I've been an Imperial player for quite some time now and after losing my mind over the fact that they not only added Iden Versio to the game, they were also giving me Inferno Squad to play with that could be taken as/with Imperial Special Forces. After playing a few games with these new unit(s) though (not counting Iden Versio), and including anywhere from 1 to 2 in my lists to mess around with, I have just felt like both of the units are underperforming compared to their more heavier counterparts, Death Troopers. I understand they're designed for different roles, but even Inferno Squad is finding to be disappointing especially when compared to Clan Wren for identical points and unit size.

For one, and correct me if I am wrong, Gideon's compel only applies to core Troopers. Now, I won't say sticking him in to a Shoretrooper unit to get multiple coordinates off with other Shoretrooper units isn't a blast, but for 38 points he only adds 2 R to the pool, increase the bravery characteristic by 1, and can only do this trick to our core units if he receives an order. The T-21B upgrade for the Shoretroopers, for less points, add 4 dice to the pool (albeit, they are BBWW), Critical 1, but more importantly Range 4 . In an army that currently seems to cater to having a more safe/gun-line approach, even as an upgrade Gideon doesn't seem to be beneficial.

To move on to Del Meeko, at least he adds a Range 5 weapon to the unit and Leathal 1, otherwise he loses High Velocity if he doesn't split fire. The one spot where that character would have made sense to include would be in Strike Teams where he could benefit from the weapon pool having High Velocity, but then again I can see why it wasn't done as we have just recently been given Iden Versio and she has a sniper kit as well. Also, Repair 2? Stop it.

If you've stuck with my pseudo-analysis/rant so far, let's just do a quick comparison to what Clan Wren gets if you take them as 1 unit for the same points as Inferno Squad. They start off with the same stat lines as Inferno Squad, with Wounds and Suppression at 2 and Red Defense dice, but have both Surge Hit and Defense with Move 3 and Jump . On top of that, they get Impervious and Nimble with the same Retinue ability Inferno Squad has access to when near Iden Versio. Add in Tristan Wren and you add BB to the dice pool, Suppressive, and Lethal 1 to the pool. Finally, we add in Ursa Wren which adds RBW to the dice pool, access to Dauntless, and Long Shot 1.

Inferno Squad gets Red Defense dice with Surge Hit only and Move 2. The upgrades grant access to Coordinate: Core Trooper and Lethal 1. Repair is useful in niche situations and High Velocity if you're split firing. Inferno Squad also gains access to creating a Surge Token with Reliable 1 (still not as good as having both Surge Hit/Defense base), and Marksman. While Marksman is a great trait, it is attached to a unit with no direction it feels. The 1 thing I feel could be argued that they have over Clan Wren is Range 3 weapons vs Clan Wren's Range 2, but it is negligible due to Clan Wren's Movement 3 base. I just hope when Maul and Anakin release it doesn't feel like there's such a gross discrepancy in power levels for the same points.

I apologize for the lengthy post. I'm just curious to see has anyone else made any of these comparisons lately, or if i'm just insane in the comparison. I understand, at the very least, Imperial Special Forces place but more often than not I wished they were Death Troopers.

Don't want to burst your bubble but if you put Gideon into a Shoretrooper unit you can still only do one co-ordinate when the unit is issued an order.

Also I think sometimes people get a bit caught up in trying to compare units from different factions directly without considering the synergies each has in their faction. on paper you can argue that Mandos are better than IFS, but they aren't necessarily meant to be exactly even in capability or what they bring to each respective army.

as it stands not many rebel armies take Sabine which you would want to get max value out of the mandos, while I see almost 80-90% of imp armies taking Iden these days so that's a significant bonus for the ISF Squad.

ISF is also fighting hard for some premium slots in the imperial army up against strike teams and Deathtroopers, while mandos really don't have any competition for their slots other than Rebel strike teams.

not all things are created equally which allows a certain amount of asymmetry to the design of the game, the last thing anyone wants is to have exactly the same units just with different skins right?

Also im not at all going to point out the massive gulf between the CIS Strike team and the GAR strike teams, nope not at all haha.

I like the idea of running Inferno Squad as another sniper unit alongside Death Troopers/Bossk and 2 sets of Shoretroopers/blasters. They form a solid gun line with superior activation control. I don't know how useful they are outside of Iden gun line lists, but I think they fit well in those.

ISF are awful. Theyre one of the worst designed units in the game because their abilities have poor synergy and some of their abilities actually work against eachother. Like having reliable 1 but then also having native surge to hit which means they can only use their surge token for defense rolls which sucks. Or having the T-21 as their heavy weapon which has critical 2 anyway and largely makes their native surge to hit pointless because the odds of rolling more than 2 surges is exceedingly low.

