2 hours ago, Alzer said:

I always thought of"rogue" as representative of multiple crew, or improved automated systems, on a larger scale ship. But I suppose certain elite (or plot-armed, in Luke's case) pilots could fulfill that? The...irregularity of it on Irregular squadrons...( it's been a long day, I'm open to suggestions) is a bit irregular admittedly. I wouldn't to over-crank any of the existing Uniques though, the inate defense tokens and special abilities already put them so far above generics that the big foam cudgel in the sky is descending for them.

Actually, Luke and Vader aren't rated very high in the squadron tiers, so I think they should be revised to make them more competitive -- especially Vader. Luke is usually classified as a B or C grade squadron; and Vader is C or D grade. Vader's TIE Advanced is rarely seen any more in competitive play because he's over-priced for his mediocre ability, and he can be easily overwhelmed by multiple enemy squadrons -- mainly because he has 2 Braces instead of a Scatter and a Brace, like TIE and TIE/In Aces.

I think Vader's TIE Advanced should be revised: Replace 1 Brace with 1 Scatter, and add a secondary ability for Vader to ready 1 exhausted def. token by inflicting 1 damage to a friendly squadron at Range 1.

If Vader also gained the Rogue keyword, it would be justified increasing his point cost to 22-25.

I think all Luke needs is the Rogue keyword and perhaps increasing him to 20 points.

5 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

I think all Luke needs is the Rogue keyword and perhaps increasing him to 20 points.

Im all for Luke getting Rogue and becoming 20 points

5 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

Actually, Luke and Vader aren't rated very high in the squadron tiers, so I think they should be revised to make them more competitive -- especially Vader. Luke is usually classified as a B or C grade squadron; and Vader is C or D grade. Vader's TIE Advanced is rarely seen any more in competitive play because he's over-priced for his mediocre ability, and he can be easily overwhelmed by multiple enemy squadrons -- mainly because he has 2 Braces instead of a Scatter and a Brace, like TIE and TIE/In Aces.

I think Vader's TIE Advanced should be revised: Replace 1 Brace with 1 Scatter, and add a secondary ability for Vader to ready 1 exhausted def. token by inflicting 1 damage to a friendly squadron at Range 1.

If Vader also gained the Rogue keyword, it would be justified increasing his point cost to 22-25.

I think all Luke needs is the Rogue keyword and perhaps increasing him to 20 points.

Or, given the leaks, you just swap escort for protective screen on Vader. Change nothing else. Call it a day

9 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

Yes, that was my point too. Luke, Vader, and Wedge are exceptional pilots and have demonstrated their ability to seize the initiative in battle, which is why they shouldn't need to wait around for someone to give them orders. That's what the Rogue keyword is supposed to mean.

I think part of the problem is that the Rogue keyword is strongly associated with the squadrons from the Rogues & Villains pack, so some people think of it in a negative connotation because Han Solo was a scoundrel or Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, which is why they don't think it's appropriate for Luke or Vader.

They're still military pilots though, used to operating with military doctrine and coordination, which explains the lack of rogue, and why it makes sense on independent traders and more independent entitites.

Rogue didn't exist before w2.

5 hours ago, Church14 said:

Or, given the leaks, you just swap escort for protective screen on Vader. Change nothing else. Call it a day

What’s this “screen” ability again? I’m fuzzy on it.

What Vader really needs, flavor-wise, is Valen Rudor’s “reverse-Escort” ability, where he can’t be shot unless there are no other valid targets.

5 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

They're still military pilots though, used to operating with military doctrine and coordination, which explains the lack of rogue, and why it makes sense on independent traders and more independent entitites.

See, I think there are a bunch of valid justifications for a squadron having Rogue. Some have it because they’re independent operators (like Han, Boba). Some are military pilots who are trained to take the initiative and work independently (Rogue Squadron). Hera sort of serves as a mini mobile command platform, which is why she can hand out Rogue to local pals.

Whatever the justification (strong in the Force, some of the best pilots around, turn off their targeting computers whenever they damned well please, TYVM!), I feel like Vader and Luke oughtta have it.

3 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Whatever the justification (strong in the Force, some of the best pilots around, turn off their targeting computers whenever they damned well please, TYVM!), I feel like Vader and Luke oughtta have it.

I agree with Vader at the very least. A pilot separate from the chain of command who makes independent decisions that can turn the tide of the battle.

He's not being commanded by Konstantine or Ozzel or some flight controller grunt, if anything he's giving them orders from the fighter.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What’s this “screen” ability again? I’m fuzzy on it.

What Vader really needs, flavor-wise, is Valen Rudor’s “reverse-Escort” ability, where he can’t be shot unless there are no other valid targets

Per the German rulebooks that got put up: Protective Screen gives the squad with Screen Dodge 1 for every friendly Friendly squad engaged with the attacker that doesn’t also have screen.

So it’s not as strong as Valen’s text. You can choose to attack the squad with screen, but your damage is going to go way do if you do

30 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Per the German rulebooks that got put up: Protective Screen gives the squad with Screen Dodge 1 for every friendly Friendly squad engaged with the attacker that doesn’t also have screen.

So it’s not as strong as Valen’s text. You can choose to attack the squad with screen, but your damage is going to go way do if you do

Which begs the question: What’s “Dodge 1?”

8 hours ago, Church14 said:

Or, given the leaks, you just swap escort for protective screen on Vader. Change nothing else. Call it a day

Perhaps, but I think Vader inflicting damage on his wingmen to save himself is more thematic than Screen.

But if and when FFG updates all of the squadrons, I can understand Vader dropping Escort and gaining Screen instead -- just for the sake of simplicity.

