https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2020/10/15/stay-sharp/

I'm very curious about how Thermal Detonator works with template manipulations (Skilled Bombardier, Trajectory Simulator, Scum bomb pilots, etc.)

Say Emon Azzameen drops 2 Thermal Detonators, and he drops the first one using the 1 straight template and uses his ability to change it to a 3 turn. Is it the initial template or the final template used for the first bomb that matters for restrictions on where the second bomb can be placed? I'd imagine it's the latter, so for example Emon could drop his first one with 1 straight, change that into a 3 left turn, then drop the second one with a 1 straight, and change that into a 3 right turn, or a bomber with Trajectory Simulator + Skilled Bombardier could drop Thermal Detonators with 2+3 or launch them with 4+5 templates.

I also wonder about how many Thermal Detonator tokens they will provide with the expansion. Delayed Fuses + Thermal Detonators could easily result in a lot of bombs all over the mat. Luckily, I have a lot of Thermal Detonator tokens from my 1.0 stuff ready to be used if they only provide 2.

With Reload restoring 2 charges, I could see Andrasta + Thermal Detonators + Proximity Mines + Delayed Fuses Emon being a load of fun with the amount of coverage his bombs could provide. Skilled Bombadier Sol Sixxa too, though the lack of reload does make it a little less attractive there.

I certainly hope that the Rebels and Empire gain some new toys to match the toys for the other faction.

I wonder if Palpatine's shuttle is next?

The Besh configuration seems a lot better than the Esk option. Is there something I'm missing?

Overall it looks like a nice ship but I don't feel obligated to grab 4 of them. Which is fine I definitely see myself running 1 or 2.

57 minutes ago, librarian101 said:

I certainly hope that the Rebels and Empire gain some new toys to match the toys for the other faction.

Imperials do get a couple toys from this expansion.

Their TIE aces will probably appreciate Ion Limiter Overdrive. ILO + Afterburners = double repositioning after a speed 3+ red maneuver. If I'm not mistaken, this also gives Feroph and Vermeil a way to barrel roll.

They also have the best Thermal Detonator spam platform in the TIE Bomber. Nimble Bomber + Thermal Detonators = 6 locations to drop 2 of your bombs. Skilled Bombardier adds 3 Straight and 3 Banks as options. Alternatively, if the cost is 5 or less, you can take 6 Bombers with Thermals + Delayed Fuses and flood the mat with 24 bombs that all go off on the same turn.

Rebels don't get as nearly much out of it, but they could be quite fun with Sabine Crew or TIE Pilot. Sabine (TIE Pilot) with both Precision Ion Engines & Ion Limiter Overdrive has some crazy movement options, and Thermal Detonators casts a slightly larger net for Sabine Crew to trigger with. While they can't spread the bombs for coverage like Imperials and Scum can, you can include Delayed Fuses to put a fuse on only one of the Detonators so that you can threaten an area with Sabine-buffed bombs for 2 turns.

Unfortunately the real winners of the new TIE upgrades might be the First Order. FOs and Barons have access to both TIE upgrades, and all their TIEs can pair ILO with Pattern Analyzer for some action heavy red maneuvers. Edit: Forgot that Precision Ion Engines requires 1-3 speed K-Turns, FOs and Barons do not have K-Turns that slow. So it's just V-Wings and TIE /lns that get a piece of the P.I.E.

Edit: Another thing I just realized, with PIE you get to change the K-Turn to an S-Loop of your choice just before you're about to execute the maneuver . If PIE is cheap enough, Mauler and Scourge could benefit from that a lot if they go last. They would get to wait until after all the I5s and below move and cherry pick the best turn around option.

47 minutes ago, librarian101 said:

I certainly hope that the Rebels and Empire gain some new toys to match the toys for the other faction.

I suspect the empire will eventually get v wings. Vader flies one in the lords of the Sith novel ( which is part of the new cannon). Imperials used them heavily until the tie fighter came out.

54 minutes ago, reqent said:

I wonder if Palpatine's shuttle is next?

The Besh configuration seems a lot better than the Esk option. Is there something I'm missing?

Im assuming the cost point-wise kind of like the CLT vs 7B on the delta

how many TIE configurations are there? i don't play Imperial. Are these the first two or have they already released some??

2 hours ago, Sciencius said:

Me before fully processing the reqs on the card: "Neat. An idea I posted about a couple years ago is making it into the game. Nice to see someone else was thinking along the same lines."

