Frankly I'm hoping the Fugitives and Collaborators Squadron pack is a pair of MGTs and a Scum HWK with a few new pilots for both and some nice upgrades.

12 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Counterpoint: without conversion kits, 2nd Edition would have died immediately.

I do agree with what I believe your sentiment is, in that FFG didn't get to learn off of each wave releasing, so OT ships got the least polish and lack new mechanics. But I will also say that not doing the conversion kits does not mean that they would have learned lessons from the wave iterations. "Fully execute" seems to be a lessen that they forgot after wave 2. Pre-movement reposition is now baked into a chassis. Pilots with high orange and purple keep popping up in factions that already have those.

This.

Within the family we spend way too much on X-wing. 3/7 of the total sum we did spend after the end of 1st edition (or to express in another way: additional 75% of the previous expenditure), without conversion kits we would have stopped any spending on X-wing, so no more money for FFG.

(the numbers are excruciating, Don't tell my better half. While 3-4 in the family are playing, and we also do Epic and HotAc, it still amassed to: About 1040 USD for 1st edition, about 773 for 2nd ed).

Another aspect playing is the feeling that OT players get when seeing e.g.

-Coaxium Hyperfuel

Real scummy, even pictures Han Solo from "Solo". But you can only equip it on the Sequel Triology Fireball. No Scum ship can equip it.

Or

-Terex

Pilot: 3 of your ships get suddenly Illicits

And esp. Crew: Strictly worlds better than K2SO (no stress, start of engagement phase!), but costing 2 less. wtf...

Or

-Starbird slash

Which will be so much better on Rz2s, it is not even funny. Rz2 really do not need any help.

On 10/6/2020 at 8:52 PM, theBitterFig said:

Part of the frustrating thing is that... (...) Like the frequently weak rules wordings...

Soo much this. I would like to slow them down a bit on releases, and instead do better rules. Keywords, keeping to the keywords, spell checking. And also quality control (backwards Belbullabs, non fitting Epic 2.0 bases, CR90 wrong dial on a 100(!) USD product etc).

5 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Another aspect playing is the feeling that OT players get when seeing e.g.

Han Solo from "Solo", but you can only equip it on the Sequel Triology Fireball.

Or

Which will be a lot better on Rz2, which really do not need any help.

Pic links didn't work. Try removing everything after ".png" in the urls.

8 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

There's plenty of Legends ships, there's no real need to wait for Disney to design a new ship for OT content. Some of them would actually be well received by fans more.

Like it or not, Disney/Lucasfilm seems to have a little more say now in what FFG releases. And since they took over, have we actually had a legends release besides the cards in conversion kits and re-prints?

We have to accept that, until shown otherwise, FFG don't make Legends ships anymore. So for the OT factions, it's pilot cards and upgrades or nothing now. At least until the Mandalorian and the Cassian and Obi-Wan shows give us more for that era.

I feel like not having just 3 metafactions in 2.0 really hurt the game overall. As so many of the newer ships coming out are for factions that a lot of fans just don't have the same interest in playing as.

At least before, I might have slotted a FO ship into my existing Imperial forces. But now that they can't be used together, I just have no interest at all in 6/7ths of the game's releases.

10 hours ago, Hippie Moosen said:

With any luck the squad packs that were leaked quite some time back are real. If they are real, I hope that they are the first squad packs to feature 3 different ship types in each. If that's the case we could see multiple new pilots for 3 platforms on each of the original factions. There's also the possibility of new configurations, titles, or upgrades for each as well. That could go a long way to revitalizing the OT factions for those who've been feeling the content drought.

Oh god, let this be real!

Rebel squadron = A-wing (Hera repaint), B-wing (prototype repaint) and Y-wing (Blue or Grey Squadron?)

Imperial squadron = TIE Defender (Vult Skerris repaint), TIE Interceptor (another Vult Skerris repaint) and TIE Bomber (?)

Unfortunately so far the squadron packs have followed a two-one format. Two ships of the same chassis and one. There's so far no reason to assume they will break this, although nothing wrong with speculation, expectations should be tempered with the knowledge of it being two-one and not one different ship of each.

4 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

Like it or not, Disney/Lucasfilm seems to have a little more say now in what FFG releases. And since they took over, have we actually had a legends release besides the cards in conversion kits and re-prints?

We have to accept that, until shown otherwise, FFG don't make Legends ships anymore. So for the OT factions, it's pilot cards and upgrades or nothing now. At least until the Mandalorian and the Cassian and Obi-Wan shows give us more for that era.