Regardless, Vader should gain Rogue. I think most of us agree that it makes sense for Vader.

5 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Which begs the question: What’s “Dodge 1?”

Dodge 1: While you are defending against a squadron, during the Spend Defense Tokens step, you may choose 1 die to be rerolled.

7 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

Dodge 1: While you are defending against a squadron, during the Spend Defense Tokens step, you may choose 1 die to be rerolled.

Jeeez, 3 blue/1 black anti-squad and Counter 2 with an offensive reroll (on ANY attack, even a Counter), a defensive reroll, and 4 hull? That’s pretty good for only 17 points!

44 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Jeeez, 3 blue/1 black anti-squad and Counter 2 with an offensive reroll (on ANY attack, even a Counter), a defensive reroll, and 4 hull? That’s pretty good for only 17 points!

Yeah, I feel like 2-3 Delta 7’s will make a decent anti-fighter screen. Then again, they’re more expensive than some Imperial scatter aces.

And if the generics are 17 points, how expensive will the Aces be?

9 hours ago, bkcammack said:

Yeah, I feel like 2-3 Delta 7’s will make a decent anti-fighter screen. Then again, they’re more expensive than some Imperial scatter aces.

And if the generics are 17 points, how expensive will the Aces be?

Do some kitchen table rolling though. Delta-7s are worth the 17 points.

Just glancing at it. Looks like aces are 6-13 points more than their generics. Most 6-9 points more. I’m not 100% but it seems like the big increases are all high hull aces. So that’s 23-26 points for a delta-7 Ace that doesn’t have some seriously powerful ability text

9 hours ago, bkcammack said:

Yeah, I feel like 2-3 Delta 7’s will make a decent anti-fighter screen. Then again, they’re more expensive than some Imperial scatter aces.

And if the generics are 17 points, how expensive will the Aces be?

I'm gonna guess: more than 17 points

5 hours ago, geek19 said:

I'm gonna guess: more than 17 points

I belive it is how you say, wah waaah.

I always justify Vader having Escort because (despite having TIE wingmen in the movie) he can’t really be escorted. Certainly as Anakin, he was doing too much hot-dogging to benefit from an escort. Who could keep up? Also, it might suck game-play wise if he didn’t have it (and could be protected). He’s a heavy-hitter.

1 hour ago, Tayloraj100 said:

I always justify Vader having Escort because (despite having TIE wingmen in the movie) he can’t really be escorted. Certainly as Anakin, he was doing too much hot-dogging to benefit from an escort. Who could keep up? Also, it might suck game-play wise if he didn’t have it (and could be protected). He’s a heavy-hitter.

But a bunch of random people on the internet want a THING.

40 minutes ago, geek19 said:

But a bunch of random people on the internet want a THING.

Yes, and to be fair, I’d like said thing, too. Rogue, escortless Vader sounds awesome! 😄

41 minutes ago, geek19 said:

But a bunch of random people on the internet want a THING.

A thing with which this other random person on the internet apparently disagrees.

44 minutes ago, geek19 said:

But a bunch of random people on the internet want a THING.

How dare they want THING, when a true genius should instead want STUFF.

But yeah I'd be okay with no-Escort on Vader. Even if I'll never use him. The best Darth Vader clears out hallways.

1 hour ago, Alzer said:

How dare they want THING, when a true genius should instead want STUFF.

But yeah I'd be okay with no-Escort on Vader. Even if I'll never use him. The best Darth Vader clears out hallways.

I prefer socially distant Vader killing officers to intimidate gunners into firing better.

12 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Yes, and to be fair, I’d like said thing, too. Rogue, escortless Vader sounds awesome! 😄

It's called Morna

On 10/21/2020 at 10:15 AM, Church14 said:

Do some kitchen table rolling though. Delta-7s are worth the 17 points.

Just glancing at it. Looks like aces are 6-13 points more than their generics. Most 6-9 points more. I’m not 100% but it seems like the big increases are all high hull aces. So that’s 23-26 points for a delta-7 Ace that doesn’t have some seriously powerful ability text

Presumably all Delta-7 pilots are Jedi , which is presumably why even the generic squadron has such great abilities and costs so much. Although, TBF it's only one point more than a TIE Defender. And Maarek Stele is 21 points, only 5 points more expensive.

So the Delta-7 Aces might not be too much more expensive than the generic squadron. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is only 20 points -- perhaps Ahsoka, because she's a Padawan so her special ability might not be as powerful as the Jedi Knights and Masters.

I think that one Delta-7 Ace, probably Plo Koon, will be very expensive, perhaps 26-28 points -- but his special ability will presumably be worth it. I think the others will be expensive, but not prohibitively expensive.

Regardless, the upcoming Squadron Aces limit will prevent us from using too many Aces, so there should be plenty of points left over for generics.

On 10/20/2020 at 11:31 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

Jeeez, 3 blue/1 black anti-squad and Counter 2 with an offensive reroll (on ANY attack, even a Counter), a defensive reroll, and 4 hull? That’s pretty good for only 17 points!

Compare that to an A-Wing. It has the same relatively-low hull value and Counter 2, gains a black die in its anti-squadron armament and the rerolls, and loses 1 speed and the black anti-ship die. At 17 points, its on the upper end of generic squadron costs- more expensive than any generic Rebel squadron (50% more than the aforementioned A-Wing), and only cheaper than generic Firesprays, Decimators, and Gauntlet Fighters. Its a whole bundle of good, to be sure, but 17 points for a generic isn't cheap, so I think its pretty well-balanced for its cost and intended role, but I'm hardly an expert.