How many LAATs, HMPs, Xis, Heralds?

I think we know the points now too right?

Two Republic and two Separatist. I do not play sequel factions.

Do we need worry about having enough of the HMPs to make them worth it for the ship ability?

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Do we need worry about having enough of the HMPs to make them worth it for the ship ability?

Networked aim works with friendly locks. The locks do not need to be from other ships with Networked Aim.

When do they release?

1 minute ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

When do they release?

2 days. You should put in your orders

42 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Do we need worry about having enough of the HMPs to make them worth it for the ship ability?

6 HMPs would be a very powerfull list, lots of health, lots of locks and thus mods. 5HMPs less so, but with room for upgrades like Probe Droids, the config or a crew, could still be interesting.

Actually, for running 1 or 2 in a list, the interesting thing here is the crew-slot! The HMP suddently became Seperatits cheap crew carrier and tool box.

I would get 1 or 5.

1 hour ago, Sciencius said:

Actually, for running 1 or 2 in a list, the interesting thing here is the crew-slot! The HMP suddently became Seperatits cheap crew carrier and tool box.

I hope that this means that we will get some sort of battle droid crew card. In cannon, they are used as a troop transport for dropping off B-2 battle-droids. I could definitely see it as a card seeing how the imps have death troopers, and the republic now has the wolf-pack and ghost company.

As for how many HMPs I would say 2 to start. Thats how many the limited dots are, and they seem to be more of a supportish craft??

Oh shoot. Is there a two dot limit?

i honestly think they will be fun for stupid novel reasons. Even though my head generally hurts when trying to consider building around them.

Yes. If I'm not mistaken, the Onderon Oppressor and the Genosian prototype are both two pip

No preorders for me, maybe I'll try to FLGS sometime next year. I'm not shelling out until I'm actually playing. But if I was buying:

• 1 LAAT. I don't think 2 will be any good at all. I didn't really think so back at early cost guesses around 43 points, and at 51? Naw.
• 1 Xi. I can't see flying two.
• 1 Heralds. I don't need more than 6 T-70s, so that's that.
• 5 HMP. Well, maybe not. I'm thinking of just not ever buying more seps, and maybe trading off most of mine. I'm just less interested in them. Ah, but HMP kinda speak to me. Slap on some probes for long-locks and configs and run either: 5 Init 3s or 4 Init 1s + Doug with Grievous and K2-B4 for extra tanky. I can totally imagine running a squad of five.
  • If not 5, then 2. A single is probably the best filler/supporter/relay ship at the moment, and a pair to run the multi-dots seems reasonable. Two Geonosians with Slip-N-Slide and Ion Cannons? Neat. Probably not good, but neat.
• 2 TIE/rb. Harder to say, since the points are so uncertain. I think they'll be on the high-side (certainly not under 30, like I've seen some people suggest), given the points costs on other stuff this wave. If the HMP is breakpointed at 34, I expect these will be. A pair as blocker/bruiser/bullet sponge seem interesting.

1 hour ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Yes. If I'm not mistaken, the Onderon Oppressor and the Genosian prototype are both two pip

But you need four to run two of each pip.

5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

How many LAATs, HMPs, Xis, Heralds?

I think we know the points now too right?

Only the first 3 come out this week. Heralds and Tie R/B are due October 30th.

I am mostly vested in the R factions but I can see having 2 LAATs, 2 HMPs, and 1 or possibly 2 Xis.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

No preorders for me, maybe I'll try to FLGS sometime next year. I'm not shelling out until I'm actually playing.

Yeah. I struggled with this thought as well.

But I figured, hey, currently I can afford it, so might as well get some business running for the LGS and FFG/Asmodee. As far as I'm aware, Xwing has been a product that has made me pretty happy.

Am honestly sad that it will be quite some time before I suspect I will be getting significant play time (esp not against myself) with any Xwing ships though.

*glares at 51 base price of a LAAT, barely holding on*

...

THERE! ARE! FOUR! LAATS!

*walks out with the guards*

Bonus points if you get the reference. Seriously though, I'm so fonging close to going full complaint thread over the design of that ship ability anyway. It's going to hamper the chassis for it's whole life in the versatility department.

32 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

*glares at 51 base price of a LAAT, barely holding on*

...

THERE! ARE! FOUR! LAATS!

*walks out with the guards*

Bonus points if you get the reference. Seriously though, I'm so fonging close to going full complaint thread over the design of that ship ability anyway. It's going to hamper the chassis for it's whole life in the versatility department.

I don't get the reference.

---

People are gonna hate me for this. (And people hated me for this in the past already. Really guyss, calm down)

But. The LAAT is not right at 51. The Arc really probably shouldn't be 42... But cmon. Arc at 42, LAAT at 51? That's ridiculous.

The LAAT is probably going to be worse than the Arc. Similar stats, and the reroll for an ally is NOT equivalent value of a 3rd die. It should be much closer to something near the Xi shuttle, which is also similarly overcosted at release.