We still got legends ships at the tail end of 1.0 under Disney. Kimogila, gunboat, tie aggressor, scurgg, the scum ace pack etc.

It *can* happen. It’s just been 2.0 since the new releases were canon only. If ffg needs to sell new models faster than Disney can make new canon ships, they’ll be able to do it.

My belief about squadron packs is that it has less to do with having to keep the same handful of ships and more to do with being vessels for shipping new upgrades that have come out but they were unable to place them in old factions either because the card didn’t exist yet, or because they had to keep the promise they made about not having to repurchase an old ship just for cards. Beyond that, I’m sure some degree of research suggests to them they will sell alternate paint of old classics with these new upgrades and pilots more than selling completely esoteric legends ships (which to be honest, we are getting super esoteric if we have to dig for a Not-reprinted new legends ship)

13 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

We still got legends ships at the tail end of 1.0 under Disney. Kimogila, gunboat, tie aggressor, scurgg, the scum ace pack etc.

It *can* happen. It’s just been 2.0 since the new releases were canon only. If ffg needs to sell new models faster than Disney can make new canon ships, they’ll be able to do it.

My belief about squadron packs is that it has less to do with having to keep the same handful of ships and more to do with being vessels for shipping new upgrades that have come out but they were unable to place them in old factions either because the card didn’t exist yet, or because they had to keep the promise they made about not having to repurchase an old ship just for cards. Beyond that, I’m sure some degree of research suggests to them they will sell alternate paint of old classics with these new upgrades and pilots more than selling completely esoteric legends ships (which to be honest, we are getting super esoteric if we have to dig for a Not-reprinted new legends ship)

Pretty much my thoughts and the only legends ships we've gotten released in 2.0 are all scum. The M3A, the Z-95 (at least the AF4), The Jumpmaster.

This is probably due to Scum having a bit more 'looser' rules. I can see LFL putting up a bit more resistance regarding something like the E-Wing, K-Wing, TIE Aggressor and the TIE Phantom etc...although I think the argument of pre-existing players will force them to have to sign off on some kind of new canon for them, not that these can't be adapted.

The ONLY ship that I am surprised at....is the Decimator. Although it did appear in Star Wars Commander and as such is part of new canon...soooooo *shrug* maybe it wasn't a contentious thing.

Personally, just give us more pilots for all ships in Empire and Rebels and I'll be happy. I also agree about more configs or alternate builds.

4 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

Like it or not, Disney/Lucasfilm seems to have a little more say now in what FFG releases. And since they took over, have we actually had a legends release besides the cards in conversion kits and re-prints?

We have to accept that, until shown otherwise, FFG don't make Legends ships anymore. So for the OT factions, it's pilot cards and upgrades or nothing now. At least until the Mandalorian and the Cassian and Obi-Wan shows give us more for that era.

Well it was the licensor who "suggested" that Force be represented in the game.

We were still getting Legends content with Disney at the helm as they took over in 2012. Now perhaps some of that was stuff already approved and in the pipeline before the purchase and new directives had not been issued. It has certainly seemed since Last Jedi that there has been a de-emphasizing of the old Legends material in the various tie-in products.

I also point out though that Disney has not really divested themselves of Legends. They have appeared quite willing to allow the old-canon EU to remain in print in comics and novels.

I think there is likely a bit of turmoil regarding licensed products at the moment. I saw an article about why the nicer sorts of collectibles related to the sequels weren't being released and the response was there just wasn't any interest in them. I suspect the licensor wants tie-ins to the new films and is encouraging them and discouraging Legends and OT tie-ins and the licensees aren't all that eager to produce the sequel tie-ins.

I see the sequels stuff languish in my local collectible shop. I think the OT stuff we're still getting overall in Star Wars tie-ins is to a degree necessary for Disney to allow (or simply contractually obligated to allow) to not have producers of tie-in merchandise just not renew their license and have the well dry up. I wonder how much of the sequels stuff we've seen is produced because of contractual obligations on the parts of the licensees as opposed to profitable pursuits.

The new Star Wars Squadrons videogame could have been given a sequels skin. I wouldn't have bought it though. I think Disney would like it if only their five films and Mandalorian were the entirety of Star Wars merchandise. But I think they also know there wouldn't be much of a market for that. I think that the sequels factions are successful in X-wing as much because of the drought of OT content as much as engagement with them as a faction. And that is likely a point of contention on both ends of the license agreement.

