6 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

You mean besides the universal 1, 2, and 3 pip cards? And I'm not sure the Republic 1 pip will be all that great for him, as I don't think we'll see too many Jedi/vehicle builds, but I could be wrong.

I do. His 1 pip penalty is easy to manage, but the 2 and 3 don't play particularly well together. I think that the best way to use him is to take his 1 and either his 2 or 3 depending on how you want to use him.

13 hours ago, lologrelol said:

Vader and palps are both too expensive for what they do.

Han is too expensive.

The AT-ST is still a little too expensive.

The T-47 is too expensive.

The land speeder is too expensive.

The mandalorians are too expensive. I think this unit is dead on arrival, after the games I've played with/against it.

Bobba is a little too expensive.

Most of the imperial and rebel special forces are too expensive in points as well.

Dewbacks are way too expensive.

The F.D is a little too expensive.

Most of the corps weapon upgrades are too expensive.

Refresh weapons are too expensive. They should be cheaper than normal weapons because you must sacrifice an action. Action economy is super important in this game.

A lot of the characters are simply too expensive, because you usually need to have upgrades on them, which can increase their cost immensely.

In case you missed it, the Alex Davy interview hinted at some of the changes coming in the patch and unless he was misleading us they will be big.

• All the heavies are being redone with an eye on all of the being the AAT in power level.
• Corps weapons will come down with the impact weapons being auto includes in a lot of list to counter anybody taking a heavy.
• Dewbacks, wookies, and pathfinders are all getting buffs

If I was a betting man Han, Vader, and Boba will also be getting buffs since they main idea is to get the OT faction on the same level as the other two. I really doubt any changes for Mandos since I have heard mostly positive things about them (personally I have only failed with them lol) and no idea on Papa Palp.

10 hours ago, Lightning Dust said:

I don't think I agree with Mandalorians, but what's your reasoning? I love running them so i'd like to see more opinions

Mandos are fine, but they can just up and die to a bad roll so they are not the easiest unit to run and can feel bad lol. Funny enough you sort of want to run them like wookies right now (prepatch). They want to run on the flanks taking pot shots at enemies with their guns and not getting shot at. Their blast rockets are really good and can do some decent damage. Then they run in for the objective or into melee to tie up an enemy.

25 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Mandos are fine, but they can just up and die to a bad roll so they are not the easiest unit to run and can feel bad lol. Funny enough you sort of want to run them like wookies right now (prepatch). They want to run on the flanks taking pot shots at enemies with their guns and not getting shot at. Their blast rockets are really good and can do some decent damage. Then they run in for the objective or into melee to tie up an enemy.

Anything can fall victim here. I have only ever played Boba Fett once, and he died to a single Z-6 Rebel squad that got nine hits though. I only saved four. Does that make Boba bad? No, that's just crap luck.

Just now, Mokoshkana said:

Anything can fall victim here. I have only ever played Boba Fett once, and he died to a single Z-6 Rebel squad that got nine hits though. I only saved four. Does that make Boba bad? No, that's just crap luck.

Oh **** ya. That is the one thing I still have not comes to terms with for Legion. The fact that you can lose turn one to a bad dice roll still shocks me. I can understand how certain units should feel tankier to players and them dying to a Z6 could feel like crap. And I still don't know if that is good or bad game design lol........................ Its probably good game design I am just way to aggressive of a player!

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

Reaction to the article: Looks good. Anakin looks really meh base, but gets good fast with his cards. I'm not sure if he'll be any good paired with Obi, or even Rex, but it will be interesting to try. Force Barrier on both of them by itself makes for some interesting ideas, so we'll see.

I think he can work well with Rex but you have to change the way you play him and basically run them as a pair rather than Rex as a support piece for the rest of the clones. Rex with a Jetpack can keep up with a mobile Ani. Rex's 2 pip can give Ani a range 3 Saber throw when you dont yet have relentless so you can keep him safe to charge in later. Rex's 3 pip gives him inspire to recuce supression on Ani. His 1 pip can fire support into melee which makes for a strong Ani attack.