Either way, the LAAT should be worse than the Arc, which puts it under 42. That's right. 9 points overcosted minimum. If not closer to 36-38. a full 13 points overcosted.

FFG is oddly drinking the particular poison of super nerfing the ship at release and then buffing it later safely... which kills the first few games of enjoyment.

---

Also, I'm not super happy with the side turrets. It feels like it should be some sort of front arc'ed ship. Maybe wide front arc.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also, I'm not super happy with the side turrets. It feels like it should be some sort of front arc'ed ship. Maybe wide front arc.

2 die 360 arc.

3 charge Fire support: spend for ally at 0-3 for a reroll.

Done.

Hey, they got pretty close.

But I think people would call mine blatantly lazy design in 2.0 terms, so what we got has a lot more nuance... Like most things in 2e.

_______

I'm pretty happy with the design, considering the faction as a whole and the theme of LAAT/I in space.

Rerolling 2 die, then console your lock onto then next Torrent.... Right people? Isn't this spot-on for Republic strategy?

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

The LAAT is probably going to be worse than the Arc. Similar stats, and the reroll for an ally is NOT equivalent value of a 3rd die

Your right. It is much better.

A re-roll on 2 dice if it is already focus modded pushes it from 1.5 damage to 1.8 damage. A single red dice with a single focus is a rise from 1.5 damage to 2.75. This means on the initial turn that the LAAT aids its teammates it is granting a bonus .6 damage. So at first it looks like a loss for the LAAT.

However, the way the math of double modding works out means that a full re-roll isn't really as important as re-rolling 1-2 dice. On a 3 dice attack, that double re-roll is actually granting .7 damage, meaning to two different ships your list overall gains 1.4 damage on the alpha-strike, compared to .9 damage from a red dice.

But the utility doesn't stop there. Mod density and dice density are both important vs high defense targets, like our little old friends the Nantex. Focused, the LAAT is pushing .8 damage average on an unfocused Nantex, while with 3 dice it would push 1.2, meaning a gain of .4 in a 'real' table situation where defense dice are in play. But 3 dice attacking allies able to double mod due to the LAAT go from an average damage of 1.2, to 1.7, a gain of .5. This means vs high defense targets, the LAAT losing a dice to give a bonus dice is strictly better even if you run out of charges and can only do it once per turn, so vs 3 agility it just is outright better than a red dice every turn. On top of this, you potentially can 'save up' charges if an attack rolls hits naturally.

And this effect is magnified more by allied range 1 shots, as in a fight vs a 3 defense target, your now gaining .6 per ally aided. And the effect has the benefit of being consistent: A double modded shot rolls 'terrible' results less often and biases way harder towards the upper end performance, because blanking out is so unlikely.

Dice density and action economy is hugely critical in X-wing, and there is almost no scenario you would rather spread your dice and actions out across your list rather than push them onto one ship. If the meta was full of VCXs and Decimators, sure it might not be wise to use the LAAT to effectively 'loan' the equivalent of an extra red and some change to other ships, because the efficiency is greatly lost in scenarios your trying to push through evade results. But in the reality we are in where not being able to consistently land 3 damage often means you may as well have rolled 0 dice, it really does matter that this thing can double mod a 3 or even 4 red shot. The LAAT creates a meaningful TTK difference against what is likely to be the best list in the meta (As 3 single modded red dice attack fail to kill a Nantex in one pass, while 2 3 dice attacks with a focus and the LAAT's support, and a 2 red dice attack with focus from the LAAT itself, do).

On top of this, the LAAT has an extra health, and can hold a crew. It compares fabulously to Dutch, a ship with an extremely similar 'mobility profile' that has a weaker version of the ability and which costs 40 despite having 2 less health and no crew capacity. And the LAAT has access to fortify, which is one of the highest value actions in the game.

Saying this thing should be under 42 points is very silly. You really think this thing is worse than a naked Custom YT, or is on par with an X-wing? Does a 10 health ship that you could run 5 of really sound like a great idea, even if the ability was literally removed from it?

Also, you can literally just slap a missile onto the thing to get a 3rd red dice for 4 points, and get a bonus attack on top. Or run a homing missile at 5, to make this thing push a lot of VERY consistent damage onto a very tanky meta (2 allies with 3 reds backed up by an LAAT taking a lock with a homing missile push 6.5 pre-evade damage, and while that is lower than 9 single modded reds, its critical to, again, remember this 'pushes past' green dice in a manner the reds fail to do).

Is it gunna be the best ship in the meta? I dunno. But saying 'this thing needs to be T-70 prices' is just... not realistic.

2 hours ago, dezzmont said:

Your right. It is much better.

A re-roll on 2 dice if it is already focus modded pushes it from 1.5 damage to 1.8 damage. A single red dice with a single focus is a rise from 1.5 damage to 2.75. This means on the initial turn that the LAAT aids its teammates it is granting a bonus .6 damage. So at first it looks like a loss for the LAAT.

