Please comment and critique . I would like to make these as favorable to the playerbase as possible. If you feel any of these should have gotten different bonuses or if my description is too lacking, I am happy to change the details. Feedback on this will also obviously be taken into account when I work on the future clans. Also, if you have created a vassal family for the crab of your own that you would like to add to this project, I would be happy to add it to the list.

The purpose of this project is to add additional lore-friendly families to every Great Clan. These are all vassal families that serve the main families of the Great Clans. The family these families serve is includes as often within Rokugan, they are referred to by their lord's family name followed by their own name, for example "Endo Ujimasa" would be called "Hiruma no Endo Ujimasa", sometimes even just calling him "Hiruma Ujimasa". However, if you want to play in a Rokugan that has a bit more diversity then you may drop the first part and simply refer to such a character as "Endo Ujimasa" under all circumstances.

The distinction here between "branch family" and "servant family" is not an official designation, but indicates whether the family came from outside the family they serve (usually entirely outside the clan, and often from ronin or peasant backgrounds) and were adopted by the family as permanent servants, which I have referred to as "Servant Family" or where a family designated some of its own members to focus on specializing in a certain task, which I have called "Branch Family". While these have never been used as terms within Rokugan canon, there is every indication that those from Branch Families get treated better than those from Servant Families.

Mechanically all of these families are a bit worse than the 4 to 5 you will find in the main RPG book. This is because these families are canonically of lower status within the clan. In fact, these characters should start off with 5 less status than regular member of their clan in addition to the lower glory and usually lower wealth found here. If GMs find that these few points of honor, glory and wealth are too great of a detriment for players to consider even playing these families, then they are encouraged to bump the glory here by 5 points, the wealth by an extra koku and not implementing the status loss for being from a branch family. The ultimate goal here is to increase the options for both PCs and NPCs-- obviously a balance between realism and enjoyment should be struck.

The Atsumaru Family
Agasha Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Fire or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Labor, +1 Survival
Glory: 36 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
The Atsumaru are a small, but highly influential family within the Dragon Clan. They are one of the few families in all of Rokugan to study scientific application of magic. They have produced many chemical compounds to improve health and heal wounds. They are also responsible for the creation of fireworks. There may even be reason to believe they are one of the few able to create “gaijin pepper” weapons. However, he Atsumaru family, as their name suggests, is most often found gathering the rare ingredients for their creations and further experiments.

The Chiyu Family
Agasha Servant Family
Ring Increases: +1 Water or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Medicine, +1 Theology
Glory: 34 Starting Wealth: 3 Koku
The Chiyu are a family of ronin water shugenja who have come to serve the Agasha family. Formed from those who were rejected by Isawa, under the guidance of the Agasha they have come to be known as the finest healers in all of Rokugan. The lands they occupy used to be within Phoenix Clan borders. However, they were allowed to retain peaceful control due to imperial decree. You may find the Chiyu anywhere where there is healing to be done.

The Hiasobi Family
Agasha Servant Family
Ring Increases: +1 Air or +1 Fire
Skill Increases: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Performance
Glory: 33 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
Originally belonging to the Asahina who followed the techniques of the Atsumaru, the Hiasobi were driven to create more beautiful and ostentatious fireworks displays. The family has a dark history of being drawn to the flames and creating tragedy as a result. When one particularly elaborate display burned down a wedding festival and incinerated the betrothed, they were driven from the lands and eventually made their way into service of the Dragon. Despite their blemished record, the Hiasobi can still be found where impressive fireworks displays are called for.

The Izaku Family
Agasha Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Air or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Composition, +1 Theology
Glory: 38 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
The Izaku were formed from a marriage between the Agasha and the Asako by the blessing of both the Dragon and Phoenix clans. They control a library containing backups of much of the mystical knowledge of both clans, serving as perhaps the greatest single repository of magical knowledge in the Empire. All members of both the Dragon and Phoenix are welcome to visit for research. Members of other clans tend to need permission from both clans to visit. Even so, the Izaku family can be found outside of their library searching the land to expand the collection.

