Hi

We are all waiting for the next point change to help some units that fall short of the mark. However I think the last point change showed that some units might not work even with point reduction unless they get reduced by alot or gain som sort or errata to help it as well. The airspeeder whom I think works fine as a unit now, allthough still suffering from problem with being an expensive single activation that can't interact with alot of objectives. However this is after a huge point reduction on both the base unit as well as the upgrade cards, in addition to extra rules and rules change to wedge.

It's easy to point to a unit and say: This needs nerf or this needs buff. However how it should be done and how it would fit in FFG MO is another thing. I have been working a bit in my head for an expansion pack like the specialist and upgrade packs we've seen before. My thought it to make a mirror expansion for both the empire and rebels and being a very rebel focused player I started in that courner.

I present my prototype for a Rebel fix expansion.

Wookie vibro axe warrior
36/32p
1 red, 1 black
Pierce 1.
After performing a move action, gain spur until the end of your activation

The model is from the wookie expansion with the vibro axe added from the wookie hero in imperial assault. This would give the wookies a close combat heavy weapon option to boos their somewhat lacking dmg potentinal in melee. The second problem is getting into close combat with the wookies using speed 2. I was tempted to just give them spur, but double move speed 3 into engagement is very powerful and I leave that to tauntauns. However I feel spur is a perfect way to boost wookies since it combines with their indomitable rule. I decided to give them spur for only the second move, representing the extra speed of a charge and it can't be used to move faster and then shoot. The point cost is before and after the point change providing the wookies get's reduced in cost. I belive they will, but you can't be sure.

The second upgrade to wookies is to help their survivability with some inspiration from the new BX droids and their shields.
Wookie tribal shields
Gain reliable 1
Gear
0-2p

This dosen't really needs to be a new miniature, but since we going after the template of the previous two expansions this is the way. This picture is from revenge of the sith and could be the template for the model, It is also somewhat represented on the current models. I was thinking of other defence bonuses, but honestly giving them a surge every round will help their defence a bit and don't impact their offense in anyway since they got surge-hit. I think that the point cost could just be 0 since it steals their gear slot where you might put recon intel. Otherwise I would keep it at max 2 points.

What do you think about this, would you buy it?, would it be enough to make wookies somewhat compedetive?

Moving to the fleets.
Fleet officer
20p/18p/16p
Increase your courage by 1 even while this card is exhausted and/or gain sentinel/training slot
Exhaust when resolving a standby action to gain steady.

Fleets have trouble with white defence dice and short range weapons. They need to get close to deal damage and will be under alot of fire doing it. At the same time courage 1 is a big achilles heel since they need to move-shoot most turns to reach a target. Rebel officer helps with the courage problem, but I think we can expand it to boost their keyword ready 1. They also can't take the upgrade card to increase their standby range since they lack a training slot. So my solution is an officer with an added bonus, or if we need to be more different than an officer we can ignore the courage bit and hope the rest works enough. I prefer giving them sentinel from the officer, however giving them a training slot can be used to add it via the upgrade card. This add other options like offensive push. Gaining steady with speed 2 is a massive boost, so I want it to be contained to the standby action and exhaust to use. My plan with this, is that a fleet trooper squad can move and do a standby action gaining their aim token from the keyword. Then they can activate when something moves into range 3 to perform a move + shoot since speed 2 is about the same a range 1. Giving them a threat range of 3 give or take a few mm. I accept that it is a bit messy with all the keywords, but at least this upgrade let's them use their keyword effectively. The points is 20 for the courage 1 + sentinel/training option. 18 for just sentinel and 16 for just training slot. They all have the second part about the steady rule though.

My second one is a similar version, but it will focus more on the use combined with the MPL-57 heavy weapon.