The way ISF are now theyre extremely overcosted which just makes them way worse deathtroopers. For only a few points more deathtroopers are not only way better offensively but are also 50% more survivable. Marksman is also not very good compared to the Precise 2 deathtroopers get. And all you lose is infiltrate which isnt that great anyway.

For ISF to be viable they need to have their points cost reduced by at least 10 points. That would put their points cost far enough below deathtroopers that just paying the points difference for deathtroopers wouldnt be as obviously better as it is now. I personally would give ISF Target 1 instead of shoretroopers and give shoretroopers Reliable 1 instead because I think that makes way more sense. Target 1 has better synergy with ISF because of marskman and reliable 1 has better synergy with shoretroopers because they dont natively surge on anything.

The one good thing about ISF is that Gideon Hask works pretty good in a snowtrooper unit. Its too bad everything else in the box sucks. I suppose Del Meeko could potentially be good but its hard to justify paying for his repair ability when you never take vehicles, which imperials arnt really incentivized to do at the moment.

On 10/6/2020 at 2:45 PM, Khobai said:

ISF are awful. Theyre one of the worst designed units in the game because their abilities have poor synergy and some of their abilities actually work against eachother. Like having reliable 1 but then also having native surge to hit which means they can only use their surge token for defense rolls which sucks. Or having the T-21 as their heavy weapon which has critical 2 anyway and largely makes their native surge to hit pointless because the odds of rolling more than 2 surges is exceedingly low.

The way ISF are now theyre extremely overcosted which just makes them way worse deathtroopers. For only a few points more deathtroopers are not only way better offensively but are also 50% more survivable. Marksman is also not very good compared to the Precise 2 deathtroopers get. And all you lose is infiltrate which isnt that great anyway.

For ISF to be viable they need to have their points cost reduced by at least 10 points. That would put their points cost far enough below deathtroopers that just paying the points difference for deathtroopers wouldnt be as obviously better as it is now. I personally would give ISF Target 1 instead of shoretroopers and give shoretroopers Reliable 1 instead because I think that makes way more sense. Target 1 has better synergy with ISF because of marskman and reliable 1 has better synergy with shoretroopers because they dont natively surge on anything.

The one good thing about ISF is that Gideon Hask works pretty good in a snowtrooper unit. Its too bad everything else in the box sucks. I suppose Del Meeko could potentially be good but its hard to justify paying for his repair ability when you never take vehicles, which imperials arnt really incentivized to do at the moment.

i hate having to agree with you but after many games with ISF i have found they are consistently letting me down, Infiltrate can be rendered useless by scouting units, Reliable is just a poor man's DT save and i am getting quite tired of seeing blank after blank when i roll the T-21, i have found to love the T-21 in stormtroopers but hate it in ISF mainly because i take stormtroopers with a Specialist and they aim them selves which then grants 6 rerolls compared to Marksman which changes a single die or 2.

I gave them a shot but unless Infiltrate is being changed to allow you to deploy outside of range 2 instead of the current 3 i can't see this unit being viable for much longer, Deathtroopers FTW

On 10/5/2020 at 4:57 PM, Mace Windu said:

Don't want to burst your bubble but if you put Gideon into a Shoretrooper unit you can still only do one co-ordinate when the unit is issued an order.

You can only coordinate a Corps, *or* Emplacement Trooper with Gideon on a Shoretrooper unit?

1 minute ago, DarthDanMan said:

You can only coordinate a Corps, *or* Emplacement Trooper with Gideon on a Shoretrooper unit?

Yes. That clarification was made in the most recent RRG.

On 10/5/2020 at 1:57 PM, Mace Windu said:

Also im not at all going to point out the massive gulf between the CIS Strike team and the GAR strike teams, nope not at all haha.

I know! Right? Those Droid Commandos with vibro swords and dioxis mines put some serious hurt on. 🤣

I've been using them as Gum Troops and have seen a level of success with that. They aren't so hardy that they can tank every single unit, but they can work well enough to throw off an enemy advance and put some quick suppression on key units before getting the bulk of your army up to the battle lines. They don't always survive to the end, but I've seen success with them as a way to put the enemy off their rhythm and waste time dealing with them before they can take objectives.

A lot of Imperial troops work well as Gum troops because of their durability (in most cases).

The point you pay for is the infiltrate and 2 training slots. Not everything in this game is going to be able to go toe to toe with everything else. This is important otherwise you'll just end up with different types of deathtroopers. I'll agree that the special forces need a point rebalance but it'll be interesting to see what training upgrades will be out in the next year.