1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:Technically true. Practically irrelevant, since you can't get extra bonus attacks with the special weapons.
Linked red Focus might be nice, though. Costs an energy, but when you need to rotate your guns and still want some mods, it looks OK.
I keep forgetting the new CR-90 isn't a turret main gun. 😑 But my friend,I can't see anything in the rules that prohibits the bonus being granted to an equipment with the turret type? Reference?
8 points for MMP, seems too high.
You might get a single 4 die attack, in bullseye or more likely two 3 die attacks in forward arc, maybe 1 or 2 180' arc attacks.
So it less powerful than Proton rockets, and barrage rockets, but more flexible.
I think it should have been 6 points.
3 hours ago, KCDodger said:These concussion bombs. It reads like you HAVE to deploy them? Help me out here.
Once you pop the fun don't stop!
EDIT: I got ninja'd by Bitter Fig while running errands it seems. Glad to see the Pringles hive mind is strong.
Edited by dezzmontSo Malarus (Xi shuttle) + 6 Epsilon cadets (TIE FO) with automated targeting protocols, seems pretty good..
Alternatively, drop AT and add Agent Terrex to Malarus.
Grrrr.... Suppressive Gunner is base size costed. 😠
3 hours ago, Gausebeck said:Does that mean the remaining ATP ships have to keep attacking the already-destroyed ship rather than attack a non-destroyed ship at longer range?
Yes, though do remember that if you have multiple targets in the same range band, their actual physical distance doesn't matter.
2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:It's like the old Pringles ad.
If all the charges there, the seal is intact. Wait until you want to start.
But once you break that seal, the
legions of ****aroma of potato crispsthe bombs start flying, and you have to keep dropping them until you're done. A timely reload is like putting the lid back on the can.
Once you pop, you just can't stop. Yeah, I wanted a pringles alt-art of these from the moment I saw them.
8 point Multi-Missile Pods are so hilariously bad. Hardly anything can take them, and then they are paying extra over 3-die missiles for what? The ability to take bad shots out the side, but only if they have a Lock (or are the Baktoid Prototype, I guess)? 3 dice, but only at range 2? One fewer die than Prockets (still for more points) that still can't be shot twice without reloading? They aren't any better on the HMP itself, since it already HAS a 180 front arc.
6 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:I keep forgetting the new CR-90 isn't a turret main gun. 😑 But my friend,I can't see anything in the rules that prohibits the bonus being granted to an equipment with the turret type? Reference?
In the epic rules, you can do any number of bonus attacks, but each "attack" or "bonus attack" header can only be used once. That's why there's four entries on the Point Defense Battery, so you can do it four times. Most other weapons are only ever once per turn.
You could use Ghost Company to do, say, a Turbolaser attack after a primary attack, but you'd still have to pay the energy, and you couldn't do it if you'd already Turbolasered, and you couldn't Turbolaser a second time.
Mostly, it won't make a difference. You can chop and change the order of attacks, and still have to pay the costs. Perhaps there's some 2nd layer of trick, where you perform the primary attack at a different time, to trigger a turret attack at a non-standard time, but I can't think of any specific examples in Republic where it matters.
1 hour ago, Matanui3 said:8 point Multi-Missile Pods are so hilariously bad. Hardly anything can take them, and then they are paying extra over 3-die missiles for what? The ability to take bad shots out the side, but only if they have a Lock (or are the Baktoid Prototype, I guess)? 3 dice, but only at range 2? One fewer die than Prockets (still for more points) that still can't be shot twice without reloading? They aren't any better on the HMP itself, since it already HAS a 180 front arc.
2 die against targets w/n full front arc for 1 charge. Pay an extra charge for 3 die in front arc (so = to Brockets with 2 charges), Pay 2 extra (over the base single charge cost) for 4 die against a target in bullseye.
It's a side grade of Brockets...
I'm surprised that the HMP has to pay for it's config upgrade, considering it seems like it's built into the chassis design, given it's lack of turn-around maneuvers, particularly I'm wondering if the 4 and 6 point ups on the special Init3 pilots is worthwhile... They really don't strike me as ships you want to pay nearly 50 points for... I guess I'll have to try them out and see if the three bank sideslip is worth those points.