I also see synergy with Padme feeding Ani tokens and again inspire to remove supression. You likely need Force Barrier to protect her (and Rex as well) in an aggressive build. I am theory crafting Hero lists with all three and R2. Can get up to 10 activations.

Obi Wan is a different matter. Not sure I see as much synergy.

I think Anakin is one of the strongest Jedi from a points perspective they have ever printed. I went back and looked at Commander Luke and Operative Vader and I would straight up choose Anakin over either of them. I personally don't get my Jedi into combat before turn 2 at the earliest and often turn 3 or 4, which means he could easily be powered up when it matters. You basically can have the old school wonder twins with him and Padme, except with token sharing and better synergy between the two units.

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA. It is kind of like if you offer me a $100 which is awesome but then say I need to give up $200 to get the $100.

On 10/20/2020 at 11:30 AM, werdnaegni said:

Tabletop Admiral updated. Still need to code in "Tempted" and the multiple rank options on "Sieze the Initiative".

Much appreciated, but I noticed the link to Anakin's one pip command card isn't working.

On 10/20/2020 at 11:30 AM, werdnaegni said:

44 minutes ago, Uetur said:

I think Anakin is one of the strongest Jedi from a points perspective they have ever printed. I went back and looked at Commander Luke and Operative Vader and I would straight up choose Anakin over either of them. I personally don't get my Jedi into combat before turn 2 at the earliest and often turn 3 or 4, which means he could easily be powered up when it matters. You basically can have the old school wonder twins with him and Padme, except with token sharing and better synergy between the two units.

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA. It is kind of like if you offer me a $100 which is awesome but then say I need to give up $200 to get the $100.

I'd say it is more like someone offering you $100 dollars for free on the spot, but you could get $200 dollars if you take this coin flip, but if you lose you need to give them $100. That is the problem with any meta that is tried and true and stubbornly refusing to move. There might be better, competitive more fun GAR lists out there, but until people get out of their comfort zone and try new things, or are forced to due to changes incoming they'll never know.

3 hours ago, Uetur said:

I think Anakin is one of the strongest Jedi from a points perspective they have ever printed. I went back and looked at Commander Luke and Operative Vader and I would straight up choose Anakin over either of them. I personally don't get my Jedi into combat before turn 2 at the earliest and often turn 3 or 4, which means he could easily be powered up when it matters. You basically can have the old school wonder twins with him and Padme, except with token sharing and better synergy between the two units.

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA. It is kind of like if you offer me a $100 which is awesome but then say I need to give up $200 to get the $100.

anakin is definitely one of the strongest jedi characters.

which begs the question are they finally going to fix vader?

if anakin is only 160 points then commander vader should certainly not be 190 points. or he should get a major buff like native defensive surge.

4 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

Anything can fall victim here. I have only ever played Boba Fett once, and he died to a single Z-6 Rebel squad that got nine hits though. I only saved four. Does that make Boba bad? No, that's just crap luck.

Bad luck is different from average rolls though.

When discussing how survivable a unit is you should assume average rolls.

Boba Fett's survivability is pretty good based on average rolls. Operative Vader's survivability on the other hand SUCKS.

Boba Fett = 5 wounds / (1/3) = 15 expected hits

Operative Vader = 6 wounds / (1/2) = 12 expected hits

Operative Vader is absurdly fragile. Both commander vader and operative Vader should get native defensive surge IMO. Although commander vader should probably go down to 7 wounds if he gets native defensive surge.

Quote

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA. It is kind of like if you offer me a $100 which is awesome but then say I need to give up $200 to get the $100.

Depends how they get nerfed. Clonetroopers absolutely need to cost more points. And standby token sharing needs to be removed from the game.

I still think Anakin is borderline broken. And it would be a shame if he didnt get used because Rex is even more broken.

3 hours ago, Uetur said:

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA.

