♂

5 minutes ago, rugal said:

but the second edition will be abandoned for this one, and I think FFG is making a terrible choice on this particular point

well i mean, if you know about this game then you probably already own some or all of second edition already, so, other than completionists, it shouldnt matter if they stop making it. if you dont own any, then you probably werent interested to begin with, or had never even heard of it before, so, again, it shouldnt matter if they stop making second edition. Just my two cents

27 minutes ago, HisEpicness said:

100% disagree. I love fully coop games and app based games I have no gripes with. Still not sure I'll even get the game since its so expensive, but I am glad there's no overlord.

If you want an overlord, go play second edition.

6 minutes ago, HisEpicness said:

well i mean, if you know about this game then you probably already own some or all of second edition already, so, other than completionists, it shouldnt matter if they stop making it. if you dont own any, then you probably werent interested to begin with, or had never even heard of it before, so, again, it shouldnt matter if they stop making second edition. Just my two cents

There is no current in production games that provide the one verses many dungeon crawl experience... I have a half dozen FANTASTIC co-op games, some narrative heavy, other light with amazing AI, others I'm waiting on via Kickstarter... What there's not is a new game or a alternative with a overlord.. its a whole in the market...

I wish FFG the very best with this, I honestly do...but to be sarcastic to people for wanting a descent product to be a descent game with a overlord or to support it is a bit dismissive.. Its not a game for us, but people have a right to be upset or sad about the choice... And as I've said I really hope someone else picks up that torch now the descents overlord supported games have let the light go out... For those overlords in the community now is the time to be loud about this publically on forums, not specifically here raging about it but places like BBG so game developers know there's a market and people are hungry for a new contender to take up that torch.

1 hour ago, crimsonsun said:

This isn't that game, I'm hopeful a company will see the hole in the market and cater to it sooner or later, and until then we have 1e and 2e.

Agreed.

And also do not forget, this ain't Descent 3rd Edition. FFG specified in their article that Descent:LotD is a new line of games set into Terrinoth.

I am pretty certain they had a long discussion about the inclusion of an Overlord. Perhaps they left it to the already existing line of Descent games.

I think everyone already knows that this is not a 3rd edition, but a completely different and blablabla game etc,

what I talk about. It is a suggestion and not a complaint. A request for something that can be bigger until it gets better if they think it's worth it. I'm not behind the game, but if I'm sure I would listen to the community for something that can be an addition and not an impediment. After all who makes the game sell is the fans.

As I said, one thing does not need to exclude the other. they can exist together very well.

2 minutes ago, Shirys said:

Agreed.

And also do not forget, this ain't Descent 3rd Edition. FFG specified in their article that Descent:LotD is a new line of games set into Terrinoth.

I am pretty certain they had a long discussion about the inclusion of an Overlord. Perhaps they left it to the already existing line of Descent games.

One of the reasons I hope this is successful, otherwise I doubt we will see any more descent games.... I know they said this isn't 3e and thus it leaves the door open, It is extensively all the descent we will get and if it fails with Asmode in charge that's good bye descent.. So they are taking a **** of a chance...

All because of Asmodée.

Then, good bye descent, I will miss it, but it rather than a bad game killing the universe !

13 minutes ago, rugal said:

All because of Asmodée.

Then, good bye descent, I will miss it, but it rather than a bad game killing the universe !

I've got no direct line into there business practises but its the feeling I get, they are a company looking for a profit margin first and last, not a publisher looking to produce excellent games while making money at the same time.. They sound the same but they are completely different.

As a point in reference I should point you to FFGs new customer services especially for replacements or damaged components... they used to have an amazing customer services, fast, responsive and happy to help.. Try them now, your basically told to return you game to the distributor and get a replacement or a refund, via automated reply.. its cold, it puts a cost in the hands of the customer if you ordered online which I'd say the majority of people do these days and it generally sucks... Its a killer too, Games Workshop are a corporation now, though since Kirby left they've done a lot to return them to be a company I don't mind supporting if they release something I'm interested in (Necromunda is all its been since warhammer died) but while they drifted they never had poor customer support... I can't understand this choice but it reaks of cutting costs at the cost of customer care...

