For those who aren't aware, FFG revealed that they are amending Armada's rules concerned Squadrons, wherein only 1 Squadron with defense tokens will be permitted per 100-points in a match. Therefore, for standard 400-points matches, there will only be 4 squadrons with defense tokens -- commonly referred to as "Ace" squadrons -- and any other squadrons will have to be generics or Unique squadrons (without def. tokens).

This is an interesting change to Armada's squadron rules, which should dramatically effect competitive play, because competitive players tend to use Ace squadrons over generics. I've observed many Finals matches and have noticed that the majority of points were earned from killing squadrons, because Aces are expensive, rather than destroying enemy ships. Of course, ships do get destroyed, but they tend to be small, less expensive ships, which can be outweighed by the loss of multiple Aces.

I admit that I tended to favour Aces over generics because I'm primarily an Imperial faction player, and Ace TIE Fighters and Interceptors have Scatter, which usually allows them to survive longer than generic TIEs. Now I will need to adapt my fleet builds to reduce the number of Aces that I use, which will consequently effect the number of squadrons that I will need to activate. So this change has ripple effects on existing builds.

I think it's safe to say that the Republic and Separatist factions will have the easiest time adapting to the new rule because we don't have established Clone Wars builds, and the factions are just starting out and have far fewer Aces compared to the Empire and Rebels. Although, FFG has admitted that the Clone Wars Squadron packs will contain more Ace squadrons than previous Squadron Packs, which always had 1 Ace and 1 generic. More Aces are welcome, but the new rules will obviously limit our choices.

The only downside of this change that I foresee is that squadron-heavy builds will contain significantly more squadrons because generics are cheaper, and the more squadrons that are in a match, the longer that match tends to last. Armada matches aren't renowned for being fast-paced. So if the average Armada match lasts 1.5-3 hours now, it's possible that could increase to 2-4+ hours after CWA, which could turn off players and cause problems in tournament-play, which often get cut short by time restrictions.

I wonder if FFG has developed new rules or procedures that could speed-up squadrons gameplay?

As for the Empire and Rebels, I expect to see more "carrier" ships used after CWA is released. I'm fortunate that I own multiple Quasar Fire light carriers, so I can adapt to using more generic squadrons. However, I anticipate that there will be a sudden spike in demand for Quasars, ISDs, MC80s, and Peltas. I hope that FFG will be re-stocking those ship expansions in the near-future.

One of the changes that I anticipate is that certain Aces that were formerly "auto-includes" might be dropped because of the 4 Ace Limit.

For example, will Imperial players continue to pair Jendon with Maarek Stele? My prediction is that Jendon will only be included if the other 2 squadrons will greatly benefit from activating twice, such as Boba Fett, Mauler Mithel (assuming he can Move), Morna Kee, and IG-88.

Similarly, will Dengar and Jan Ors be used as often? Or will players switch to the generic JumpMaster and HWK-290 to use Intel?

Can you think of other Aces that might be less popular, or suddenly more popular, when the new 4 Ace squadron limit is introduced with CWA?

I only really use Darth Vader, Mauler Mithel, Sootir Fel, and Dengar... and then generic squadrons... anyway. So it wont effect how I play too much. Normally I see it as, "I can fit two TIEs for the cost of one Ace... so I will go with that." But I did become partial to the murder ball for tournament play.

You're not likely to see many more squadrons. 8 is about the most you can comfortably control without sacrificing too much combat capability. You'll probably see more generic boosting aces, and maybe some niche aces like Whisper. Vader will probably be seen more as he shreds generics, esp. with flight controllers.

You're not going to see silly builds like dual Quasars, as they're too fragile. Such a build is just ludicrous for tournament play.

You really need to go back and read Jendon's card again. The Imps have no way for a squadron to activate more than once. That's a Rebel only trick.

As for watching Finals matches, that must be Worlds, and Worlds alone. It certainly isn't US Nationals as Nova has never streamed their matches. And those were vicious ship killing matches, not cautious keep away while harvesting squadrons.

I welcome the ace cap. I've played Sloane for a while; initially with 9 generic swarms + Howlrunner and later with 4-5 phantoms + 2 aces + some uniques. The list that upsets my fighters the most is Sloane hateful 8 and Rieekan Acehole so it's good to see the back of them.

With the ace cap, tie defenders may appear more often as it adds fighter power without quickly overloading squadron control ability. Rogues like firesprays or decimators can also take the place of 2 Tie-Bs or TIE-Ints reducing the control by one, two I suppose as the rogue can do his own thing.