Which may explain FFG trying to get the point changes out when we get Ani and Maul. New meta means that he may have a chance to rise up as GAR finds new top tier list.

4 hours ago, Welshie13 said:

Obi Wan is a different matter. Not sure I see as much synergy.

In the interview Alex Davy says Ani/Obi-wan is a fun list, but not top tier.

If people think that raising the cost of the Clone units will encourage players to play with a more expensive commander than Rex then I'd love to see the logic behind that. I'm sure Clones are going to be changed soon, but I'd be surprised if they made them more expensive and then kept releasing costly commanders because people will keep defaulting to their strong Core/SF units with as cheap a commander as they can afford.

The only way a Jedi is going to get into a meta GAR list is if they drop the points of the core, with nerfs to bring them down a peg, or they make the Jedi so crazy strong he is a must take in every list, only guys I can see in that slot would be Yoda or Mace, either that or they under cost them by a lot.

GAR is weird, 800 points makes them really need to focus so much on shaving as much cost off as they can so that the things they need to have the extras can have them, not to mention I've seen R2 getting cut from lists recently simply because he doesn't have the Clone Trooper keyword, and people are sick of pulling him when if they pulled anything else in the army they'd get a Clone, this is another detractor from Anakin, he'd be the only none clone in your list if you took him with Rex, with anyone else what are you cutting out? ARCs? going down to 7 activations?

5 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

In case you missed it, the Alex Davy interview hinted at some of the changes coming in the patch and unless he was misleading us they will be big.

• All the heavies are being redone with an eye on all of the being the AAT in power level.
• Corps weapons will come down with the impact weapons being auto includes in a lot of list to counter anybody taking a heavy.
• Dewbacks, wookies, and pathfinders are all getting buffs

If I was a betting man Han, Vader, and Boba will also be getting buffs since they main idea is to get the OT faction on the same level as the other two. I really doubt any changes for Mandos since I have heard mostly positive things about them (personally I have only failed with them lol) and no idea on Papa Palp.

Mandos are fine, but they can just up and die to a bad roll so they are not the easiest unit to run and can feel bad lol. Funny enough you sort of want to run them like wookies right now (prepatch). They want to run on the flanks taking pot shots at enemies with their guns and not getting shot at. Their blast rockets are really good and can do some decent damage. Then they run in for the objective or into melee to tie up an enemy.

Yeah it does suck when that happens. a stormtrooper squad with a DLT and an extra dude knocked my mandalorian squad to two from 4 , and my friend's Mandalorian squad got plucked down to two frmo 4 from one Iden attack with an aim token.

@Nithorian The other change would be something that modifies the action/activation economy of the game to favour the higher cost characters, or even the inclusion of cheap Corps units that aren't clones (planetary militia for instance).

27 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

If people think that raising the cost of the Clone units will encourage players to play with a more expensive commander than Rex then I'd love to see the logic behind that. I'm sure Clones are going to be changed soon, but I'd be surprised if they made them more expensive and then kept releasing costly commanders because people will keep defaulting to their strong Core/SF units with as cheap a commander as they can afford.

I think the logic is if you cant spam as many clone units the value of Rex diminishes. Rex may also go up in points cost.

Because on the flipside if all GAR takes is Rex something is equally wrong with GAR.

There needs to be reasons for GAR to take other commanders. And right now cheap clonetroopers and cheap Rex are not conducive to that.

GAR should be a quality over quantity faction anyway. So this nonsense where they can spam as many units as everyone else and get upto 10-11 activations needs to curbstomped. FFG needs to make it very difficult for GAR to exceed 8-9 activations.

5 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

If I was a betting man Han, Vader, and Boba will also be getting buffs since they main idea is to get the OT faction on the same level as the other two. I really doubt any changes for Mandos since I have heard mostly positive things about them (personally I have only failed with them lol) and no idea on Papa Palp.

I wouldnt count on it. I bet you Vader still sucks just as much.

At most theyll probably reduce his cost from like 190 to 180 and he'll still be way worse than Anakin in almost every way lol.