A-Wings and Rebel HWK190s definitely need some support. My two favorite ships and I probably wouldn't touch em if they didn't hold that title.

42 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I suspect the licensor wants tie-ins to the new films and is encouraging them and discouraging Legends and OT tie-ins and the licensees aren't all that eager to produce the sequel tie-ins.

I see the sequels stuff languish in my local collectible shop. I think the OT stuff we're still getting overall in Star Wars tie-ins is to a degree necessary for Disney to allow (or simply contractually obligated to allow) to not have producers of tie-in merchandise just not renew their license and have the well dry up. I wonder how much of the sequels stuff we've seen is produced because of contractual obligations on the parts of the licensees as opposed to profitable pursuits.

The new Star Wars Squadrons videogame could have been given a sequels skin. I wouldn't have bought it though. I think Disney would like it if only their five films and Mandalorian were the entirety of Star Wars merchandise. But I think they also know there wouldn't be much of a market for that. I think that the sequels factions are successful in X-wing as much because of the drought of OT content as much as engagement with them as a faction. And that is likely a point of contention on both ends of the license agreement.

I definitely agree with this: the facts are for whatever reasons you want to believe or argue in favor of (please don’t in this thread, we’ve had enough ST debates), the sequel content merch does not sell as well for anyone who is making Star Wars merchandise. X-wing does have stronger ST sales for sure. I don’t necessarily know what is different between us and regular old merchandise. Perhaps we are just flying space ships and don’t care because the only names and faces are on the cards and we’re looking at our minis? Perhaps we just are more accepting of all SW? Who knows.

I know I originally didn’t bother to convert my resistance stuff into 2.0, but the rz2 won me over with just how good a ship chassis it was in the game. And for me, I’ve been hooked a bit by the pay style now - it’s not “oh I’m hyped to fly these guys from the movies!” but rather “oh yeah it’s my chance to play aces!”

6 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Another aspect playing is the feeling that OT players get when seeing e.g.

-Coaxium Hyperfuel

Real scummy, even pictures Han Solo from "Solo". But you can only equip it on the Sequel Triology Fireball. No Scum ship can equip it.

Or

-Terex

Pilot: 3 of your ships get suddenly Illicits

And esp. Crew: Strictly worlds better than K2SO (no stress, start of engagement phase!), but costing 2 less. wtf...

Or

-Starbird slash

Which will be so much better on Rz2s, it is not even funny. Rz2 really do not need any help.

It really hard to read through this thread and not view it as people feel like its greener on the other side of the faction fence.

I play Rebels and Resistance and there are elements of both I really enjoy. However I really have to point out, that just cause Resistance gets new toys does mean thier any good. The transport is DOA save Cova, the starfortress is meta, useless, the fireball is a funny ship but its not making META waves. I think anyone here would struggle to think of a list in Resistance through v2 that broke the Meta or is considered OP. Even 5A's or Reywing isn't coming anywhere close to as power level of a OT Fenn Boba list or currently Dash.

Yet folks still complain about the new toys, let's address them.

Coaxium Hyperfuel - doesn't even see play with the fireball, but it not restricted to Resistance, SCUM, just doesn't have a chassis to support it. Which is surprising when it has 19 to pick from, 12 more than Resistance has I might add!

Starbirdslash - Yes yes... the RZ-2 is a good ship, the resistances only top tier ship! Did this chassis need new toys? No it didn't, however did the faction? Yes certainly it did! The Resistance has not got the depth of support or passive rerolls like republic, it relies on tricks and gimmicks! Most of which have fallen flat! Looking at you "it's the resistance". It needed something like Starbirdslash to add more play options on the limited number of viable ships.

However just because this is better on RZ-2's doesn't mean it doesn't give rebels new interesting options on the RZ-1.

People keep looking over and considering what others have and they don't. If you like the looks of what over there so much start playing it. Especially now we're all mostly on TTS, No big investment required. You can try this stuff out and see if its all great over here in PT\ST land, like you imagine. You'll probably find it isn't.

That said OT stuff could use some TLC for sure, but a few card pack with new pilots is what I'm loving for.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I know I originally didn’t bother to convert my resistance stuff into 2.0, but the rz2 won me over with just how good a ship chassis it was in the game. And for me, I’ve been hooked a bit by the pay style now - it’s not “oh I’m hyped to fly these guys from the movies!” but rather “oh yeah it’s my chance to play aces!”