Fleet security personel
15p
Gain sentinel even when this card is exhausted
Exhaust to perform a free standby action

Pretty simple, you gain sentinel and it keeps working even while this card is exhausted. The second part gives a free standby action. This can be combined with the MPL weapon to fire it one turn then the turn after you can move, recover and then perform the free standby. Using sentinel you can trigger standby to fire the MPL launcher since it has range 3. However the MPL is an exhaust weapon which hurts it compared to the scatter gun. Using this personel upgrade you can use it more effectivly and with it's increased range. It can be tuned down with switching stanby action to token, but I like using their keyword since it's the one unique thing they got. I can see chainging the free standby to a free recover before they activate as it will do about the same thing.

So that's the box. 2 fleet trooper models and 2 wookie models to be packaged in one box, with some new upgrade cards. Throw in republic versions of the unit cards for wookies if you feeling crazy.

What do you guys think, would these upgrades make the units more compedetive, overpowered or are they just to complicated and weird?
I used 3 proxy models, one being the wookie unit leader that have a shield on his forearm, the second my officer with calamari head and lastly my commando sabotage model that I have my spare fleet trooper head.

why only 4 models? this crap where they stick 4 models in a box for $20 needs to stop. Most of the cost is the packaging and distribution costs anyway not the number of models. It costs them almost nothing to put a couple extra models in a box.

they need two 6-7 model boxes: one for imperial and one for rebels. both for $25-$30.

imperial box should have a new scouttrooper model, a new stormtrooper model, a new ISF model (the 8th model that was missing), a new royal guard model, a new snowtrooper model, and a new shoretrooper or deathtrooper model.

Rebel box should have a new rebel trooper model, a new fleet trooper model, a new veteran trooper model, a new pathfinder model, a new wookiee warrior model, and a new commando model

And each box could have a named character that can either be used as a standalone operative or as a unit attachment. Like Carnor Jax or Seyn Marana for imperials. Im not sure who for Rebels (crix madine maybe?).

Those are the kinds of products they need to be making to fix the existing problems with all those units and add new options for them. It will never happen though sadly.

I agree, I would like to not have to buy these "fix" boxes with few models. However going by their record this is a box I could see get released. A card pack would be enough or start doing online army books that can be changed regularly. However since they keep release every box as a boardgame expansion and haven't stopped yet, I designed it like one of their expansion boxes.

There are some neat ideas here, I agree that these two units could get some love.

For the wookies, I guess that a decent melee heavy weapon option would be quite enough to make them viable in some builds. And by decent, i mean with Pierce

Also, the OP's ideas for Fleets are neat, I disregarded their Ready 1 for so long I forgot they had it. Making it useful would be tricky though - Steady, Sentinel and free standby is a lot of support, and still I believe would not be enough to utilize Ready.

Perhaps a personel/heavy upgrades with powerful, one-off effects would be a way to go. This is largely unexplored area for legion, for now at least. This might prove challenging with how one-use upgrades work, but a Wookie Elder/Fleet Sargeant that gives a unit access to a otherwise unequippable "feat card" could give either of these units a significant boost without making it overpowered with multiple uses. Think "Overcharged Shots" that increase the range of attack by 1, or "Fury of the Woods" that for a turn gives Scale and Pierce X for melee, where X is the number of minis in defending units.

im not against fix boxes but they should fix everything at once in one box. instead of making you buy multiple boxes.

Fleet troopers are supposed to wait for the enemy to come to them, not to push forward.

You should simply move them and stand by.

That s literally what they do in the movie.

And sentinel on them would not be so useful since they still have range 2 weapons.

why would the opponent with range 3 units ever come to your fleet troopers with range 2 weapons? theyll just stay at range 3 and shoot them.

putting fleet troopers on standby doesnt work either because the standby token just gets shot off them

fleet troopers are definitely not a reactive unit. Theyre very much an aggressive unit that needs to double move every turn theyre not in range 2.

And they need to work with some kindve distraction unit like an AT-RT with a flamethrower or tauntauns so the fleet troopers dont get prioritized. because fleet troopers die faster than anything.

Wookies should get:

- S u rge to block or Agile 1

- possibly Scale?

