I'm a LOTR, Arkham Horror and Marvel Champions player.

I picked up a core set recently because I thought it looked interesting, but I haven't had an opportunity to play yet.

Reading the forums yesterday, it seemed like there was a lot of negative feeling about the game and it's future. Is this game/playerbase dying?

Hard to tell if it’s dying. It must be selling enough and have enough of a following for them to keep going. If the LCG was doing really bad they’d have cancelled it by now and tried something else.

I dont think it is dying, but due to the current world situation most of the community is playing it online.

The game isnt for everyone though, it is for a certain kind of player. Sort of like how not everyone likes chess

I mean... did you think people were going to give you a "no" on the message board of the company that owns the game. Anyone who is going to be hanging around here has got to have at least a pretty strong attachment to the IP in general. Then again, I think I made a list of complaints about the core mechanics of it on a thread fairly recently...

I think it is perfectly fair to say that old CCG had way, way more engaged players 3-4 years into its run than this iteration has though.

I agree. This game is way more niche than the previous version. That that means its dying... I'm not sure. I think the player base is smaller, no discussion there, and the game doesn't cater to such a wide audience as to expect it to reach the previous iteration or mtg levels of player base, but I don't think its dying either.

To me the game feels as good as dead. There is no sense that Asmodée wants to support this game anymore (I say this regardless of the internal feelings at FFG for the IP, I'm pretty sure they love what they are doing no matter what). There are no big announcements, no live streams, no teasers of anything, including deluxe expansions. We only get fiction and the expected preview for the next dynasty pack of the current cycle. The contrast with Champions and Arkham is crushingly telling. I remember distinctly early in the game during a livestream when Brad Andres previewed Shinjo Shono and said "you guys won't believe else is coming" -- I liked this kind of excitement at the time. There is absolutely no vibe of that sort anymore. They have not built hype for a very, very long time. If they have no hype to build, they have nothing to sell.

Covid cannot explain everything. My take: when they announced that they would postpone the planned rotation, I believe this meant the game already had run its course in its current incarnation. I'm pretty sure they also know internally that this current form has failed (see what Tyler has done with Skirmish). I think we'll have a 2.0 before a rotation -- or the game dies for real, in the case that Asmodée doesn't want to support competitive games anymore.

30 minutes ago, Ascarel said:

To me the game feels as good as dead. There is no sense that Asmodée wants to support this game anymore (I say this regardless of the internal feelings at FFG for the IP, I'm pretty sure they love what they are doing no matter what). There are no big announcements, no live streams, no teasers of anything, including deluxe expansions. We only get fiction and the expected preview for the next dynasty pack of the current cycle. The contrast with Champions and Arkham is crushingly telling. I remember distinctly early in the game during a livestream when Brad Andres previewed Shinjo Shono and said "you guys won't believe else is coming" -- I liked this kind of excitement at the time. There is absolutely no vibe of that sort anymore. They have not built hype for a very, very long time.

Covid cannot explain everything. My take: when they announced that they would postpone the planned rotation, I believe this meant the game already had run its course in its current incarnation. I'm pretty sure they also know internally that this current form has failed (see what Tyler has done with Skirmish). I think we'll have a 2.0 before a rotation -- or the game dies for real, in the case that Asmodée doesn't want to support competitive games anymore.

Well since Asmodee did just create a new RPG and Books division both of which have announced new L5R product (3 Novels I believe now confirmed and even though its to early for previews they have confirmed an RPG sourcebook featuring the Dragon clan themed around the "wilds" of the Empire) I think its a little early to say that they've stopped caring about us entirely. Plus we have confirmation of the next cycle so we know that the next 6 months or so are sorted for releases.

Frankly Covid threw a wrench in a lot of long term planning for this year as the entire Kotei season and Winter Court had to be thrown out along with the story development that was likely mean to go along with it.

While its disappointing not to see anything on the FFG Live streams I don't put that much stock into the game is "dead" because we aren't being featured there.

To be fair, right now FFG would usually be hyping up the next round of OP events and Winter Court...all of which is still on hiatus until further notice. They probably could have done more to hype the Temptations cycle, honestly though the In Flight Report was still an improvement over last year. The next premium box should be getting an announcement within the next 4-6 weeks, which is very much in keeping with their standard advance announcement timing. Meanwhile, they've continued to release new online fiction at a steady pace, which as far as I know is a unique form of IP support that isn't seen with any of FFG's other lines...and also is by no means free, either.

