13 hours ago, dezzmont said:

So if you guess wrong on reinforce you are punished?

That would work fantastically for a 'systems phase reinforce' but less so for an action based reinforce.

I think on such a risk reward mechanic the reward should be worth the risk.

If you changed it that during the system phase you can reinforce your shield to one face and every attack you gain one evade result on that face. If you are attacked on the rear side all hit\crits go straight to Hull would work better.

You get a good defensive buff you opponent still has agency to get around it and give you punishment.

14 hours ago, dezzmont said:

So if you guess wrong on reinforce you are punished?

That would work fantastically for a 'systems phase reinforce' but less so for an action based reinforce.

Indeed. It is also be a bit better fluff-wise to be systems phase: angling deflectors is adjusting the systems on your ship. The pilot puts all the power in the front so he can charge the ISD head one while one more hit in the back quarter means he's done for. Put all your power in the front deflectors so you can fly down the trench. And of course we can have a fluff discussion about the difference between shields and deflectors if we want.

Getting down to brass tacks though isn't essentially the problem with the card not enough reward? You're sort of punished for taking it with losing a shield for not that great a reward in an option for spending your action sub-optimally (the sorts of ships that really need to reinforce already have that action.) You still have to "guess" right with the reinforce action if your ship activates early in the turn.

One of the other things with this sort of upgrade is similar to regeneration. The only way to win is to kill stuff so anything that makes it harder to kill stuff is/can be a bit of an NPE and the whole point of this sort of upgrade is to make stuff harder to kill. I think that's kind of why it got beaten with the nerf bat in the cradle.

I think this sort of card could also be good for more chassis specific upgrades or other sorts of systems phase upgrades. The freighters could get different versions of this each working a bit different. Move shields, reduce damage or add evade or green focus results, more shields for changing maneuvers to red, less shields for changing maneuvers to blue. I liked the idea of hits going to the hull in one section if the other is buffed. I've mentioned how I think there should be a lot more hot-rodding/modifications for the ships (especially for the scum and rebel freighters) and the shortcomings with Angled Deflectors is one place I think really shows we are missing out on that sort of thing.

On 10/19/2020 at 1:32 PM, Frimmel said:

Getting down to brass tacks though isn't essentially the problem with the card not enough reward? You're sort of punished for taking it with losing a shield for not that great a reward in an option for spending your action sub-optimally (the sorts of ships that really need to reinforce already have that action.) You still have to "guess" right with the reinforce action if your ship activates early in the turn.

Kind of, yes.

In order to be 'worth it' - regardless of cost - it has to mean you take more effort to kill than you otherwise would have.

You're already 1 shield down - so unlike most upgrades you have to block 1 damage during a game just to 'break even'.

Then, you're investing an action - assuming the action would have been an evade (since if you're hitting reinforce you're turtling up), then you've got to block another damage to break even with the damage that evade would have blocked.

Defensive focus isn't quite as good, especially on low agility, but the principle is the same - you'd only be reinforcing to cope with lots of incoming fire, and if you're facing a lot of attacks you can assume at some point a ship would be able to spend a focus or calculate defensively.

Add in the fact that a reinforce can't reduce damage to 0 and 1-damage attacks ignore your reinforce completely.

Reinforce is good. But for this card to be worth it, you need to be soaking something like 3-4 attacks in a single round, and even reinforced, that can cripple or destroy most snubfighters.

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Kind of, yes.

In order to be 'worth it' - regardless of cost - it has to mean you take more effort to kill than you otherwise would have.

You're already 1 shield down - so unlike most upgrades you have to block 1 damage during a game just to 'break even' .

Then, you're investing an action - assuming the action would have been an evade (since if you're hitting reinforce you're turtling up), then you've got to block another damage to break even with the damage that evade would have blocked.

Defensive focus isn't quite as good, especially on low agility, but the principle is the same - you'd only be reinforcing to cope with lots of incoming fire, and if you're facing a lot of attacks you can assume at some point a ship would be able to spend a focus or calculate defensively.

Add in the fact that a reinforce can't reduce damage to 0 and 1-damage attacks ignore your reinforce completely.

Reinforce is good. But for this card to be worth it, you need to be soaking something like 3-4 attacks in a single round, and even reinforced, that can cripple or destroy most snubfighters.

As its costed equivilant to shield upgrade, i see it as you need to block two damage to break even and thats at the cost of highly flexible focus actions that could possibly also block a damage or kill a ship, thereby blocking future damage.

It should cost 1 point, on all chassis. Costing a shield is already a bigger cost on higher agility ships, it doesnt need a higher cost on them too.

*sorry. Wrong thread*