The Kobori Family
Mirumoto Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Air or +1 Earth
Skill Increases: +1 Composition, +1 Courtesy
Glory: 37 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
Primarily a family of clerks and bureaucrats, the Kobori family is one that often gets overlooked even by its own clan. However, even in a clan as loosely run as the Dragon, keeping things in order is important to proper governance. The Dragon Clan daimyos, magistrates and generals often have a member of the Kobori close at hand.

The Kouken Family
Togashi Servant Family
Ring Increases: +1 Earth or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Sentiment, +1 Theology
Glory: 34 Starting Wealth: 3 Koku
The Kouken are an order of monks that can be found throughout Rokugan. Without openly revealing their allegiances, the Kouken gather information and keep the Dragon Clan apprised of ongoings throughout the land. Although not officially associated with the Dragon Clan in any way, a deep enough conversation with a member might reveal their interpretation of Shinsei’s teachings to align closer to those of Togashi than most of what is taught in brotherhood temples. The Kouken can naturally be found anywhere in the empire.

The Remiki Family
Agasha Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Water or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Smithing, +1 Theology
Glory: 37 Starting Wealth: 5 Koku
The Remiki are a family of blacksmiths that specialized in creating armor for the Dragon. They mix mystical arts into their smithing techniques and it is said that the armor they create has an awakened spirit. If you seek fine armor in Dragon Clan lands, the Remiki are the ones to look for.

The Sakura Family
Kitsuki Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Air or +1 Water
Skill Increases: +1 Courtesy, +1 Skulduggery
Glory: 32 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
The Sakura family is a branch of the Kitsuki who are paradoxically devoted to hiding truth. They horde or destroy evidence, discourage investigations and cover up crimes. This is because they believe that if certain truths in the empire were to ever come to light, it may threaten the safety and order within Rokugan entirely. They particularly become involved whenever investigations in the empire start to culprits being ninja. The Sakura family can be found anywhere there is significant crime in the empire.

The Seiya Family
Agasha Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Air or +1 Void
Skill Increases: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Composition
Glory: 35 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
The Seiya family are a family of artists within the Dragon, known for their calligraphy and drawings. They aren’t particularly renowned for their work, even within their own clan, but they are some of the few artists that the clan produces. You may find the Seiya family anywhere where they may be able to display their art or be inspired by the art of others.

The Zurui Family
Mirumoto Branch Family
Ring Increases: +1 Earth or +1 Water
Skill Increases: +1 Fitness, +1 Tactics
Glory: 37 Starting Wealth: 4 Koku
While the Mirumoto usually focus themselves on dueling or war, the Zurui family is a branch that has devoted themselves to the protection of the clan’s shugenja. The Zurui yojimbo have proven themselves time and time again as effective guardians for the clans shugenja. They have even kept their charges safe in conflicts the Dragon lost.

There's currently no clue in the rpg or ccg if the lying darkness is still a thing that exists. A few ominous in character mentions here & there in the creation myth & ishiken inversions but nothing concrete rule-wise

So rather than mentioning it for the sakura family, you could just say they have a pointed interest in ninjas and their strange powers, that's how they started with the kitsuki diary in previous eds

12 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

There's currently no clue in the rpg or ccg if the lying darkness is still a thing that exists. A few ominous in character mentions here & there in the creation myth & ishiken inversions but nothing concrete rule-wise

So rather than mentioning it for the sakura family, you could just say they have a pointed interest in ninjas and their strange powers, that's how they started with the kitsuki diary in previous eds

Good thought. I felt it was giving the game away a bit too much, but it didn't initially occur to me the best way to go about fixing it. I suppose if it sounds like they are covering things up for the Scorpion Clan... that will just have to do.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Good thought. I felt it was giving the game away a bit too much, but it didn't initially occur to me the best way to go about fixing it. I suppose if it sounds like they are covering things up for the Scorpion Clan... that will just have to do.

To be fair, unless there's something in Celestial Realms, they basically are covering up what a particular branch of the Scorpion are doing...

I was going to suggest that the Sakuras were the Dragon's shinobi agents. And if they have a shadow school, it would be a courtier/shinobi focused one. I can also see the "retired" shinobi masters being used to train the Kitsuki investigators by creating scenarios they might encounter. The whole "poachers make the best game wardens" argument. And the most gifted Kistuki Investigators who catch on quick to the Sakura Shadow master's lessons in the Kitsuki school would either be inducted in to the secrets of the Sakura Family or directed towards other endeavors if their disposition was unfavorable to the goals of this shadow organization.