Anyway rant over, I don't know this is the end if it fails, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

1 minute ago, crimsonsun said:

I've got no direct line into there business practises but its the feeling I get, they are a company looking for a profit margin first and last, not a publisher looking to produce excellent games while making money at the same time.. They sound the same but they are completely different.

As a point in reference I should point you to FFGs new customer services especially for replacements or damaged components... they used to have an amazing customer services, fast, responsive and happy to help.. Try them now, your basically told to return you game to the distributor and get a replacement or a refund, via automated reply.. its cold, it puts a cost in the hands of the customer if you ordered online which I'd say the majority of people do these days and it generally sucks... Its a killer too, Games Workshop are a corporation now, though since Kirby left they've done a lot to return them to be a company I don't mind supporting if they release something I'm interested in (Necromunda is all its been since warhammer died) but while they drifted they never had poor customer support... I can't understand this choice but it reaks of cutting costs at the cost of customer care...

Anyway rant over, I don't know this is the end if it fails, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

This is sad. Boardgame world is becoming cold, the reason I left my job of video game seller, and the reason I may leave board games too to find another small attractive world

3 minutes ago, rugal said:

This is sad. Boardgame world is becoming cold, the reason I left my job of video game seller, and the reason I may leave board games too to find another small attractive world

One company is not the whole hobby.. I mean if you are disillusioned fair enough, there's a big world out there and plenty of other hobbies to get involved in...

My experience in tabletop gaming is that its never been as good... Kickstarter has injected life into board games and tabletop gaming that I wouldn't have dreamed of just 15 years ago.. Kickstarter has its quirks and many issues but what its done for the tabletop gaming industry is revolutionary... Games coming out have never been as good, as detailed and as niche... even 10 years ago everyone was pushing for streamlined simple fast games, then Kingdom Death Dropped and my prayers were answered, its gritty, its deep and its so over produced I was in love.. but its $400 board game that would never be a viable sell to a retailer prior to its success... now we have tons of campaign games but everything is fully co-op, and at some point someones going to jump on a produce something that's one verses many or co-op supported that blows the competition away by its flexability... its not if its when.. and thats exciting.. Even in the Covid age, board games and hobby games sales are at all time highs, its recession proof or resistent and its a fantastic time for long time hobbyists like myself, though I'm buying what I can now in case the market changes and the options disappear, so I've got a back log of amazing titles.. which if the market doesn't disappear could be a problem but its a good problem to have....

13 minutes ago, crimsonsun said:

One company is not the whole hobby.. I mean if you are disillusioned fair enough, there's a big world out there and plenty of other hobbies to get involved in...

My experience in tabletop gaming is that its never been as good... Kickstarter has injected life into board games and tabletop gaming that I wouldn't have dreamed of just 15 years ago.. Kickstarter has its quirks and many issues but what its done for the tabletop gaming industry is revolutionary... Games coming out have never been as good, as detailed and as niche... even 10 years ago everyone was pushing for streamlined simple fast games, then Kingdom Death Dropped and my prayers were answered, its gritty, its deep and its so over produced I was in love.. but its $400 board game that would never be a viable sell to a retailer prior to its success... now we have tons of campaign games but everything is fully co-op, and at some point someones going to jump on a produce something that's one verses many or co-op supported that blows the competition away by its flexability... its not if its when.. and thats exciting.. Even in the Covid age, board games and hobby games sales are at all time highs, its recession proof or resistent and its a fantastic time for long time hobbyists like myself, though I'm buying what I can now in case the market changes and the options disappear, so I've got a back log of amazing titles.. which if the market doesn't disappear could be a problem but its a good problem to have....