Flak has begun to get more intense with recent waves with LTT star hawks, flèchette raiders, Draven ( ) , Ord pods and titles such as Anihilator & Unity. Republic C70 was also preveiwed with double blue flak for only 36 points I think. Aces had a better time in a flak heavy environment and generic TIE or Z95 swarms can evaporate quickly. High hull generics may appear more such as Y-Wings and the Tie Punni...(I've said too much. Say look at those dead Bothans) .

6 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

You really need to go back and read Jendon's card again. The Imps have no way for a squadron to activate more than once. That's a Rebel only trick.

Yes, the nuance of Jendon's ability sometimes eludes me, but the point still remains that using Jendon as 1 of only 4 Aces probably won't be as obligatory as in the past. Morna Kee is often the third wheel of the MMJ devil's tricycle, so she'd still work. And the original IG-88 can ignore Escort to assassinate a high value enemy squadron with two attacks.

6 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

You're not likely to see many more squadrons. 8 is about the most you can comfortably control without sacrificing too much combat capability. You'll probably see more generic boosting aces, and maybe some niche aces like Whisper. Vader will probably be seen more as he shreds generics, esp. with flight controllers.

I strongly disagree. For players who maxed out squadrons and used mostly Aces, I don't believe that they're going to switch the over-the-limit Aces to generics, keep the same number of squadrons, and use the extra points elsewhere, because that would run contrary to their squadron-heavy strategy.

I'd wager that most players will choose more generics, even if they exceed their ships' squadron activation capacity. IME activating squadrons is most important for attacking ships, because they keep moving; whereas squadrons get locked down by opposing squadrons (unless Intel) and can just fight it out during the Squadron Phase.

My prediction is that players will bring considerably more squadrons than they have in the past, and we're going to see two opposing squadron balls a lot in CWA, which will be thematic for the Clone Wars.

6 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

You're not going to see silly builds like dual Quasars, as they're too fragile. Such a build is just ludicrous for tournament play.

I think it all depends on what squadrons are combined with Double Quasars. Yes, Quasars can't hold up against large, heavy-hitting ships in ship-to-ship combat, but they wouldn't need to be in the thick of the battle to be effective, so their lack of durability might not matter.

In the tournaments that I've watched, in-person , not just online, players with squadron-heavy builds tended to send in their squadrons first while holding their ships back and slow-approaching; for Rounds 1-3, it was mostly squadrons combat; for Rounds 4-6, it was mostly ship combat. That basic battle plan would be compatible with Double Quasars (using Boosted Comms). The Imp fleet wouldn't only be Double Quasars and maxed squadrons. There could be enough points for a Gladiator or VSD, depending on the Commander chosen and ship loadout, so the fleet could have decent ship firepower too.

Regardless, I predict that "carrier" ships will become more popular after CWA launches, and the META pendulum is going to swing back towards builds with squadrons, and greater numbers of generic squadrons.

5 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

I strongly disagree. For players who maxed out squadrons and used mostly Aces, I don't believe that they're going to switch the over-the-limit Aces to generics, keep the same number of squadrons, and use the extra points elsewhere, because that would run contrary to their squadron-heavy strategy.

I'd wager that most players will choose more generics, even if they exceed their ships' squadron activation capacity. IME activating squadrons is most important for attacking ships, because they keep moving; whereas squadrons get locked down by opposing squadrons (unless Intel) and can just fight it out during the Squadron Phase.

There's a tier of "demi-ace" generics that were priced similarly to the token aces and thus overshadowed. Now that they aren't competing for space, there will probably be a natural shift toward them.

TIE Defenders won't leave extra points, while keeping some of the flak resistance aces enjoyed. They're very poor bombers for their cost, but not much worse than most of the Imperial roster and MMJ can stick around to help. Rebels may move toward YT-2400s and maybe Scurrgs (and Hera gains a lot of appeal too), but these choices were already great.

The problem with bringing more squadrons than you can command is you're at a greater disadvantage against a squadronless list, usually because they aim to table you quickly and you can't bring as much firepower to bear now, but sometimes because they have flak that was okay against aces and is better against massed foes (some Starhawk builds, SSDs, maybe the new ships given their stats so far.) This is especially true of squishier carriers (Quasars, Peltas, pricy flotillas) that are severely threatened by Ravager, Admo, Onagers, anything squads can't reach or can't kill quickly enough. That's the real problem this level of skew faces, and it definitely didn't just go away.

It's interesting that our conclusions about the effect of the 4 ace rule are so starkly different. For example, I predicted that the balance of squadron-to-squadron combat will shift more to rebels' advantage precisely because Empire does not have access to Jan Ors' equivalent. Rebels can field Jan with some generic X-wings and still end up with a very tough squadron ball. Meanwhile Imperial fighters tend to be very fragile without their scatters - which is why you seldom see imperial generics. As such, I concluded that Jan will become more important than ever and you'll rarely see a rebel squadron-heavy list without her.