And yeah, massively disappointed that Synced only works on the Geonosian Prototype.. And the cost for MMP.. Kinda glad I just ordered 2 of these now, difficult to justify more of them.. :/ And I was so excited too.. I love the mechanics behind them, but I wonder if they will actually work in practice?
17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:2 die against targets w/n full front arc for 1 charge. Pay an extra charge for 3 die in front arc (so = to Brockets with 2 charges), Pay 2 extra (over the base single charge cost) for 4 die against a target in bullseye.
It's a side grade of Brockets...
Yes and no. Most double-missile ships have a Focus. Few double-missile ships have a Calculate. If using it lock-based, 8 is clearly too much. I'd been thinking it'd be a fun option on Gunboats and Punishers and maybe even named TIE Bomber fillers. Right now? Not a dang chance. It's really overpriced.
2 minutes ago, RejjeN said:And yeah, massively disappointed that Synced only works on the Geonosian Prototype.. And the cost for MMP.. Kinda glad I just ordered 2 of these now, difficult to justify more of them.. 😕 And I was so excited too.. I love the mechanics behind them, but I wonder if they will actually work in practice?
I'm oddly excited for five.
I3s with Configs and DRK-1 Probe Droids might be the natural list. Lots of firing arcs, huge time on target, with consistent red dice due to the semi-passive rerolls. MMP really never figured into any of my thoughts (it struck me as mostly useless for them, IMHO), and I guess having 4 with SLC wouldn't have been that terrible, but these can get locks so easily with DRK-1 that you could just run missiles.
1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:I'm oddly excited for five.
I3s with Configs and DRK-1 Probe Droids might be the natural list. Lots of firing arcs, huge time on target, with consistent red dice due to the semi-passive rerolls. MMP really never figured into any of my thoughts (it struck me as mostly useless for them, IMHO), and I guess having 4 with SLC wouldn't have been that terrible, but these can get locks so easily with DRK-1 that you could just run missiles.
If only it was that easy to get 5 of them with FFG's current distribution issues.. I may proxy it, though I was hoping to make some mixed lists as I don't really like spamming stuff when it's not a swarm list (and even then I tend to play around with stuff as able)
I'm glad they've put all the builder keywords in, that's pretty cool!
Sadly, ketsu is missing the mandalorian keyword
58 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:In the epic rules, you can do any number of bonus attacks, but each "attack" or "bonus attack" header can only be used once. That's why there's four entries on the Point Defense Battery, so you can do it four times. Most other weapons are only ever once per turn.
You could use Ghost Company to do, say, a Turbolaser attack after a primary attack, but you'd still have to pay the energy, and you couldn't do it if you'd already Turbolasered, and you couldn't Turbolaser a second time.
Mostly, it won't make a difference. You can chop and change the order of attacks, and still have to pay the costs. Perhaps there's some 2nd layer of trick, where you perform the primary attack at a different time, to trigger a turret attack at a non-standard time, but I can't think of any specific examples in Republic where it matters.
Just to check, is this something that shows up only in the Epic Rulebook? The online download Epic rules reference, including the upcoming one, as well as the main RRG don't say that. I'm not trying to be contrary here, but it's just not there, as far as I can see. Matter of fact it doesn't seem to really acknowledge it well where it happens in other regards either. 😕
My current understanding is that when you are granted the bonus attack from a source, it basically copies everything about the attack header, or indeed bonus attack header, from after the colon, and with the stats in the side bar. I understand that you can only perform each printed 'bonus attack' once, like on PDB, but when an effect granted you one it just copied and used the statistics and doesn't actually 'use up' one of the printed bonus ones.
Basically, some cards grant you bonus attacks that copy other attacks. Then if a card grants you a bonus attack as it's printed wording, that's just what it does. And if you use a effect from a card to get a bonus attack and copy a attack card that has a bonus attack header, you essentially just have an extra instance of said bonus attack header. So for PDB, you have four instances, and GC grants you one more.