You're serious ... ? Kingdom death was one if not the worst experience ever. And since kickstaters, I think the board game universe is dying : you wait more for games than you ever play them, you paid for miniature with stupids rules to play with (zombicide on top of that), and once a game is out, you already dream of the next one that will come in a couple of year if you're lucky.

Worst era ever, indeed ! Sometimes, I hate when the time changes

3 minutes ago, rugal said:

You're serious ... ? Kingdom death was one if not the worst experience ever. And since kickstaters, I think the board game universe is dying : you wait more for games than you ever play them, you paid for miniature with stupids rules to play with (zombicide on top of that), and once a game is out, you already dream of the next one that will come in a couple of year if you're lucky.

Worst era ever, indeed ! Sometimes, I hate when the time changes

Well while we agree on descent it shows we have different tastes and opinions.. I don't normally do CMON though so I don't concern myself with zombiecide etc.. Oathsworn, Middara and Sword and Sorcery are fantastic titles... I love KDM but its far from everyones cup of tea...Anyway shows different strokes for different folks.

57 minutes ago, rugal said:

All because of Asmodée.

Then, good bye descent, I will miss it, but it rather than a bad game killing the universe !

I know it's fashionable around here to poop on Asmodee for everything but the market was moving away from board games where it's 1 player vs many others since before the acquisition.

1 hour ago, HisEpicness said:

100% disagree. I love fully coop games and app based games I have no gripes with. Still not sure I'll even get the game since its so expensive, but I am glad there's no overlord.

If you want an overlord, go play second edition.

Well why exclude it? Why not have both like 2E? I noticed in the stream they stated that while RTL gave 2E the dungeon crawl feel it was essentially a 1 v many game adapted to a dungeon crawl. With LOTD they wanted to make it an immersive dungeon crawl from the beginning.


Well my point is, sure that's great. Build the game from the ground up to be a Co-Op experience that is a dungeon crawl. But why exclude the Overlord? At least give the players the option. The dungeon can still be crafted dynamically, the Overlord may not even need to have objectives other than to "Slow" the players down.

If this game is so heavily narrative based, why not give the overlord the opportunity to 'Tell the story' make the OL role more of a Dungeon Master instead of a competitive player. I fail to see AT all how the App and AI is going to make smarter moves compared to a real human.

More options for players is NEVER a bad thing. Adapt the rules, change the game play to include ALL play styles. Imagine if it were the other way around? They removed the app and Co-Op ability. They stated they wanted to create a more fast paced PVP feel, more like Chess than story telling. But for no reason at all they just removed the App and all Co-Op options. I and most of us here would be complaining that there is no Co-Op play.

I have no problem with this version being more immersive, more of a dungeon crawl, more narrative focused. In fact I relish the idea. But the Overlord should have been repurposed not removed altogether.

I watched the whole video. I do not like that it is a one and done type of game. The app will only have 3 save slots forcing you to run the whole campaign.

I get that they can have a smart AI with an app. I get they can resolve combat with the app quicker. I get that they can give you weapon bonuses.

But, why would I not just play a video game that is a turn base RPG?

Just to really scare the hairs off the back of your necks- they said they're not done with IA, what if it's another SW eclipse and there will be an 'hey we've made a new IA' (which actually is a new IA) announcement- and again Terrinoth has been overshadowed by 'the empire'? 2e style Descent post current 2e dropped because it doesn't have some multi-$$$ IP tagged on?

I hope not but Descent 2 led to IA just two years later, RWM (available 13 April 2017, 18 August 2017 SW Legion announced, SWL available 22 March 2018) got somewhat forgotten just one year later and op was dropped in Jan 2019 and the line closed- yet SWL isn't closed off- still new stuff being announced so there is the worrying sense of a pattern developing.