- or a discount on the base unit and the heavy

Maybe some inspiration for all that don't like fleet troopers -> List
1st place in recent 20 people tournament (6 Rebels, 6 Imperials, 4 Republic, 4 CIS players)

49 minutes ago, NetCop said:

Maybe some inspiration for all that don't like fleet troopers -> List
1st place in recent 20 people tournament (6 Rebels, 6 Imperials, 4 Republic, 4 CIS players)

Have you seen their tables? I did, it's literally a maze of LOS-blocking terrain. Also, the local meta is Republic-heavy, so this list was a counter-pick with a total of Pierce 11 per turn xD

I do love fleets and use them often. They are skill intensive unit, and one has to be careful with them. Spamming them, like Artur did in the linked list, is usually not the best idea and requires specific conditions and a looooooot of practice (which Artur arguably has, no denying that!). Any option to make them more viable/accessible in a wider array of lists would be welcome.

7 hours ago, toffolone said:

Fleet troopers are supposed to wait for the enemy to come to them, not to push forward.

You should simply move them and stand by.

That s literally what they do in the movie.

And sentinel on them would not be so useful since they still have range 2 weapons.

That is the intent, however when so many units have range 3-4 weapons there isn't anyone that would move into your fleets. If they need to move they can move into range 3 and shoot them which will remove the standby.

If you simply move and standby like the movie, you will end up with dead fleet troopers. Actually that is like the movie 😋 .

My fixes don't only add sentinel if you read them.

2 hours ago, Shanturin said:

Have you seen their tables? I did, it's literally a maze of LOS-blocking terrain. Also, the local meta is Republic-heavy, so this list was a counter-pick with a total of Pierce 11 per turn xD

I do love fleets and use them often. They are skill intensive unit, and one has to be careful with them. Spamming them, like Artur did in the linked list, is usually not the best idea and requires specific conditions and a looooooot of practice (which Artur arguably has, no denying that!). Any option to make them more viable/accessible in a wider array of lists would be welcome.

Let’s be fair, lots of LOS blocking terrain should be the case for every table. I get the feeling it’s what the designers had in mind when they made a lot of units.

5 hours ago, Critchley94 said:

Let’s be fair, lots of LOS blocking terrain should be the case for every table. I get the feeling it’s what the designers had in mind when they made a lot of units.

I wish they would share some example tables with us

52 minutes ago, Lukez said:

I wish they would share some example tables with us

Legion Tournament Regulations, Page 13, under Terrain Guidelines. They have 1 example each of standard and skirmish tables.

I think the biggest problem with fleets and wookies are the tables they play on.

That said, I think there can be fix options that allow a unit to play on more boards. I’d rather see it as a single box with options for more units. I expect ffg to draw it out and make it $15-20 for 4 minis of one unit type though.

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I think the biggest problem with fleets and wookies are the tables they play on.

That said, I think there can be fix options that allow a unit to play on more boards. I’d rather see it as a single box with options for more units. I expect ffg to draw it out and make it $15-20 for 4 minis of one unit type though.

Yeah alot of los blocking would help, like a ton of it. However a few years of legion have shown us this is not the norm.

Wookies might be fine with a point reduction, but they could use a helping hand in offense or defence as well.

Fleets have limited use outside of very terrain heavy tables or skirmish. I mean they still works, but range 2 limits them alot vs most matchups. The standby they use is very reliable to los blocking walls and units that needs to get close to them. Honestly they could rework the entire unit from scratch and give them a more usable keyword.

I like the idea. Even though it’d be nice to have them both in a box for $20, I think it makes more sense to have them in separate boxes for $15. It’s awkward to have different units of different types together.

Maybe have a fleet/Rebel vets upgrade box and a Wookiee/commando box?

15 minutes ago, smickletz said:

I like the idea. Even though it’d be nice to have them both in a box for $20, I think it makes more sense to have them in separate boxes for $15. It’s awkward to have different units of different types together.

Maybe have a fleet/Rebel vets upgrade box and a Wookiee/commando box?

Yeah, separate would work or in another combination. I could see wookies getting a small upgrade box with a new model or two as well as a unit card for republic.

I chose these two units since I think they are the ones in biggest need and I rarely field them/see them played anymore.