I'm gonna need a solid reference my dude if you got one. But I'm open to the possibility that the RG's don't actually have this covered, at least sufficiently. Like, ghost company (and others) grant a bonus attack. They don't say "you may use a bonus attack granted by another card'. Because of course that's silly. GC to me read bonus in addition to any other bonuses.
56 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:Yes and no. Most double-missile ships have a Focus. Few double-missile ships have a Calculate. If using it lock-based, 8 is clearly too much. I'd been thinking it'd be a fun option on Gunboats and Punishers and maybe even named TIE Bomber fillers. Right now? Not a dang chance. It's really overpriced.
Fair, though only the TIE/Sa has no access to getting a calc token. Punishers have access to PasSens, LAAT has access to 3P0, K-wings have access 3P0 or K2S0 and HMPs have it baseline. Reb and Pubbie options are expensive, though I've no issue with that.
9 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:travesty simulate
TRAGEDY SIMULATE. get with da plot
2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:TRAGEDY SIMULATE. get with da plot
I'm gonna stick with travesty just because it had 'absurd' in it's definition 😜 it's a travesty of a tragedy simulator 🤪
10 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:LAAT/i wants a word with you. As do Multi-Missile Pods.
Most likely FFG started pricing LAAT at 51 due to testing. LAAT is an awesome support ship. I bet any lower in cost and Republic players can create insanely efficient lists that reminiscent of Sinker Swarms.
For me, i really want them to be around 49 to 50 points. Cuz i wanna be able to fly 4 of them. Or 1x LAAT & 6x Torrents. Hmmm, that looks familiar. 🤔
13 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:The Geonosian Prototype is the only HMP with Cannon upgrade slots. That's disappointing.
9 hours ago, Scum4Life said:8 points for MMP, seems too high.
You might get a single 4 die attack, in bullseye or more likely two 3 die attacks in forward arc, maybe 1 or 2 180' arc attacks.
So it less powerful than Proton rockets, and barrage rockets, but more flexible.
I think it should have been 6 points.
7 hours ago, Matanui3 said:Yes, though do remember that if you have multiple targets in the same range band, their actual physical distance doesn't matter.
Once you pop, you just can't stop. Yeah, I wanted a pringles alt-art of these from the moment I saw them.
8 point Multi-Missile Pods are so hilariously bad. Hardly anything can take them, and then they are paying extra over 3-die missiles for what? The ability to take bad shots out the side, but only if they have a Lock (or are the Baktoid Prototype, I guess)? 3 dice, but only at range 2? One fewer die than Prockets (still for more points) that still can't be shot twice without reloading? They aren't any better on the HMP itself, since it already HAS a 180 front arc.
5 hours ago, RejjeN said:I'm surprised that the HMP has to pay for it's config upgrade, considering it seems like it's built into the chassis design, given it's lack of turn-around maneuvers, particularly I'm wondering if the 4 and 6 point ups on the special Init3 pilots is worthwhile... They really don't strike me as ships you want to pay nearly 50 points for... I guess I'll have to try them out and see if the three bank sideslip is worth those points.
And yeah, massively disappointed that Synced only works on the Geonosian Prototype.. And the cost for MMP.. Kinda glad I just ordered 2 of these now, difficult to justify more of them.. 😕 And I was so excited too.. I love the mechanics behind them, but I wonder if they will actually work in practice?
Man, it feels they've dropped the ball with the HMP. Or, to be more thematic, the frisbee disc.
Was looking forward for some dual cannon action on a durable platform for a reasonable cheap price. Oh well.
And the MMP for 8p... LOL
4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:TRAGEDY SIMULATE. get with da plot
That's also how we roll here in Lisbon
4 hours ago, FastWalker said:Most likely FFG started pricing LAAT at 51 due to testing. LAAT is an awesome support ship. I bet any lower in cost and Republic players can create insanely efficient lists that reminiscent of Sinker Swarms.
For me, i really want them to be around 49 to 50 points. Cuz i wanna be able to fly 4 of them. Or 1x LAAT & 6x Torrents. Hmmm, that looks familiar. 🤔
55 for Hawk seems overpriced. Drop it to 52 makes it a bit better. MM Pods should be 6.