The ST stuff looks like OT stuff and it's new and the OT stuff is "old and busted." I think X-wing is the place where the create a doppelganger of Star Wars strategy of the ST was successful.

5 hours ago, Ebak said:

Unfortunately so far the squadron packs have followed a two-one format. Two ships of the same chassis and one. There's so far no reason to assume they will break this, although nothing wrong with speculation, expectations should be tempered with the knowledge of it being two-one and not one different ship of each.

This is very true. Personally I'm not expecting 3 different ships in those packs, again assuming they aren't a made up bit of internet gossip, but it's something that I would very much like to see. It's a pipe dream more than anything really, and certainly not something I'd hold against FFG if the pack doesn't fit that dream. 3 different ships in a squad pack would just have a greater variety of new stuff, and new stuff is what I'm hoping for in regard to my Rebel collection. 2 of 1 and 1 of another would still provide that, and I'd be happy with it, but the alternative could be a bit nicer IMO.

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 2:43 AM, DarthEnderX said:

I feel like not having just 3 metafactions in 2.0 really hurt the game overall.

I'm whole-heartedly on the opposite side of that coin.

The ONLY reason I'll playing 2.0 is that there were two "old" factions that were easy to covert into new factions for me, and two brand new factions that let me get in on the ground floor.

I think having 7 options is awesome. I wish it were more: I wish Scum was broken into something sensible like Black Sun + Hutts +Mandalorians with some crossover ships. I also wish the EU would get tapped to make the EU factions of New Republic and Imperial Remnant.

Quote

As so many of the newer ships coming out are for factions that a lot of fans just don't have the same interest in playing as.

I doubt that is true. Many folks are plenty happy to see the Republic and Separatists as options.

Personally, as a 1.0 Imperial, I like being a 2.0 Resistance player and getting to toss Xs, As, and YTs on the table while at the same time not feeling like I'm rehashing 4 years of missed Rebel know-how.

To wit, I'm not a big fan of the ST, but looking at T-70s and RZ-2's on a table feels just the same as playing Rebels.

Quote

At least before, I might have slotted a FO ship into my existing Imperial forces. But now that they can't be used together, I just have no interest at all in 6/7ths of the game's releases.

Again, Resistance and FO are basically Faux Rebels and Faux Empire, respectively.

If gameplay > fluff, who cares?? Play the corresponding faction are see new stuff arrive. Sheesh, it's almost like a MtG player saying he's mono-blue, so 4/5ths of the cards are DOA.

Lastly, we were all warned about this 2 years ago. It really should come as no surprise that Rebels and Imperials are in perfect hibernation.

7 factions is too much for me honestly. I don’t Mind them existing. But I’ve finally reconciled myaelf to the fact I can’t afford nor do I have the time or energy to play them all.

ive largely dropped resistance, scum and CIS. But I still buy lots of CIS cuz republics need something to shoot lol. It’s also the quirkiest factor which is fun to try but too much trouble to get good at.

58 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

7 factions is too much for me honestly. I don’t Mind them existing. But I’ve finally reconciled myaelf to the fact I can’t afford nor do I have the time or energy to play them all.

ive largely dropped resistance, scum and CIS. But I still buy lots of CIS cuz republics need something to shoot lol. It’s also the quirkiest factor which is fun to try but too much trouble to get good at.

I feel the same. I converted Resistance but don't buy/play them. I hadn't bought into scum when 2.0 was announced and still haven't. I've limited myself to the 2 I was invested in (imperial/rebel) and clones.

23 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I think having 7 options is awesome.

But it's literally LESS options.

It's not like those other factions wouldn't still be there. You just can't use them TOGETHER. Which means you have few combinations of those ships to play as. It's more restrictive, not less.

23 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I doubt that is true. Many folks are plenty happy to see the Republic and Separatists as options.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have added Republic and Separatist. I'm saying they should have been grouped together with Rebels and Imperials the same way Resistance and First Order were in 1.0.

You should be able to fly an Eta-2 alongside your X-Wings if you want and not have to buy a whole new faction.

23 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Sheesh, it's almost like a MtG player saying he's mono-blue, so 4/5ths of the cards are DOA.

It's nothing like that, because MtG always allows you to mix colors in your deck if you want. X-Wing 2.0 does not allow you to mix factions.

You're not CHOOSING to be(for example) mono-First Order, the game's rules FORCE you to be mono-First Order.

Also, Magic doesn't have expansions where the only Blue cards are rereleases of old cards while other colors get actual new cards.