I'm fine with them making SW games, plenty of people including a lot of FFG staff love SW and you don't have to want everything a company makes (except those snowy Hoth tiles for Isheim ) but what I'm not so happy with is the obvious sometimes neglect of their own Terrinoth IP as a result, often with that vibe that the SW stuff has hogged the stage monopoly-but-not-the-game style which I genuinely think has harmed sales of some of the Terrinoth games but I don't see signs of that changing under Asmodee yet (they haven't even done a recent news release for the new novel if I'm right and the novels/RPG content isn't on the Terrinoth website tab, they killed off rather than improving on the quest vault) - if they could just give them equal tlc....

But as (controversial I know) Terrinoth is way better than SW to some of us / some people love both equally etc the positives:

I think 2e is still selling well so it may not die off even though it's getting nothing new (maybe part of why they didn't make this a 3e?)

The new game could sell well if FFG actually promote it better than the unbalanced oft mentioned Look at all our Star Wars games oh and we also have some awesome games set in Terrinoth approach, FFG marketing hasn't always been so great as I've said a few times such as Terrinoth being fully awol at expos etc, please FFG start doing these games justice- the Terrinoth ones are just as good.

This could mean we do eventually get more Terrinoth content in the future (many of us are still hoping for an official full RPG adventure for one and a workshop aspect to an app would be super useful) and the fact it's not third edition could prove good for second edition remaining popular and current (even with no more official new content) or they may learn from both games and IA and we may get a new 'Descent journeys' someday, all of which could be good, but the main thing is for now it doesn't matter as there is so much great Terrinoth to bring to the table/game already (if you're lucky enough to have not missed it in some cases) - and 'legends' does look mostly, albeit not totally, awesome enough to include in that realm of a game collection that I'm still good for Mennara for a few years yet.

There's even the 'there doesn't have to be a 3e' argument- 2e is a great game, yes a 3e could improve on it and tweak it but if they keep it available it has plenty to offer even players new to the game, and means new players to enjoy things the community are still bringing to the game, so the main hope is just that FFGmodee maintain at least some kind of presence in the realms of Mennara rather than letting them fall into ruin. The fact I am still hyped for the new game even after a few initial doubts leaves me cautiously optimistic. The reaction curve went yay, hmm not so sure, actually still yay

1 hour ago, TurboCooler said:

I watched the whole video. I do not like that it is a one and done type of game. The app will only have 3 save slots forcing you to run the whole campaign.

I get that they can have a smart AI with an app. I get they can resolve combat with the app quicker. I get that they can give you weapon bonuses.

But, why would I not just play a video game that is a turn base RPG?

Because you play games like this with other people at the same table and a turn-based strategy video game is totally different? Wtf sort of fake argument is this?

2 hours ago, Inksplat said:

Because you play games like this with other people at the same table and a turn-based strategy video game is totally different? Wtf sort of fake argument is this?

Of course, what we try to explain with sentences like that is that board games that heavily rely on apps, let's say, board games that remove some rules or mechanics from the board and a lot of content is exclusively managed by the app are, in fact, very similar to a video game that must be played with a board.

Some mechanics managed by the app seems fine. For example, the AI after the monsters in MoM follow some guidelines such as "if monster X then Y", and you just move the minis. Seems nice to me, because the end result is a mini moving physically through the board and you know the logic behind the movement... But having the process of crafting an object, develop your character, or shopping completely built in the app... seems too much to me.

The line between both concepts seems really thin here, and in fact, one can think it is better to play online a video game as you don't need to place all that stuff on the table, and you can play with your friends anyway!

Due to corona my gaming group has needed to remain separated, but as we played a lot of D&D, we have switched to a digital platform, Roll20. It is fun to play with them through the internet, and in fact we don't miss the beautiful battle maps or the beautifully painted minis because now I use beautiful digital landscapes, beautiful digital battle maps and beautiful tokens on the screen... because we still play a role playing game, we still see each other and we still joke and laugh a lot. So NO, the difference between a video game and a board game is NOT the presence of the players around the table, the difference is the way the abstract rules are managed by actual persons, not an app.