However, the way the math of double modding works out means that a full re-roll isn't really as important as re-rolling 1-2 dice. On a 3 dice attack, that double re-roll is actually granting .7 damage, meaning to two different ships your list overall gains 1.4 damage on the alpha-strike, compared to .9 damage from a red dice.

But the utility doesn't stop there. Mod density and dice density are both important vs high defense targets, like our little old friends the Nantex. Focused, the LAAT is pushing .8 damage average on an unfocused Nantex, while with 3 dice it would push 1.2, meaning a gain of .4 in a 'real' table situation where defense dice are in play. But 3 dice attacking allies able to double mod due to the LAAT go from an average damage of 1.2, to 1.7, a gain of .5. This means vs high defense targets, the LAAT losing a dice to give a bonus dice is strictly better even if you run out of charges and can only do it once per turn, so vs 3 agility it just is outright better than a red dice every turn. On top of this, you potentially can 'save up' charges if an attack rolls hits naturally.

And this effect is magnified more by allied range 1 shots, as in a fight vs a 3 defense target, your now gaining .6 per ally aided. And the effect has the benefit of being consistent: A double modded shot rolls 'terrible' results less often and biases way harder towards the upper end performance, because blanking out is so unlikely.

Dice density and action economy is hugely critical in X-wing, and there is almost no scenario you would rather spread your dice and actions out across your list rather than push them onto one ship. If the meta was full of VCXs and Decimators, sure it might not be wise to use the LAAT to effectively 'loan' the equivalent of an extra red and some change to other ships, because the efficiency is greatly lost in scenarios your trying to push through evade results. But in the reality we are in where not being able to consistently land 3 damage often means you may as well have rolled 0 dice, it really does matter that this thing can double mod a 3 or even 4 red shot. The LAAT creates a meaningful TTK difference against what is likely to be the best list in the meta (As 3 single modded red dice attack fail to kill a Nantex in one pass, while 2 3 dice attacks with a focus and the LAAT's support, and a 2 red dice attack with focus from the LAAT itself, do).

On top of this, the LAAT has an extra health, and can hold a crew. It compares fabulously to Dutch, a ship with an extremely similar 'mobility profile' that has a weaker version of the ability and which costs 40 despite having 2 less health and no crew capacity. And the LAAT has access to fortify, which is one of the highest value actions in the game.

Saying this thing should be under 42 points is very silly. You really think this thing is worse than a naked Custom YT, or is on par with an X-wing? Does a 10 health ship that you could run 5 of really sound like a great idea, even if the ability was literally removed from it?

Also, you can literally just slap a missile onto the thing to get a 3rd red dice for 4 points, and get a bonus attack on top. Or run a homing missile at 5, to make this thing push a lot of VERY consistent damage onto a very tanky meta (2 allies with 3 reds backed up by an LAAT taking a lock with a homing missile push 6.5 pre-evade damage, and while that is lower than 9 single modded reds, its critical to, again, remember this 'pushes past' green dice in a manner the reds fail to do).

Is it gunna be the best ship in the meta? I dunno. But saying 'this thing needs to be T-70 prices' is just... not realistic.

Your maths are no numbers I’ve ever heard of nor commonly heard. youve also totally forgotten the lack of the ability actually even going off due to arc limitations, which makes it even more suspect.
frankly you need a source.

also time will tell but I suspect this is not nearly anywhere as good as this tale makes it out to be. In due time we shall see who is right.

6 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

*glares at 51 base price of a LAAT, barely holding on*

...

THERE! ARE! FOUR! LAATS!

This is from Chain of Command, if I am not mistaken ( " There are four lights ") . One of the best "Star Trek: the Next Generation" episodes ever. Greetings from Germany.

@Mighty DING DING DING!

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

No preorders for me

• 5 HMP. Well, maybe not. I'm thinking of just not ever buying more seps, and maybe trading off most of mine. I'm just less interested in them.

I share your lack of interest in this faction. I really only want the Synced Laser Cannon card, times two, to decorate my B-Wings. I might just wait for some of the cards to show up in the a la carte aftermarket rather than buy two ships I'd probably never use.

I preordered 2 of each.

9 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

THERE! ARE! FOUR! LAATS!

*walks out with the guards*

I love you . 😘

Back to the question: I think one of each is usually the right answer, at least until there’s a compelling reason to go deeper. There’s too much variety in the game to make hardcore spam necessary.

For some reason I’ve preordered two HMPs though; probably because I’ve come to terms with Separatists being the hardcore spam faction. On the flip side, I’m actually passing on Heralds, at least for the foreseeable future; I’d love to get some of its goodies, and I’d be fine with the A-Wing, but I really don’t need more T-70s. Like really, really not...

I preordered 1 LAAT and 1 Xi from this batch. I don’t see me ever needing more of either. Both are support ships.

I don’t really play seppies, so I’ll get a hmp or two eventually but no rush.

For next batch i have a preorder for one Heralds. I’m debating how many Brutes, 1 or 2.