23 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Lastly, we were all warned about this 2 years ago. It really should come as no surprise that Rebels and Imperials are in perfect hibernation.

I didn't say I was surprised. I just said I hated it.

4 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

But it's literally LESS options.

Only if you define "options" as "permutations."

You now have 7 options for factions, twice as many as before. And you have the option to play any ship that exists, but yes, maybe not with the other ones you want.

Quote

I'm not saying they shouldn't have added Republic and Separatist. I'm saying they should have been grouped together with Rebels and Imperials the same way Resistance and First Order were in 1.0.

You should be able to fly an Eta-2 alongside your X-Wings if you want and not have to buy a whole new faction.

From an aesthetics POV, I'm glad to see the Eras as separate factions, and not just Light Side, Dark Side, and Neutral.

But more importantly, this level of compartmentalization is way better for maintaining balance.

Quote

X-Wing 2.0 does not allow you to mix factions.

I would like to see this be more of a thing, admittedly. Let's get Boba Fett/Firespray back as an Imperial one-off, and create Shuttle Tydirium/Lambda as a Rebel one-off.

I'd like to see some sort of Mercenary mechanic to allow some Scum ships to work with anyone.

I'd like to see factionless ships (like maybe from The Corporate Sector) that can co-fly with any faction.

But I think that making this the exception to the rule is far better for balance than 3 massive catch-all factions.

Amusingly, your reticence to change factions is exactly what makes me think that 7 different Faction Identities is actually good for the game--players can explore a more manageable chunk of the game, and develop an identity around a combination of Light/Dark + Era. The unfortunate part is that the one you like best needs the least new ships.

And believe me, I'm not unsympathetic: I defected from the Empire because the TIE Interceptor got screwed and STILL has seen no love in 2.0.

On 10/9/2020 at 3:57 PM, Blail Blerg said:

7 factions is too much for me honestly. I don’t Mind them existing. But I’ve finally reconciled myaelf to the fact I can’t afford nor do I have the time or energy to play them all.

As a counterpoint, would you have the energy and time to fly them all just because they were in one massive Light/Dark/Neutral blob?

On 10/9/2020 at 4:57 PM, Target_2.0 said:

I feel the same. I converted Resistance but don't buy/play them. I hadn't bought into scum when 2.0 was announced and still haven't. I've limited myself to the 2 I was invested in (imperial/rebel) and clones.

Well, yeah.

I have a sizable Imperial collection that honestly is mostly gathering dust right now despite having a conversion kit (in part because the kit did a piss-poor job or handling my needs).

So these days I find myself as a Republic player, with an occasional dabble in the Resistance because to me, flying a T-70 vs a T-65 means nothing noteworthy--I'm flying an X-Wing.

Which is one reason I am glad the ST ships got independent factions--let's not pretend the TIE/ln and TIE/FO have any reason to be 2 options in the same faction.

It's one reason I think the T-85 still has not made the game: what the heck are they going to do to make a 3rd X-Wing feel significant, especially when it will be in the same faction as the T-70.

And to keep banging this gong: if FFG made New Republic and Imperial Remnant factions, current Rebel and Imperial players would be able to port over about 1/2 their collection, then experience faction growth with the addition of EU ships like the TIE Droid, A-9 Interceptor, etc.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But more importantly, this level of compartmentalization is way better for maintaining balance.

This. 3 Big factions would be a nightmare to balance. FFG has already managed to maneuver themselves into corners in 2.0 (e.g. with all these powerful force crew Republic now cannot get a cheap crew carrier; e.g. Nym and Sabine throwing breaks on bomb carriers in Scum and Rebels, with Sloane and Vader crew Empire probably wont get a cheap crew carrier like TIE bomber shuttle etc etc), with larger factions they would be even more restricted. Only way out would be either having a mandatory very restricted Hyperspace like selection (actually lower number flyable ships...), or (finally) having banlists where certain combos of Ship A with pilot B and upgrade C are disallowed. Making squadbuilding more complicated.

-------

Then also with 3 Big factions many more ships would be gathering dust. And development of interesting new options would be more limited. FFG's instruments for balance and differenciation are a bit too blunt

-200 pts is a restricted range, also they managed already to deprive them of options by artificially compressing the range too much (all the time lowering the generics, refraining from raising the powerhouse aces) it's getting pretty tight nowadays in the low point range

-never introduced different attack dice (2-4 attack dice and 0-3 defense dice as a range is pretty terrible for development)

Too many ships with similar rules and roles. As perfect balance is not achievable, more ships than would be not fielded as you have a superior option in the same large faction (e.g. the large faction Scum now: Scyks, MGT, Z95: do you see any Scum Z95?) And others will be everywhere (e.g. Kylo, Inteceptors and Defenders being Empire in 1.0, being everywhere).

