Matt Cary continues his series covering the summer points change. Check it out here, and let us know what you think.

Ketsu crew won't be worth taking, at any cost, unless tractor becomes less of a detriment to the tractoring ship.

I mean, Shadowport Hunter is a full green die up on a Dark Courier, and I figure that's worth something.

But into the named pilots, yeah, maybe they are a bit pricey.

I still think it'd be nice to get them something extra, some mod that gave them red rotate at some different timing, to leverage the unique capacities of the Lancer.

Good stuff.

I think moving some value from the Lancer to the title is a good call. It's currently not a real decision as to whether you equip it or not and it does provide the ship with some genuine impact.

I don't think tractor has actually been nerfed that hard for Scum. Sure, they can rotate, but I've rarely used it to avoid a shot and the stress factor synergizes with other Scum tricks. The choice to swivel is mostly between a rock and a hard place....

In summary, Shadow Caster title is daft value at 1pt but the ship itself is not too bad a price with it. Makes only sense to redistribute the points there.

Zuckuss needs to drop. This is a must.

The Four Horseman threat of Scum point buffs remains strong, I'm often only a handful points here and there away from vaguely disgusting combos. But trial and error is really the only way of balancing the faction, Pandoras Box be damned.

39 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

stress factor synergizes with other Scum tricks.

Other than the Falcon title and Lattz crew? Those are the only "tricks" that come to mind that build off of stress that are Scum. I guess BT-1 if you include it as a "Scum trick" (it's also an Imp trick that has allot better synergies there).

23 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Other than the Falcon title and Lattz crew? Those are the only "tricks" that come to mind that build off of stress that are Scum. I guess BT-1 if you include it as a "Scum trick" (it's also an Imp trick that has allot better synergies there).

Assaj, 4-LOM, 0-0-0 are in there too. Victor Hel, I guess.... Odd bomb drops and such, that can capitalise on a restricted ship, Emon, Nym, Sol...

Stress in and of itself is a strong tool for directing and predicting an opponent.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Shadowport Hunter is a full green die up on a Dark Courier, and I figure that's worth something.

Certainly, but the big base reposition, 1 hards, and 2 more turnaround maneuvers make it a considerably more maneuverable ship. A low initiative big base ship is likely going to have a role of a blocker which the Dark Courier can better accomplish. In any case, I wouldn't die on a hill to get lower costing generic, it's the named pilots I'm concerned with, and as you say they seem a little pricey.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I still think it'd be nice to get them something extra, some mod that gave them red rotate at some different timing, to leverage the unique capacities of the Lancer.

I'm hoping that when it re-releases perhaps a Banshee title and a Gyroscopic Targeting might come with it. For the Gryoscopic Targeting, I'd like to see it enable a calc -> red rotate.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

I don't think tractor has actually been nerfed that hard for Scum. Sure, they can rotate, but I've rarely used it to avoid a shot and the stress factor synergizes with other Scum tricks. The choice to swivel is mostly between a rock and a hard place...

For Quads, the stress factor is a non-factor if the tractee dialed in a blue maneuver. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln that said "You should just spend the tractor token to move an opponent's ship". He was probably right.

7 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Assaj, 4-LOM, 0-0-0 are in there too. Victor Hel,

All 4 of these give stress to an enemy ship so don't synergize with the stress cost of a tractored rotate. They do the same thing as it.

8 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Odd bomb drops and such, that can capitalise on a restricted ship, Emon, Nym, Sol...

Forgive me for considering these laughable. Like Koshka (the one I'd forgotten), that ability to capitalize is easily ignored/countered by most ships. Especially since you have to telegraph a turn or two in advanced what you're planning to do.

40 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

For Quads, the stress factor is a non-factor if the tractee dialed in a blue maneuver. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln that said "You should just spend the tractor token to move an opponent's ship". He was probably right.

Lincoln was overall pretty great, but he had some stinkers, like when he considered deporting freedmen, and this thing about tractors.

Quadjumper who had to spend the token to move a ship is barely nerfed. It's still nasty reposition control, and Wedge vs Not Wedge is a pretty minor difference in payoff.

