One of my players wants to make an untouchable marine(with the game not even out yet!). I've never seen any in lore for such a thing and while I can say the chapter librarians would be none too pleased with something that could very well be tainted, the black templars present a small problem, what with the whole no librarian things and all. Anyone know any good reasons for or against such an idea? I just hate the whole "special snowflake" idea of a untouchable marine. My idea is that the untouchable gene doesn't go well with the organ implantation process, etc.

Any thoughts?

Well there's technically nothing wrong with having an untouchable space marine. The marine would be technically less likely to be tainted and/or swayed to the ruinous powers, not to mention the obviousness of being immune to just about any form of psykic attack.. Librarians might have an issue with him around as he could very well blunt their psyker powers.

Although there is no real reason for an untouchable marine to not exist somewhere, I highly doubt one would actually be recruited. There are very few untouchables in the glaxay, and those that exist are often snatched up by the Inquisition and built into Culexus assassins.

Not to mention that the untouchables are regarded in society as being different, and weird to be around and interact with. Unless you had a renegade chapter running about, I doubt they would induct untouchables. Space Marines value their souls, and the wall of anger and hate they can build up as a shield against the warp and the alien. An untouchable marine sort of flies in the face of that.

It does seem a bit munchkin overkill...like players for Vampire:The Masquerade who wanted to play a vampire werewolf. Who was also a Mage.

But as SinisterCheshire says, I suppose there's no reason why it couldn't happen....though it kind of doesn't feel right to me.

I wonder how this would work with chapter geneseed where there is the sugestion that there is some sort of psychic link with the Primarch? The Blood Angels have the Black Rage, which is said to be some sort of latent psychic link with Sangunius, and the Thousand Sons seem to have been a chapter fairly rich in psychics, too. How would an untouchable implanted with Thousand sons or Blood Angel geneseed react? MIght he die? Or just not transform into a marine? Or would everything develop as normal?

It's the sort of thing you can imagine a chapter like the Alpha Legion doing though, recruiting untouchable marines, for a variety of sinister purposes...

Lightbringer said:

I had the same idea. Since there are no canon examples of this we can only speculate. Technically an Untouchable should be able to accept the implants, since they are still basically humans. But if certain aspects of the geneseed are linked to psychic potential/ability the developement might go awry.

Possible results might include rejection, non-funtional organs or in the worst case outright mutations. And this would, at least in Loyalist Chapters, result in correctional procedures.Mutated geneseed simply can not be tolerated. Possible measures could be 1) service in "Death Company" equivalent, 2) internment, 3) relegation to serf or 4) termination ( in the case of blatant mutations ).

In the case of the Blood Angels one intriguing possibility would be a marine that is immune to the Curse of Sanguinius ( if the Rage is treated as a Psychic based legacy ).

I might be wrong, but don't the black ships visit SM homeworlds too? Potential psykers are still taken for sanctioning and untouchables would be rounded up at the same time. So SM chapters don't automatically get dibs on an untouchable that turns up on their turf.

Face Eater said:

That depends on the chapter. Chapters are independent enough to keep other other imperial organisations out of their systems (the Space Wolves for example keep the ecclesiarchy away). I don't see anything wrong with an untouchable space marine, space marines don't have to be psykers even though the primarchs were. However, I would ask if anyone wants to play a librarian first. If someone wants no pariah in the squad. If not it's fair game, as long as he somehow pays for that advantage.

My opinion: Since being an untouchable creates a sense of anxiety and distrust in those around him, I'd say that's a massive detriment for a Space Marine. The likelihood of one being recruited and made a neophyte is astronomically low. If the player is looking for ways to explore distrust among a band of brothers, there are better ways. If the player is looking to become the "specialest snowflake" and be "uberleet", they're on the right track...and should likely be given a solid "no".

Being a Space Marine is already heavy on the awesome, no reason to look for massive munchkin power.

Going purely by the lore this is not unheard of actually.

In the book Heroes of the Space Marines there is a story called Headhunted that details a Kill Team being inserted into an ork ship. One of the members is from the Exorcists chapter and is in fact an untouchable.

Rules-wise it seems a little much, but purely based on lore I wouldn't see an issue with it.

kenshin138 said:

I don't remember him being untouchable, just an Exorcist Marine. That is, he, like all members of that chapter are ritually possessed by daemons, and then purged through exorcisms, thus granting the exorcised template from RH.

The untouchable aura would definitely hurt a potential SM's chances of being taken in by the chapter ("There's something wrong with that one...") and I could see it harming squad cohesion greatly. That's assuming the process of turning a person into a SM isn't in fact half-mystical to begin with. I wouldn't allow it personally.

Maybe I was reading into it too much, but I read the following to mean he was untouchable, perhaps not.