So choices would be actually more limited, you could fly less than now.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

And to keep banging this gong: if FFG made New Republic and Imperial Remnant factions, current Rebel and Imperial players would be able to port over about 1/2 their collection, then experience faction growth with the addition of EU ships like the TIE Droid, A-9 Interceptor, etc.

The other side of the medal is FFG cannot drive compartmentalisation too far. Faction's niche too small to have enough interesting ships in lore or attraction-wise too unknown/too far into EU that the average player would be interested (unless power or feature creep).

That said, above is not totally out of the window. With the piece of trash "Rise of Skywalker" was it looks like ST era mouse merchandise rots on the shelf. So Disney is developing other eras more, e.g. the Mandalorian timeline. Or the option of Ahsoka and Sabine searching for Ezra.

And would have the option of fixing the E-wing

8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But more importantly, this level of compartmentalization is way better for maintaining balance.

Mmm, that's probably true. But it doesn't change the fact that my chosen faction sometimes goes entire waves now without getting a new ship.

And there's no getting around that that hurts my interest in the game.

Fluff matters. This is a licensed game. If the fluff wasn't meant to be a major selling point, why not shove a Falcon into Empire?

Like I get not personally engaging with the game on this way (sincerely, X-wing is a cool set of mechanics and its super valid to engage with it on a purely mechanical level), but this is a Star Wars game. "They are just mechanical functions" was a lame excuse when Magneto was de-confirmed for Marvel Vs Capcom, forget about as an excuse for why you should stop playing Luke Skywalker in a Star Wars game. You should imagine faction locked players almost engaging with this game likes its a role-playing game to understand why they might care about the 'class imbalance' hurting their ability to enjoy the game.

I have heard people say this a couple of times and can find no warning of this nature. Maybe my google fu is weak. Could I get a link to something of the sort?

I am skeptical they out and out said 'we will not be supporting OT factions with any new content.' That would be uh.... an... interesting marketing decision to say the least. Forget about the game not having the most iconic conflict and its literal namesake in it, imagine trying to sell a Star Wars game actively saying you intend to snub the most beloved era of the setting.

Also, there is a lot of evidence this was not the plan, like the wave 1 cards in the Rebel conversion kit, or how the conversion kits were structured with very extreme and obvious holes in the faction. And a major promise of 2.0 was that the T-65 would always be a meta piece, because a big complaint about 1.0 that it fell out of the meta and was utterly replaced, which strongly indicates that they weren't just gunna abandon the factions that held these pieces. And part of the explicit, stated reason 2.0 exists was to ensure that new releases didn't overshadow old stuff like it did in 1.0, so we were actually primed to expect the opposite of the OT getting abandoned.

The difference between '1 out of 5 releases are for me' and '0 out of 5 releases are for me' can't be overstated. The difference is literally infinite, and it shows in how that affects customer behavior.

This is actually pretty marketing 101 stuff. If you keep your customers in the dark or waiting for too long, you create negative anticipation. Basically the expectations of any new OT product are so impossibly high that it 'buffer overflowed' and now people actually low key feel negativity thinking about them because it reminds them of all the wait, lack of communication, and missing out, which is exactly why you get threads that are people saying 'if this product isn't god **** perfect I probably will quit' like this one.

Quote

"General talk about faction mixing"

I am in agreement that 'lightside vs darkside' would be lame and doesn't make a ton of sense. Part of being rebel is not being resistance or republic, and while subdividing too hard obviously is causing problems, I like the aspects of my faction that are unique, even if those things tend to preform poorly or are rare and under-developed.

And I don't think splitting Scum makes sense either unless the faction system was supplemented and you were allowed to mix at least a little. I don't think it is a terrible idea to have Scum get sub-faction tags, and work on those in general, so a 'subfaction' game mode can be curated and cards that encourage subfaction 'purity' could exist, but Scum being an eclectic mix of weirdos kinda works and its better than having... what... 10 factions splinter out of them? The main problem with scum is their mechanical identity is weak, more than their thematic one, as their weird bag of tricks that they were sold on didn't pan out and they got pivoted to balance around having super fearsome duelist ships like the Fang, Viper, and Firespray. Another casualty of 'no support post-conversion kit' despite the fact that the illicit slot was very clearly under-developed with room to 'grow.'