Me after the entire card is processed in my head: "Drat... It's a ship locked config instead of a generic Illicit... "

1 hour ago, reqent said:

The Besh configuration seems a lot better than the Esk option. Is there something I'm missing?

Ion tokens are really handy.

Esk is neat to me, since it gives the ship Ion capacities, without also going up to 3 red dice. A mini-swarm of folks slapping stray Ion tokens on small-base ships can be game-changing. I hope it gets included in the probability calculator before too long, since I'd love to know for sure the chances, but I suspect that when the effect actually triggers and you've proc'd an Ion token on someone, it'll be really powerful in game.

Besh does improve locks a bit, you'll expect 1.75 instead of 1.5 hits on a locked 2-dice attack, which is pretty dang good, but Locks aren't always easy, aren't flexible in targeting, and don't have potential defensive benefit. It's a worthwhile benefit, but it's a lot smaller in effect than a missile or a TIE/x1's ATC, for the same amount of work. Esk can just focus lazily, and make decisions during the round.

Besh could easily be better, but Esk really tempts me.

1 hour ago, Enigami said:

I'm very curious about how Thermal Detonator works with template manipulations (Skilled Bombardier, Trajectory Simulator, Scum bomb pilots, etc.)

Say Emon Azzameen drops 2 Thermal Detonators, and he drops the first one using the 1 straight template and uses his ability to change it to a 3 turn. Is it the initial template or the final template used for the first bomb that matters for restrictions on where the second bomb can be placed? I'd imagine it's the latter, so for example Emon could drop his first one with 1 straight, change that into a 3 left turn, then drop the second one with a 1 straight, and change that into a 3 right turn, or a bomber with Trajectory Simulator + Skilled Bombardier could drop Thermal Detonators with 2+3 or launch them with 4+5 templates.

3 hours ago, Sciencius said:

3 turn left and 3 turn right use the same 3 speed template. If you use the turn template for one of the bombs the other bomb would need to be dropped with a straight or a bank template unless you're using a turn template of a different speed. (This locks out Havoc and Punisher Traj Sim Thermal Detonator stacking)

19 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Besh could easily be better, but Esk really tempts me.

Don't know much about bombing in general, but it seems that added slot from Besh might have some interesting value added for various shenanigans.

1 hour ago, Enigami said:

I also wonder about how many Thermal Detonator tokens they will provide with the expansion. Delayed Fuses + Thermal Detonators could easily result in a lot of bombs all over the mat. Luckily, I have a lot of Thermal Detonator tokens from my 1.0 stuff ready to be used if they only provide 2.

In an earlier picture of the ship spread, it had 4 tokens.

1 hour ago, Enigami said:

I'm very curious about how Thermal Detonator works with template manipulations (Skilled Bombardier, Trajectory Simulator, Scum bomb pilots, etc.)

Say Emon Azzameen drops 2 Thermal Detonators, and he drops the first one using the 1 straight template and uses his ability to change it to a 3 turn. Is it the initial template or the final template used for the first bomb that matters for restrictions on where the second bomb can be placed? I'd imagine it's the latter, so for example Emon could drop his first one with 1 straight, change that into a 3 left turn, then drop the second one with a 1 straight, and change that into a 3 right turn, or a bomber with Trajectory Simulator + Skilled Bombardier could drop Thermal Detonators with 2+3 or launch them with 4+5 templates.

I'm inclined to let it all work, so long as the two don't appear in the same place. Left and Right templates are different, as we see with stuff like the Starviper. I'd let a TIE bomber throw out a speed 2 Bank in either direction, or 2 bank + 2 straight.

I'm not sure about Finch Dallow. There's a reasonable case to be made that he couldn't use his ability on Thermal Detonators at all, since "they must be placed using a different template" implies they must be placed using a template .

For alternate timings (Genius, etc) I'd allow a single drop, but not a 2nd. There's nothing which makes me think a 2nd would be possible.

Just about everything else I can think of, I'd allow.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm inclined to let it all work, so long as the two don't appear in the same place. Left and Right templates are different, as we see with stuff like the Starviper.

They aren't different "templates" if they're the same speed though. They are the same template being used for a different bearing.

13 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

They aren't different "templates" if they're the same speed though. They are the same template being used for a different bearing.

I guess I just disagree with that.