Similarly, I'd never consider Jendon as a likely candidate to be cut from Imperial lists. I guess I can understand the logic that if you can only get 4 squadrons with tokens, you might not want one of those squadrons to stay back and barely use them. However, Jendon is such a crucial element of Imperial squadron rosters that it's hard to justify dropping him. In order to fully utilize the mobility of the imperial fighters you need relay - otherwise your carriers need to go in way too agressively into the danger zone. You might use a generic lambda for that but if you do, you end up with a 15 point squadron that mostly doesn't do anything. Much of the time it simply won't be able to participate in the fight due to having to stay within the carriers' activation range and even if it can actually attack something, it's performance is very unimpressive, no matter the target. Jendon on the other hand not only can participate while providing relay - he can actually clone the strongest squadron attack in your entire list, no matter whether you're attacking ships or other squadrons. The difference between having a squadron that (mostly) doesn't attack and having a squadron that always hits as hard as the best squadron you have is so huge that the extra 5 points you have to pay for it is a steal.

I think that in practice the 4 ace rule will only affect 2 archetypes:

- Sloane aces, which will probably adapt by taking more phantoms

- Rieekan MSU + rogues, which will probably start including Jan and replace some of the aces with YT-2400s

That said, points rebalance was announced along with the rules changes and much of that theorycrafting might become irrelevant if some squadrons become significantly more or less expensive.

21 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

That said, points rebalance was announced along with the rules changes and much of that theorycrafting might become irrelevant if some squadrons become significantly more or less expensive.

26 point Maarek Stele please

I think Maarek would be fine if the player had to make a choice whether to use his ability or not (right now, the answer is always "yes"). More expensive squadrons (Lando, Morna) need to stress their defense tokens to modify their dice. I think it would be interesting if Maarek either had to spend a defense token, or even take 1 damage, to use his ability.

Not much will change. The abusive / peak power combinations don’t need more than 4 aces, Rieekan Aceholes can use the uniques without tokens and lose very little power, Jan/Biggs ball is still strong, and Reserve Hangar Deck already gave imperial generics a boost. The 4 squads with tokens rule is the lightest possible touch to adjust squadron play I can imagine and people are overestimating the effects.

I can’t answer how it’ll affect Clone Wars uniques and squad composition until I see all their uniques.

What I can tell you is stuff like double quasar (or any double fragile carrier build) isn’t going to get more popular. Nobody sensible is going to dawdle and just let the quasars send their hordes in for 3 turns. A sensible opponent will blast right past your screen, murder the quasars, and table you.

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

It's interesting that our conclusions about the effect of the 4 ace rule are so starkly different. For example, I predicted that the balance of squadron-to-squadron combat will shift more to rebels' advantage precisely because Empire does not have access to Jan Ors' equivalent. Rebels can field Jan with some generic X-wings and still end up with a very tough squadron ball. Meanwhile Imperial fighters tend to be very fragile without their scatters - which is why you seldom see imperial generics. As such, I concluded that Jan will become more important than ever and you'll rarely see a rebel squadron-heavy list without her.

Similarly, I'd never consider Jendon as a likely candidate to be cut from Imperial lists. I guess I can understand the logic that if you can only get 4 squadrons with tokens, you might not want one of those squadrons to stay back and barely use them. However, Jendon is such a crucial element of Imperial squadron rosters that it's hard to justify dropping him. In order to fully utilize the mobility of the imperial fighters you need relay - otherwise your carriers need to go in way too agressively into the danger zone. You might use a generic lambda for that but if you do, you end up with a 15 point squadron that mostly doesn't do anything. Much of the time it simply won't be able to participate in the fight due to having to stay within the carriers' activation range and even if it can actually attack something, it's performance is very unimpressive, no matter the target. Jendon on the other hand not only can participate while providing relay - he can actually clone the strongest squadron attack in your entire list, no matter whether you're attacking ships or other squadrons. The difference between having a squadron that (mostly) doesn't attack and having a squadron that always hits as hard as the best squadron you have is so huge that the extra 5 points you have to pay for it is a steal.

I think that in practice the 4 ace rule will only affect 2 archetypes:

- Sloane aces, which will probably adapt by taking more phantoms

- Rieekan MSU + rogues, which will probably start including Jan and replace some of the aces with YT-2400s

That said, points rebalance was announced along with the rules changes and much of that theorycrafting might become irrelevant if some squadrons become significantly more or less expensive.

Responding merely to the bold part, Reserve Hangar Decks may not be a Biggsball of X-Wings, but its pretty much an imperial generics trick. I think you'll see plenty of squints backed up by RHD's in the future, if you aren't now.