Ideally, the game should make you feel really pumped to do so, without making you feel forced, but right now it makes you feel forced and makes it feel REALLY bad to do so if your faction is important to you, you feel almost like its being torn from your hands. Branching to other factions needs to be dramatically softened and make you feel good about that piece as a 'bridge' piece that both lets you anchor yourself to your old faction while you go and explore what is out there, if that makes sense. A way to let you mentally still exist as an "X Faction Player" even once you get 100 dollars deep into Republic or whatever.

I think what X-wing really needs long term is rules for 'allies' in extended, or some third mode (Otherspace, perhaps?). stuff like Boba with the Empire as an Imperial player buying Boba with points that can be used to buy allies is probably more clean than creating a lot of specific, fluff exceptions that limit what you can do that don't actually let you run wild with your dumb 12 year old imagination because, to reiterate, part of the appeal is being able to act out silly little scenarios your 12 year old mind would think up with the excuse that your doing it in a structured game with rules and are totally noooooot writing fanfiction where Jyn Erso and Kyle Kartan teamed up to steal the death star plans, honest.

Would getting 66 or 80 or whatever points that you could use to buy cross faction ships and upgrades unbalance extended? The answer is extended is already unbalanced, and mostly serves as a vehicle for keeping casual players engaged and playing the game and use weird toys that don't fit well into the 'competitive' game, and if you care about such things you should man the battlements of fort hyperspace.

We already kiiiinda have this rule in Epic, where you can mix ships (but not upgrades on ships) and at the very least it might be a fun alternative mode for the list-techers to really play with, and to let you do wacky lore things like running the entire Skywalker family in one list.

I might actually try to experiment with an "Otherspace" mode with some friends to see how it pans out. See what kinda wacky nonsense we can come up with that ruleset.

The rules reference guide makes reference to allied ships now. I could see the possibility of a casual format coming that allows a handful of points allowing hiring of an ally. Probably Rebels and Resistance, empire and FO, and anyone taking a little scum (maybe?)

11 hours ago, Managarmr said:

-200 pts is a restricted range, also they managed already to deprive them of options by artificially compressing the range too much (all the time lowering the generics, refraining from raising the powerhouse aces) it's getting pretty tight nowadays in the low point range

-never introduced different attack dice (2-4 attack dice and 0-3 defense dice as a range is pretty terrible for development)

I think I actually prefer that them core game mechanics remains simple, and I suspect this is a drawing point of the game. While I hate when "git gud" is hurdled at a player as an off-handed dismissal of a complaint, it is a significant component of a player's task in this game. If you paired "gid gud" with complex rules, lots of players would quit within a handful of games.

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Too many ships with similar rules and roles. As perfect balance is not achievable, more ships than would be not fielded as you have a superior option in the same large faction (e.g. the large faction Scum now: Scyks, MGT, Z95: do you see any Scum Z95?) And others will be everywhere (e.g. Kylo, Inteceptors and Defenders being Empire in 1.0, being everywhere).

I really don't see this as an issue. In the long run, most ships boil down to The Ace. The Squint has never been anything more than TIE Soontir Fel. So, a ship in the same niche could stand out because of a singular pilot and work out just fine for most players in terms of how they actually play the game.

And, while most people would hate the idea, if a lot of non-reprinted 1.0 ships stayed non-reprinted for awhile, some niches might be backfilled with actual new product.

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The other side of the medal is FFG cannot drive compartmentalisation too far. Faction's niche too small to have enough interesting ships in lore or attraction-wise too unknown/too far into EU that the average player would be interested (unless power or feature creep).

Fair enough. @dezzmont's idea about subfactions could certainly be a solution to this problem.

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That said, above is not totally out of the window. With the piece of trash "Rise of Skywalker" was it looks like ST era mouse merchandise rots on the shelf. So Disney is developing other eras more, e.g. the Mandalorian timeline. Or the option of Ahsoka and Sabine searching for Ezra.

Who knows. . .maybe Lucas really does his version of the ST and adds to the mash.

I used to say that SW was better than Trek with all the inconsistencies. But that ship sailed when the EU got annulled.

8 hours ago, dezzmont said:

Fluff matters. This is a licensed game. If the fluff wasn't meant to be a major selling point, why not shove a Falcon into Empire?

You're preaching to the choir, here.

I have no problems with fluff-related crossovers. I never had a meltdown about a certain colorful TIE, and have been lamenting the lack of Shuttle Tydirium for ages.