Tractor just never should have repositioned stuff at the non-epic scale. Only huge ship tractor arrays should be able to move things in combat. Quadjumper has a lot of power to move significantly larger cargo loads, but are they doing it while dodging lasers and asteroids at combat speeds? Naw.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

All 4 of these give stress to an enemy ship so don't synergize with the stress cost of a tractored rotate. They do the same thing as it.

Forgive me for considering these laughable. Like Koshka (the one I'd forgotten), that ability to capitalize is easily ignored/countered by most ships. Especially since you have to telegraph a turn or two in advanced what you're planning to do.

A ship with one stress token super does not want another stress token.

Capitalising is all about making the position they take to avoid whatever you've 'telegraphed' less advantageous, so they're forced to either leave you alone or accept a bad trade.

Incredibly few ships easily ignore/counter stress. Making your opponent predictable is very powerful.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

For Quads, the stress factor is a non-factor if the tractee dialed in a blue maneuver. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln that said "You should just spend the tractor token to move an opponent's ship". He was probably right.

Kinda true, but a blue move away from the enemy or onto a rock is not often a blue move you want to do.

Spending the token to move the enemy is the nerf I expected. The one we got leaves the double oh no of move and reduced AG fully operational. It was specifically targetted at Ensnare and achieved it's goal pretty handsomely.

Spending the token would have been the game wide nerf that people probably wanted. It certainly would have justified the Scum point drops. As is, my lists that use it actually got better thanks to the related drops, rather than hurt by the mechanical difference.

They were likely overcosted to begin with, so it wasn't like they suddenly became world beaters, but hey, can't have everything.

42 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Kinda true, but a blue move away from the enemy or onto a rock is not often a blue move you want to do.

Spending the token to move the enemy is the nerf I expected. The one we got leaves the double oh no of move and reduced AG fully operational. It was specifically targetted at Ensnare and achieved it's goal pretty handsomely.

Spending the token would have been the game wide nerf that people probably wanted. It certainly would have justified the Scum point drops. As is, my lists that use it actually got better thanks to the related drops, rather than hurt by the mechanical difference.

They were likely overcosted to begin with, so it wasn't like they suddenly became world beaters, but hey, can't have everything.

With Ketsu crew?

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

With Ketsu crew?

One I pointedly did not mention...

I just can't think of a use for her at all. Apart from maybe stacking them on a larger base, fwiw.

Mostly I see her as a negative, preventing me from moving a target a 2nd time, or just making plain who I'd like to continue to go after and tempting me to do so.

Bigger ships, it's simpler to just shoot at them more

I'd throw her in at 2pt and see how it goes, but I doubt she'll ever be that low. Still, crew slots are generally too valuable to waste and Scum have better options at 2pts already.

To be sure, Ketsu crew could be cheaper and no problem. But she'll also probably never be truly good, and I'm OK with that. She does something unlike anything else, and if it's something that no one wants to do, well, so be it.

Ironically, maybe she's better now. She'll just keep the token on there and "wedge" the opponent, without having to risk reposition and rotate.

Is that "worth it"? Again, probably not, but again, I don't care. Crew with hyper-specific abilities are much less of a bother than useless ships, and they're even more of a "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" thing. I think we be OK with other people not wanting to leave tractor tokens on a ship turn-after-turn.

13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Ketsu crew won't be worth taking, at any cost, unless tractor becomes less of a detriment to the tractoring ship.

Honestly, with how Ensnare is costed so that it's stupid to take it (it went UP in the recent points change, and I'm not convinced it will go back down when the base Nantex get their points increased again), the rotate change should be reverted. It was a heavy-handed reaction anyway, to something I don't think is any more of a problem than the stressless double reposition and infinite mods of Jedi, and not that much more than what Soontir Fel can do.

Don't punish everyone else with a general rule change when you can just remove the ability to double-reposition after the bump by adding a single word to the rules text and pretend it was a mistake. The nerf to the agility reduction on larger ships was plenty.