If he's been possessed, he's definitely not an Untouchable and that would explain a screwed up warp signature.

He also did not have an area null effect. It was just him that was missing.

Hello, there is a character in a book who is a space marine blunt, in fact his entire chapter is made up of blunts and he is seconded to the death watch.

I will search for the book to make the bibliography.

Ahh, my bad on that then. Thanks!

I would say no.

Untouchables are extremely rare, and the ones that exist are found and made into something very specific. A marine is not one of those jobs. And its not like no one will notice their ability - where there are Space Marine chapters, there are Black Ships and all levels of scrutiny. Not that you need them - the space marines would identify the recruit and send word themselves.

Such is the rarity of untouchables, no one would risk the implantation process (many recruits dont live) to waste a valuable resource.

I'm not seeing this happening.

It also sounds like your player wants a lot of benefits from being an untouchable (complete psychic and warp immunity), for little sacrifice (some people dont like you much (-10 fellowship?)). You are going to want to scare the party with cool scenes with fighting against psykers and the like; but they will laugh as the psyker can not perform any task and you just beat them up.

Idaho said:

The Mary Sue marines ?

Bilateralrope said:

Doesn't sound like the Ultramarines to me.

I believe the blunt marine chapter are actually the Exorcist marine chapter(who were mentioned as part of the Deathwatch story in Heroes of the Space Marines). They are not blunts/untouchables by the definition, rather they have let themselves be possessed by a demon and then, well, exorcised and and thus their new affinity with the warp/chaos, etc make them better demon killers and extremely unlikely to get possessed again.

Yea, pretty much am gonna say no untouchable space marines, if I thought my player was doing it for actual role playing, I might consider the Exorcist angle, but I'm 100% sure he's going the munchkin route. If he complains, maybe I can hack Lexicanum and write in that untouchables can't be space marines and show it to him(just kidding, probably).

It's my real hope that somewhere in the Deathwatch core rulebook that they have said Marines cannot be untouchables for blah blah blah.

Regardless, thank you all for your replies.

Being Untouchable would screw with team work something fierce. Its hard to bond tightly when everyone instinctively loathes you.

I think that to answer that question with " 100% sure NO " will be impossible.

I think that it will be very, very dificult.

An untouchable is one individual that will bring problems with the morale, (people not only doesn't like them, they feel unconfortable with them), and more important: The librarians will not be able to read their minds.

If you check the creation of a SM will find that the veteran librarians of the chapter will test the loyality of the candidate in one of the steps. For any chapter that is an important issue. Will the candidate be a traitor? Or will he be unbreakable? (The Space Wolves make this test in the Morkai Door Quest, for example)

Could exist one chapter which Geneseed could develop Untouchables? Maybe... but how will this chapter transmit/receive mensajes? They need their librarians to transmit or use Astropaths.

Thinking a bit about this question came to my mind one answer: Red Hunters. The Red Hunters Chapter act as Shock troopers for the Inquisition. Maybe this chapter could find very usefull this kind of rare individuals. But will be one Untouchable Red Hunter seconded to the DW?

Exorcist Chapter are not Untouchables. In their training process they are possessed by deamons and latter exorcided. The psychic scars that the process makes them all the skills that Rauth have in Headhunter , (great DW short history).

The untouchable are not making military organisation collapse because of a loss of cohesion in a squad.

In fact they tend to be pretty usefull in the field of battle, working hands in hands with other troups. (see thousand sons when sisters and custodes and space wolf fought side by side / or the Caine story / ot in the heresy novel the co-working sister of silence and the death guard Marine Garo if I'm not wrong)

Maybe there's no untouchable SM but that's not because of their effect on their brothers. But maybe only because the emperor was a really powerfull psyker who made the primarch with a part of his genes and the SM with a part of the primarch genes.

Then how the untouchable trait can be pass generation to generayion if at the beginning it doesn't exist.

Btw I will not be surprised to see one day or an other a compagny of untouchable greyknights...

I don't actually see it as being a really big problem for those chapters with a history of solo warriors (BTs, SW). ...in fact the Black Templars would probably happily embrace a brother who was immune to the powers of the witch and the daemon...

... if not for the fact that Untouchables generally make everyone around them feel awful, not just other psykers.

An Untouchable Marine would be hamper his squad mates.

Can't see it happening.

BYE

I'm going with the post above...

As part of the selection process, Space Marine candidates are tested by a Librarian for any sign of taint. This is just as important as testing a candidate for physical corruption, as well as their compatibility with the Geneseed.

Each Chapter has their own rituals and such, but in the end, the test all look for the same thing: is a potential candidate pure enough to be a Marine.

I say NO to the Power Gaming!!!