1 hour ago, neilcell said:

I was going to suggest that the Sakuras were the Dragon's shinobi agents. And if they have a shadow school, it would be a courtier/shinobi focused one. I can also see the "retired" shinobi masters being used to train the Kitsuki investigators by creating scenarios they might encounter. The whole "poachers make the best game wardens" argument. And the most gifted Kistuki Investigators who catch on quick to the Sakura Shadow master's lessons in the Kitsuki school would either be inducted in to the secrets of the Sakura Family or directed towards other endeavors if their disposition was unfavorable to the goals of this shadow organization.

I don't think anything I wrote particularly precludes that. It seems like a sensible enough explanation for exactly how they go about covering up evidence. Although the original lore was that the family was founded because a wife killed her husband for having tried to learn the shadowy arts.

Honestly-- it is odd enough to even have "Sakura" as a family name given it is canonically established to be the most generic, boring given pre-gempukku girls' name. Then again-- there is a family called Ichiro too, and a couple that end in "ko", so I guess that sort of sensibility was tossed out long ago.

2 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

I don't think anything I wrote particularly precludesHonestly-- it is odd enough to even have "Sakura" as a family name given it is canonically established to be the most generic, boring given pre-gempukku girls' name. Then again-- there is a family called Ichiro too, and a couple that end in "ko", so I guess that sort of sensibility was tossed out long ago.

Yeah, well, the 1st ed game is old now and it’s a remnant of 80es near total ignorance of Asian cultures at the time (no internet back then) so nowadays the Asian fantasy kitchen sink remnants wick injected in his design sound like hilarious weeaboo stuff

15 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

Yeah, well, the 1st ed game is old now and it’s a remnant of 80es near total ignorance of Asian cultures at the time (no internet back then) so nowadays the Asian fantasy kitchen sink remnants wick injected in his design sound like hilarious weeaboo stuff

I don't know that I would say "weeaboo" exactly. I would associate that term more with those who emulate anime, particularly the more perverted anime. I think there was a lot of inspiration from what was seen in old samurai movies but without the historical and cultural understanding that would explain why things were the way they were in those movies-- and yet there was an attempt to create an entire world without those understandings. Then again-- the setting was only meant to last for a couple years and then be scrapped. Everything Jade edition and onward was an unplanned extension.

Still-- the current team had the opportunity to clean up and fix a lot of the more dissonant elements, and though there has been indication of a greater awareness of the actual culture(s) that Rokugan is mimicking (outside of few slip ups, like the new way of stating vassal families strikes me as entirely backwards-- it should be Main Family no Branch Family, not Branch Family no Main Family), virtually none of the more cringe elements involving names in the setting was addressed. They had every opportunity to change some of the names that are just way too modern or way to childish, they could have given minor clan families proper names, they could have addressed the orientalism of everything and anything being resolved with sword duels (as opposed to just bragging rights about whose sword technique was better), they could have made it clear that Rokugani were perfectly capable of making and using firearms but elected not to use them against one another to maintain the illusion of civility instead of asserting that only white people are intelligent or ambitious enough to use guns....

None of it would have really affected the core appeal of the setting as subsequent editions of the game had already been trending in this direction, but could never entirely undo some of the earliest bad decisions made without a total reset.

So all I can do here is gather up the info that I have on hand, fill in the gaps where info is lacking but seems to hint at something, and then present it.

I chalk it up to the recurring problem of changing editions and owner

They don’t dare change too many things lest the older eds grognards go « they changed it so it sucks » and they fear to lose a segment of their customer base

Well, they did change Otaku Family to Utaku, and in the new canon, they retroactively backdated the change. I take that as something of a middle of the road approach so as to tip the hat to legacy players while being less overt about simply using a word many don't understand outside of the Manga/Anime crowd.