There is no reason these things shouldn't exist for casual players to have fun with. And the DIY argument is BS (see below).

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I have heard people say this a couple of times and can find no warning of this nature. Maybe my google fu is weak. Could I get a link to something of the sort?

I am skeptical they out and out said 'we will not be supporting OT factions with any new content.' That would be uh.... an... interesting marketing decision to say the least.

So, it was in a video as 2.0 was being announced or had just dropped, as kind of a discussion of where the game is headed. Sorry, but I'm not going to work on finding it over coffee today, but essentially the head designer said something along the lines of "we consider the OT factions mostly complete" and "the future of X-Wing Miniatures is in the new factions."

Rebels aren't done until we have Tiree and Pops in Y-Wings, and a stolen Rogue One. But I get where FFG is coming from--there is a whole lot of work to be done in getting 4 new factions up to speed, and a faction with 15 ships already isn't high priority.

One factor to consider nowadays is the experience of having a Wave drop. In 1.0, no matter what, you got a new ship. In the beginning it was 2 each, and when Scum came along it was at least 1 each, and maybe you were the lucky faction to get the "extra" 4th ship (which was Scum for a long time, to get ship count up). Now, dropping 3 ships means over half the players didn't get anything new.

FFG is never going to be able to make 7-ship Waves, so older players are going to have to get used to the new normal. As an Epic enthusiast, I've been trained to live with "negative anticipation," I suppose.

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I don't think it is a terrible idea to have Scum get sub-faction tags, and work on those in general, so a 'subfaction' game mode can be curated and cards that encourage subfaction 'purity' could exist, but Scum being an eclectic mix of weirdos kinda works and its better than having... what... 10 factions splinter out of them?

Agreed. And FFG really need to start designing around keywords like Pirate, Hutt, Bounty Hunter, etc. It would add layers of flavor without diluting existing factions.

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Branching to other factions needs to be dramatically softened and make you feel good about that piece as a 'bridge' piece that both lets you anchor yourself to your old faction while you go and explore what is out there, if that makes sense. A way to let you mentally still exist as an "X Faction Player" even once you get 100 dollars deep into Republic or whatever

This is essentially my argument for New Republic and Imperial Remnant (sub)factions, so I totally agree.

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limit what you can do that don't actually let you run wild with your dumb 12 year old imagination because, to reiterate, part of the appeal is being able to act out silly little scenarios your 12 year old mind would think up with the excuse that your doing it in a structured game with rules and are totally noooooot writing fanfiction where Jyn Erso and Kyle Kartan teamed up to steal the death star plans, honest.

Would getting 66 or 80 or whatever points that you could use to buy cross faction ships and upgrades unbalance extended? The answer is extended is already unbalanced, and mostly serves as a vehicle for keeping casual players engaged and playing the game and use weird toys that don't fit well into the 'competitive' game, and if you care about such things you should man the battlements of fort hyperspace.

We already kiiiinda have this rule in Epic, where you can mix ships (but not upgrades on ships) and at the very least it might be a fun alternative mode for the list-techers to really play with, and to let you do wacky lore things like running the entire Skywalker family in one list.

This is a huge problem with the game, IMHO. FFG is so worried about tournament balance, that they have crushed player creation + experimentation out of existence. Sure, you can DIY it, but you have to do everything long-hand: every single fan-made electronic app/assistant only supports listbuilding RAW, so they really add nothing more to listbuilding than what FFG's app should have been. It is so cumbersome to create personal content that it has driven truly creative players like @weisguy119 out of the game, because the effort to re-create worlds, experimental craft, and missions again is too daunting to even bother.

I had hammered out a pretty cool idea for a linked campaign in 1.0 and was playtesting it. The whole thing was killed by 2.0, and I really have lost the enthusiasm to write scenarios since then.

For me, this hobby goes way past official content. I like trying my hand at personal ship/upgrade design, and I enjoy painting miniatures. Getting some 1/270 Colonial Vipers, painting them, and statting them out for XWM? Love it. But getting them into a game is tedious, since I would need to set aside some points, then listbuild/upgrade all the Vipers by hand, then staple them to my electronic build. And then redo/fact check everything when the next points list drops.

It would be great to see an unofficial listbuilder that is truly unofficial--mixing factions could be allowed as the simplest rule-breaker, but allowing users to input fan-made content for personal use would mean that TIE Hunters would already exist on a kitchen table somewhere. . .