27 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Responding merely to the bold part, Reserve Hangar Decks may not be a Biggsball of X-Wings, but its pretty much an imperial generics trick. I think you'll see plenty of squints backed up by RHD's in the future, if you aren't now.

I keep trying to make E-wings work to fight that inevitable squint wave. I'm pretty sure they're the Fetch of Armada....

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

I keep trying to make E-wings work to fight that inevitable squint wave. I'm pretty sure they're the Fetch of Armada....

Looking at my baseline squadron ball:

A x3, Lando, Tycho, Shara... I'll be good.

Edit: Wait, that's not Clone Wars. Sorry, I didn't answer the title question. I dunno about Clone Wars because I don't have the Clones / Droids squadrons yet.

Squadrons nerfed again. Every rules change since wave 3

Won't have any effect, because I mostly play casual thematic scenarios so I will just ignore the rules change.

Problay wont affect my play since I never really played any of the ace heavy list. Though I did notice when the cap was announced I played around with idea of how my 4 ace synergiezed together/ what squadron mission profile they tried to communicate.

37 minutes ago, Hyperspace Ninja said:

Problay wont affect my play since I never really played any of the ace heavy list. Though I did notice when the cap was announced I played around with idea of how my 4 ace synergiezed together/ what squadron mission profile they tried to communicate.

It's just a certain type of list that is really not fun to play against. The ban of more than 4 aces and getting rid of last-first-shenanigans like Govervor Pryce tries to end lists like this one which won the polish national, I would guess.

On 9/29/2020 at 12:06 PM, Blail Blerg said:

Squadrons nerfed again. Every rules change since wave 3

A repeat. In case some of you can’t handle factual truth.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

A repeat. In case some of you can’t handle factual truth.

Except it’s not. Not even close

Flotilla change was not related to squadrons. Commanders not on flotillas was not related to squadrons.

Relay and Rhymer got errata. Most card errata was with ships and their titles. Some of those supported squadrons. Some didn’t.

Just in case you can’t handle the factual truth.

14 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Except it’s not. Not even close

Flotilla change was not related to squadrons. Commanders not on flotillas was not related to squadrons.

Relay and Rhymer got errata. Most card errata was with ships and their titles. Some of those supported squadrons. Some didn’t.

Just in case you can’t handle the factual truth.

Babe, if you don’t understand what flotillas were used for in wave 3-4 Rieekan lists you wouldn’t know the truth.
also you conveniently forgot rieekan neef itself.
if you can’t comprehend the incredible impact of rieekan on squadrons you’re simply missing out on very important analytical information and I can’t help you there.
Also you’re failing to use any reasonable comparison of numbers to note how important that build is/was.
It’s sitting there staring at you in the face.

Data for the data god

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Babe, if you don’t understand what flotillas were used for in wave 3-4 Rieekan lists you wouldn’t know the truth.
also you conveniently forgot rieekan neef itself.
Also you’re failing to use any reasonable comparison of Numbers to note how important that build is/was.
It’s sitting there staring at you in the face.

I’m not your babe, guy.

Flotillas were used for everything. They allowed for abusive stuff like fish farm and commander lifeboats. Their nerf wasn’t for squadrons. It was for everything. In case you wouldn’t know the truth.

Sure, Rieekan, Yavaris, and Gallant Haven all got nerfed to weaken a single build. Demolisher got nerfed to avoid it being so abusive. So did avenger.

So relax. It’s okay to be wrong. The trick is learning from it and rephrasing your statement with less condescending tones and to be more accurate. “There have been a bunch of rules changes to weaken squadrons.” Would have been accurate. Saying, boldly and wrongly, that they all were is the problem.

either way, engaging with you has never been productive. So have a good day. I’m out.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Babe, if you don’t understand what flotillas were used for in wave 3-4 Rieekan lists you wouldn’t know the truth.
also you conveniently forgot rieekan neef itself.
Also you’re failing to use any reasonable comparison of Numbers to note how important that build is/was.
It’s sitting there staring at you in the face.

It's a stretch to attribute the flotilla nerf to 2+3 specifically, though.

Like, yes, 2+3 was annoying as heck and a huge problem.

And yes, flotillas make really really good carriers.

But huge numbers of flotillas were popping up in every list, Imp and Rebel, squads or not, just for cheap activations.

There was literally an 8 Goz flotilla list in the 2016 Worlds, that did surprisingly well.

Could you imagine that a game with 76 different options for squadrons based on Star Wars, a series that had capital ship battles in only the final movie of the original trilogy, would have squadrons be an integral part of the meta?