Has the hype faded from the game's launch 3 years ago? Sure, but I would argue the support from FFG is as strong or stronger as it's been since post-launch. That's not to say they can't improve, and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped local communities to stay strong and add players, but I don't think we're quite to the "game is dead" point. That's not to say there's no way we'd get a 2.0 announcement or something similar in the next 12 months, but I think FFG is at least comfortable with staying the course with the current status quo.

1 minute ago, Schmoozies said:

Well since Asmodee did just create a new RPG and Books division both of which have announced new L5R product (3 Novels I believe now confirmed and even though its to early for previews they have confirmed an RPG sourcebook featuring the Dragon clan themed around the "wilds" of the Empire)

That's actually not exactly what I meant -- I'm happy the IP seems to be living on in the RPG and I will continue to buy everything in that line of products.

The LCG is an entirely different matter. Also, we must not forget that products are designed well in advance. The current dearth of new things is absolutely pre-covid.

Not sure what "dearth of new things" you're referring to. Again, the premium box is typically announced late October/early November for Q1 release the next year, that's nothing new. The monthly pack releases have resumed with the next cycle already announced and previews commenced. The only lack of expected product I'm seeing at this point is the next clan novella.

Didn't they cancell all the RPG line, they are not doing nothing new since the beginning of this year and all the realeases are last bullets in the magazine?

2 hours ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

Didn't they cancell all the RPG line, they are not doing nothing new since the beginning of this year and all the realeases are last bullets in the magazine?

Asmodee started a new RPG studio and consolidated all the various RPG lines that they were making from their assorted sub-studios (including L5R) under that new studio

Yeah they just moved the RPG stuff to the new studio. Asmodee seems to be splitting up FFG products to other companies that specialize in those products. All the novels went to Aconyte. All the RPG stuff went to Edge. It was confirmed that basically all the same people are working on the products. Sam has even been doing the podcast rounds talking up the new products in the pipeline. So no the RPG line isn't dead. It's got new releases coming as does the novella line and we have several L5R novels also expected. So Asmodee is doing stuff with the L5R IP.

I am concerned about competitive cards games like L5R and the COVID situation. That said we are still getting products released. It's a bit early to see this as a sky is falling scenario. The only thing that is literally drying up for L5R is the partnership with Privateer Press for the monthly L5R themed mini. That I am sad about but they said their agreement only went out to 2021 which is why it's coming to an end.

So when looked at it through that lens (novels, novellas, models, cards, RPG products and a board game) it's actually a pretty well supported line at this point. Way more supported than many of their in house settings like Twilight Imperium or Tanhauser. Is L5R the card game burning up the sales charts? I can't say. I do know it struggles with local play at FLGS, but I do wonder how much of this game's audience ends up being kitchen table, online and big tournament only players.

I feel like this iteration of L5R will probably die. COVID is just the death knell. Even before that it was pretty complex to get into, with the buying model making it difficult to buy into. Mechanically I think it is a failure. But I could see a new version coming out in a few years.

As someone who played and loved the original game from the mid to late 90s, this version of L5R was a big disappointment.

I was excited about the prospect of getting back into L5R when I first heard that FFG purchased the rights and was going to update the game and release it as an LCG. So going in, I had an open mind and wanted to love it.

Unfortunately, they went full FFG on it. Every aspect of the game is over designed and “gamified”. You can’t just draw a card for your turn, you have to play a mini game. You can’t just put a personality into play, you have to choose how much you want overpay to keep them around, etc. I don’t remember every example of this since the last time I played was over two years ago but even deckbuilding is gamified with keeper and seeker roles.

New L5R feels like a game designed to be enjoyed by people who design games for a living. Everything about it is tedious and overly involved. “Mono no aware” is not how I want to feel when playing a game. Bottom line is new L5R is not fun to play.

I hope they decide to start over with another redesign. And I hope that instead of focusing on how many mini games, decision points, dials, tokens, etc. can be stuffed into it, they remember that actually being fun to play is the first priority.