AEG did that, not FFG. FFG just went with the Unicorn Thunder being called Utaku since forever. I mean, there were people that complained about the changes that FFG did. If they left and never came back, well, good riddance, we don’t need this toxicity around the fandom but I would argue about missing the opportunity to enact even MORE change. Granted, some social changes can be harder to sell in a society that is extremely stratified around castes (if not gender anymore).

40 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

AEG did that, not FFG. FFG just went with the Unicorn Thunder being called Utaku since forever.

When i said "new canon" I thought that implied that FFG adopted the change that AEG made, but then extrapolated it into the past. "Old canon" should be synonymous with AEG while "New Canon" refers to FFG. I'm sorry if I was not more specific on that point.

1 hour ago, Diogo Salazar said:

AEG did that, not FFG. FFG just went with the Unicorn Thunder being called Utaku since forever. I mean, there were people that complained about the changes that FFG did. If they left and never came back, well, good riddance, we don’t need this toxicity around the fandom but I would argue about missing the opportunity to enact even MORE change. Granted, some social changes can be harder to sell in a society that is extremely stratified around castes (if not gender anymore).

A lot of old gamers aren't actually that dissatisfied with FFG getting the license and resetting the universe. The old RPG/CCG with an apocalypse and lore change every tuesday to account for the CCG tournaments prizes and the frankly stupid directions marketing & the story group were regularly taking the game due to need to sell new cards & blatant story group favoritism were pretty tiring

unfortunately with the reset, some good things were inevitably lost too

6 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

A lot of old gamers aren't actually that dissatisfied with FFG getting the license and resetting the universe. The old RPG/CCG with an apocalypse and lore change every tuesday to account for the CCG tournaments prizes and the frankly stupid directions marketing & the story group were regularly taking the game due to need to sell new cards & blatant story group favoritism were pretty tiring

unfortunately with the reset, some good things were inevitably lost too

Well-- I mean-- I am sure the Shadowlands/Spider Clan people are bitterly disappointed.

I feel like I have probably been the biggest "complainer" in that I was a big fan of the series in the 1990s, but the more and more I became familiar with Japanese culture and history, the more and more I was kind of angry at the depiction L5R had painted. And so ever since it was announced FFG bought the game, I have been quite vocal in stating that they should change the elements that feel a bit like the setting is demeaning or belittling Japanese people while hiding behind the defense "it's not Japan" despite having co-opted the language, the names, the customs, the attire, and the architecture.

And, really-- somehow the setting has managed to fail to capture the chaotic freedom of the Sengoku period where anyone could imaginably rise to rule the land and the lecherous, erotic fun of the Edo period's floating cities. It's just the most dry and stale elements of both periods. I feel quite certain in saying that the writers felt the need to go so full-tilt with world ending disasters at all times that they never even got past the tip of the iceberg of the kind of fun people could actually have with this setting if only the full richness of possibility were to be embraced.

I mean, not only the argument of “it’s not Japan” while taking japanese words but also alluding to other far east asian cultures (China, Korea, Phillipines, Thailand) and slightly altering them. I mean, the Dragon Clan is aesthetically Chinese but not really, same for the Phoenix and Korea.

Yes, my biggest critic to FFG is exactly how you put it, somehow changing but not changing enough that we get this very human (which is the only positive change I see) but leeching from real world cultures under the defense that “really but not really”.

2 minutes ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Well-- I mean-- I am sure the Shadowlands/Spider Clan people are bitterly disappointed.

I feel like I have probably been the biggest "complainer" in that I was a big fan of the series in the 1990s, but the more and more I became familiar with Japanese culture and history, the more and more I was kind of angry at the depiction L5R had painted. And so ever since it was announced FFG bought the game, I have been quite vocal in stating that they should change the elements that feel a bit like the setting is demeaning or belittling Japanese people while hiding behind the defense "it's not Japan" despite having co-opted the language, the names, the customs, the attire, and the architecture.

And, really-- somehow the setting has managed to fail to capture the chaotic freedom of the Sengoku period where anyone could imaginably rise to rule the land and the lecherous, erotic fun of the Edo period's floating cities. It's just the most dry and stale elements of both periods. I feel quite certain in saying that the writers felt the need to go so full-tilt with world ending disasters at all times that they never even got past the tip of the iceberg of the kind of fun people could actually have with this setting if only the full richness of possibility were to be embraced.