I definitely think FFG will do the bare minimum and a lot of models will either slip through the cracks or wont get adequate enough buffs.

18 minutes ago, Khobai said:

I think the logic is if you cant spam as many clone units the value of Rex diminishes. Rex may also go up in points cost.

Because on the flipside if all GAR takes is Rex something is equally wrong with GAR.

There needs to be reasons for GAR to take other commanders. And right now cheap clonetroopers and cheap Rex are not conducive to that.

GAR should be a quality over quantity faction anyway. So this nonsense where they can spam as many units as everyone else and get upto 10-11 activations needs to curbstomped. FFG needs to make it very difficult for GAR to exceed 8-9 activations.

I think they'd be bottom tier then no matter how strong their units were, because everyone would just hide from them and then swarm the objective in the last two rounds, or wear them down with pierce to the point the army just doesn't function.

Right now a very effective (if extremely boring) CIS tactic is to get as many B1s on the board as they can, hide them all game, and then, go for the objective (usually a key positions or intercept, since CIS can easily get blue) on the last turn. The problem being with that many bodies fully healthy there is no army that has the fire power to stop them in 1 round, GAR would end up being like that just against any army that spams activations, they'd be so Action starved in lists with 8 or lower activations they'd be unable to do most objectives, and then you'd definitely see them cutting Obi Wan and Anakin and if Rex is up costed too much, him too and just use the 55 point generic commander.

If CIS players can hide that many B1s youre playing with way too much terrain.

The book says only 1/4 the board should be terrain with a good mix of terrain that blocks LoS and only provides cover.

If terrain is equally divided between LoS blocking terrain and cover providing terrain, that means only 1/8 of your opponents half of the board should be LoS blocking terrain. Good luck hiding all your B1s behind that.

When you play with too much terrain factions like CIS gain a huge advantage. Conversely, factions like imperials which rely heavily on range 4 shooting are at a disadvantage on boards with too much terrain. So whenever someone wants to fill the entire board with LoS blocking terrain I usually object to it and insist on going with the amount of terrain the rules reference says to use.

7 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Sorry, guess I'm not following. The Republic absolutely should have the most options for Force users. 10,000+ Jedi Knights vs the handful of half-trained wannabes, assassins, and cosplayers that the other factions have should solidly give them the advantage in number of releases. I don't see why the GCW era should "out do any other faction" in terms of Force Users when they're the era with the fewest and least powerful examples (big names like Palpatine, Vader, and Skywalker aside.)

Reaction to the article: Looks good. Anakin looks really meh base, but gets good fast with his cards. I'm not sure if he'll be any good paired with Obi, or even Rex, but it will be interesting to try. Force Barrier on both of them by itself makes for some interesting ideas, so we'll see.

Sorry, had a brain fart 🤯 . For some reason I was thinking Galactic Clone Wars not Galactic Civil War. Sorry for the confusion.

I totally agree and I was trying make the point that the Clone Wars era has way more to offer as far as Force users or at least should, so we may run into the problem more and more where the clones get a Force card that no one else has for a while. That’s why I was suggesting card packs may be the only way to catch the other factions up.

47 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

Sorry, had a brain fart 🤯 . For some reason I was thinking Galactic Clone Wars not Galactic Civil War. Sorry for the confusion.

I totally agree and I was trying make the point that the Clone Wars era has way more to offer as far as Force users or at least should, so we may run into the problem more and more where the clones get a Force card that no one else has for a while. That’s why I was suggesting card packs may be the only way to catch the other factions up.

I mean, that or we see exactly how many different versions of Vader and Luke FFG can come up with...

23 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I mean, that or we see exactly how many different versions of Vader and Luke FFG can come up with...

you mean how many different versions of vader they can screw up

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I mean, that or we see exactly how many different versions of Vader and Luke FFG can come up with...

That's exactly what I was thinking while reading his comment as well. Also, things like releasing a Phoenix Cell unit and then later releasing them as separate Operatives and Commanders. They do have some options, which isn't to say we will actually like those options.