The way "a [left bank] or [right bank] template" is written here says to me that these ought to be viewed as separate.

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

how many TIE configurations are there? i don't play Imperial. Are these the first two or have they already released some??

The ILO will be first in the TIE/rb pack, but the PIE is a first in this pack. These are the frst 2 we know of. There might be another one in the TIE/rb pack, because the description speaks of 12 upgrades but only 10 are spoilered.

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I guess I just disagree with that.

The way "a [left bank] or [right bank] template" is written here says to me that these ought to be viewed as separate.

Fair. I hadn't looked at the ship abilities, just dug through the rule books. FFG may need to add a Template entry in the RR to clarify though instead of relying on someone knowing the wording of abilities on pilot cards they may not have.

V-Wings are cool

So, do I need to up my preorder of these? I am down for two...

28 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

So, do I need to up my preorder of these? I am down for two...

I just upped mine from two to four. I thought about six then decided four was enough for now.

Hopefully these generic upgrades make it into the Fugitive and Collaborators squad pack. They'd be really nice on MGTs and HWKs (HWKs might like Thermals and even Concussions) if those are the ones in the squad pack. I'm holding out hope for an Illicit version of Esk too. As in same charge cost, still recurring, but hard capped at only one crit result being converted to an Ion token.

Can Deathrain perform 3 actions ?

Drop/Launch a Thermal, perform an action (e.g. focus), drop/launch the second Thermal, and now the second action? (e.g. lock or reload) and then after movement you perform your regular action (boost into lock ). Is that legal?

13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Me after the entire card is processed in my head: "Drat... It's a ship locked config instead of a generic Illicit... "

This is the kinda dastardly stuff that woulda been perfect for the people hoping for more thematic illicits to represent the fact that Scum just don't fight fair sometimes! Fluff it as a 'Pop out Ion Mount' or something...

Still, now the design space is open! I could see 'surprise! Tokens!" being explored in the future now that the V-wing has paved the way! Now that 'pseudo-munition attacks' are a thing I can definitely see some of the more exotic weaponry scum often use occupying that space.

14 hours ago, reqent said:

The Besh configuration seems a lot better than the Esk option. Is there something I'm missing?

Ion tokens are truly devistating in a very interesting way, because they create a huge focal point on the next turn as one ship becomes extremely vulnerable resulting in one player wanting to get uptime on that ship to finish it off with as much as it can while the opposing player tries to punish that uptime. A ship with an Ion token that is already ever so slightly out of position in some cases may as well be dead, and certain ships can be considered 'removed from game' for a turn or two even if you don't chase.

However, Ion tokens are hard to consistently apply without a LOT of attackers with them, which makes the matchup feel like a casino, as you need to get 2 hits with 'traditional' ion weaponry, which can be extremely difficult. It ends up making ions really bully 2 or 1 dice defenders but often just be '3 reds you overpaid for' post-turret nerf vs 3 green ships.

Crit results are canceled last. This means that, vs said ships, if you can force crits in some way, you can almost certainly guarentee an ionization result, and you can do it in a predictable 'once every two turns' manner that telegraphs REALLY CLEARLY to your opponent that its happening, especially if there is extra setup they can play around such as with Marksmanship. This allows an ion 'blaster' type weapon to have some of the healthier play properties of ion torpedoes or missiles, and makes it so the person using the ion weapon can generally know it will work.

Plus it probably will cost a bit less. But I can't stress enough how often people sleep on the ionization effect. Imagine knowing for a fact that you could get at range 1 of Vader or Fenn Rau with 3 ships in your list outside of their front arc and just... salivate for a second. That is the promise of the Ion Side, and a more consistent (with caveats) Ion effect seems to fit the new design direction of X-wing that it has been taking in these new releases that have a focus on ensuring consistent impact even vs ships that you can't normally consistently effect, without 'spiking' effects higher to push past those defenses.

Purely as a thematic issue, weren't the R7 series of astromechs only created after the fall of the Republic? I seem to recall them being contemporary with the E-wing.

Esk will be decent with Marksmanship. Choosing what to do with the Crit each time will be fun. If they have no shields, give them a crit damage. If they have shields, ion them.

Plus your opponent knowing you could do either will make them spend tokens more to make sure they stop whatever it is you are doing, making them easier targets for your other ships.

But that is a more niche use than the Besh config. So I can see why people wouldn't run it as much.