Oh the RPG was never really in the devs' motivation, it was more an afterthought, an opportunity they took to expand on their CCG sales. So they never really tried to develop its lore as coherent

Rokugan and its power balance in lore was defined by the official CCG tournaments' winners. Hence the need they had to find an excuse to remove the previous tournaments winners factions from power in lore and regularly killing old characters so new ones could be sold, which they solved by inventing a cosmic menace nearly every tournament

That can work for a CCG. But then try to create a logical RPG setting out of it... Not really very manageable. Hence the RPG lore quickly became a mess

10 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

Oh the RPG was never really in the devs' motivation, it was more an afterthought, an opportunity they took to expand on their CCG sales. So they never really tried to develop its lore as coherent

Rokugan and its power balance in lore was defined by the official CCG tournaments' winners. Hence the need they had to find an excuse to remove the previous tournaments winners factions from power in lore and regularly killing old characters so new ones could be sold, which they solved by inventing a cosmic menace nearly every tournament

That can work for a CCG. But then try to create a logical RPG setting out of it... Not really very manageable. Hence the RPG lore quickly became a mess

Which is sad considering that it has so much RPG potential. I am glad that FFG is putting more input from the RPG into the setting than AEG did, but they could do more. I DO buy the cards, but that is more so as to enhance the RPG experience. I used the Generic CCG cards as stand-ins for NPCs, sometimes placing them on the table in place of character tokens. And, if I want to randomly select who the players meet, well, just shuffle a clan deck and draw to see who shows up.

To be fair, I find the current card game just horrible 😅 . I mean, they finally released the skirmish rules but it took them what? 3 years? A card game that takes 90-120 minutes to play is not worth it...

12 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

To be fair, I find the current card game just horrible 😅 . I mean, they finally released the skirmish rules but it took them what? 3 years? A card game that takes 90-120 minutes to play is not worth it...

Its a card game that takes 20 minutes to set up as you have to play around with 2 different kinds of tokens plus an honor counter plus an honor bid counter and you are still liable to lose on turn 2.

And they role-lock or ban cards from popular minor factions like Imperial, Mantis or Shadowlands which prevent people from even making non-competitive decks with them even in the Skirmish format where it doesn't matter they don't have strongholds.

And they just give Scorpion hands down the best cards in the game and have done so since the initial set. It is all so very disappointing. I bought every set they put out for the first two years and was going to teach someone how to play so they could play with me and then... realized I was just not having any fun with it. Forced myself to play online a couple times, but man was it not worth the effort.

Anyway-- I got to work on these Lion families. 14 vassal families from the Lion Clan. More than any other clan by nearly double... and the first two amounted to "wiped out by the Tsume and have no other canonical info."

8 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

More than any other clan by nearly double... and the first two amounted to "wiped out by the Tsume and have no other canonical info."

Yeah, that is crap.

4 hours ago, neilcell said:

Yeah, that is crap.

I honestly think that somewhere along the lines early on, there was a mistake made and it was never meant to be 2 vassal families.

Just as I wrote on the Crab Clan thread--

I have revised the above entries. I tried to spread out the ring allocation and skills to avoid any two having the same stats. I also tried to vary things out so that there are a few options available regardless of which ring you are looking for and vary the skills a bit.

I gave them a glory rank between 32 (if they are peasants/ronin who do rather unsavory, honorless things and/or are notably super obscure) to 39 (if their long history, fame and deeds ought to warrant them being basically a regular family) as well as their wealth with a range between 3 for the poorer, more rural families and 6 for the more commerce, trade, traveling and artistry ones with the family they serve's starting wealth being treated as somewhat of a ceiling. (Although there may be exceptions if the lore seems to extraordinarily warrant it.)

I have also adjusted the top blurb to reflect the fact that the way vassal families work has changed.

On 10/24/2020 at 8:44 AM, Tonbo Karasu said:

I honestly think that somewhere along the lines early on, there was a mistake made and it was never meant to be 2 vassal families.

Almost certainly.

IIRC for a long time the Goseki only appeared as a single mentio in a sidebar in Honor's Veil.