6 hours ago, Uetur said:

I think Anakin is one of the strongest Jedi from a points perspective they have ever printed. I went back and looked at Commander Luke and Operative Vader and I would straight up choose Anakin over either of them. I personally don't get my Jedi into combat before turn 2 at the earliest and often turn 3 or 4, which means he could easily be powered up when it matters. You basically can have the old school wonder twins with him and Padme, except with token sharing and better synergy between the two units.

IMO his issue is actually the clones and their current META. Rex and the clone ball is so tried and true and so aggressively costed that until that changes (which is being hinted at) I see Anakin as DOA. It is kind of like if you offer me a $100 which is awesome but then say I need to give up $200 to get the $100.

I agree with this completely. Honestly, I would take not being able to share standby tokens if it meant we could bring the cost of corps clones down a little bit. If nothing else, maybe cheaper heavy weapons for them at the same base cost so we can get more units in there. I get that we're supposed to be a low activation, high damage output faction, but hurting us too much could put as a serious disadvantage compared to the other factions. I think the token sharing and cost are what separate us from being "clones" of the Empire... 😉

I am excited to see how Anakin ends up playing. My own take is that he is just like he was in the movies: very powerful if you can direct and control his advance, but if you over extend and get greedy he'll struggle mightily till he's bailed out by other units.

Makes me all the more excited to see what Maul will look like, or what other characters could potentially come out with a Flaw card!

I don't play CIS, but I'll probably pick up a Maul just to have the figure if the poses are as good as Anakins look

I feel the opposite about Anakin.

Anakin can very much be played conservatively. There isnt any reason to overextend or risk him. Because he's a very capable support commander and he can hang back and support his army until you can safely deliver him into melee.

Its Vader thats actually forced to be reckless and constantly overextend himself. Speed 1 forces you to always move Vader towards the enemy because you cant afford to waste any of his precious movement and if you dont get Vader in melee the points you spent on him are completely wasted. Anakin has the option of hanging back and supporting his army with force powers like barrier/guidance, reliable 2, two for one action token production with off/def stance, and handing out all those tokens to his troops with exemplar all while being able to do the whole move, saber throw, move thing better than darth vader because hes speed 2 with relentless. Anakin is a tremendous support commander, and because Anakin is highly mobile with speed 2 with jump 1 he also gets to dictate when he enters melee. there isnt a constant looming pressure to get Anakin into melee ASAP to earn his points back like there is with Vader. Vader's reckless one dimensional playstyle is the reason hes such a bad commander.

FFG got it completely backwards. Anakin should be the one thats forced to play recklessly. While Vader should way more conservative. In the movies Anakin is the one that lets emotion rule him and does things without thinking first while Vader is way more meticulous and calculating. Vader always waits for the exact right moment to appear and doesnt rush in haphazardly without thinking. Im also not a big fan of the fact that Anakin is a way better support commander than Vader. While Vader is absolutely terrible at supporting his army when hes the empire's second most capable commander after Thrawn. It really bothers me how badly they botched Vader... twice. I definitely think FFG needs to give Vader a complete overhaul with a completely new card and new command cards because hes the one character they shouldve gotten right.

22 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

I do. His 1 pip penalty is easy to manage, but the 2 and 3 don't play particularly well together. I think that the best way to use him is to take his 1 and either his 2 or 3 depending on how you want to use him.

I disagree. I think his 2 and 3 pips absolutely want to be played together. A Jedi without any form of charge or Mastery of the Force is going to be greatly limited, especially without an organic ranged weapon. You'll just have to be careful in how you play them, or accept the single suppression you'll get for not carrying out the requirements. If it's coupled with Inspire on another unit, or even accepting that you won't be able to assign him an order next round, it's not really a problem.

14 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I mean, that or we see exactly how many different versions of Vader and Luke FFG can come up with...

Oh, that's almost a certainty at this point. I mean, we're already getting version 3 with pilot sculpt commander Luke.