8 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:Just to check, is this something that shows up only in the Epic Rulebook? The online download Epic rules reference, including the upcoming one, as well as the main RRG don't say that. I'm not trying to be contrary here, but it's just not there, as far as I can see. Matter of fact it doesn't seem to really acknowledge it well where it happens in other regards either. 😕
I'm gonna need a solid reference my dude if you got one. But I'm open to the possibility that the RG's don't actually have this covered, at least sufficiently. Like, ghost company (and others) grant a bonus attack. They don't say "you may use a bonus attack granted by another card'. Because of course that's silly. GC to me read bonus in addition to any other bonuses.
Huge ship appendix, which is actually in the main rulebook, something I keep forgetting. Anyhow, rules quote:
QuoteBonus Attacks
When an attack granted by a special weapon has the “Bonus Attack:” header, a huge ship equipped with that upgrade may perform the listed bonus attack while it engages, before or after its standard attack. Additionally:
• A huge ship may perform any number of bonus attacks each round.
• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” header only once per round.
• If an effect grants a huge ship a bonus attack that is a primary attack or a special attack with an “attack:” header, it can perform only one bonus attack using that primary attack or “attack:” header per round. (RR 1.10, p. 35)
That last bullet ought to cover Ghost Company, or Veteran Turret Gunner or any of these other bonus attack sources. They just don't add anything to a huge ship, just reshuffle, and it doesn't matter.
8 hours ago, Hiemfire said:Fair, though only the TIE/Sa has no access to getting a calc token. Punishers have access to PasSens, LAAT has access to 3P0, K-wings have access 3P0 or K2S0 and HMPs have it baseline. Reb and Pubbie options are expensive, though I've no issue with that.
Passive Sensors kind of proves my point. That's what someone needs to pay to get a lock to fire these at lower initiative, so it shouldn't be charging a premium for the "easier" method of using Calculates. Droid-crew for Calculates are also incredibly expensive.
The only place where 8 points is close to justified is the Baktoid Prototype Hyena, since they're the only ship which has a native Calculate and not-a-full-180-arc. But even there, with Energy Shell Charges at 5 points, 8 for MMP doesn't seem like a great deal.
Maybe the full-arc effect is worth 8 points on stuff like Bombers and Punishers and Gunboats, but I'd have rather seen this come out at 6 so folks actually try it, and have a nerf later if needed.
1 hour ago, pakirby said:55 for Hawk seems overpriced. Drop it to 52 makes it a bit better.
I keep thinking Hawk might be secretly strong. His text is a lot more forgiving than Swoop, but it probably needs to be felt-out on table. Maybe something like a fast-moving block of Hawk and 2 ARCs, plus a fast ship like Ric or a CLT Jedi as a pocket ace flanker.
4 hours ago, Vector Strike said:Man, it feels they've dropped the ball with the HMP. Or, to be more thematic, the frisbee disc.
Was looking forward for some dual cannon action on a durable platform for a reasonable cheap price. Oh well.
I just keep thinking HMP don't need extra weapons. Wide arcs and consistent mods can go a long way. It's like 5A, but beefy instead of nimble, but sideslips might be really practical mobility.
@theBitterFig thanks for the citing, I knew of that one but I don't think it actually covers Ghosts really. And before I go further let me just make it clear that really I don't think the rule is just clear written regardless which way it goes. Instructions unclear, put porg in toaster. 😁
All together that last bullet doesn't cover [ bonus attack ] as a header at all. Considering the whole section does refer to them separately and differently I see that as important. I read it as saying on huge ships, when granted a bonus attack of a (strictly) 'attack' header type, you can only gain one bonus attack from that even if an effect grants you another. This would restrict that bullet to cannons, turret upgrades, torpedoes, missiles, and a few random other things. Which makes sense, as those cards don't have associated costs much of the time to keep their user in check the way hardpoint weapons do with energy. And that's the way we've played it.
For it to prevent the interaction it would, to my mind, need updated to say...
• If an effect grants a huge ship a bonus attack that is a primary attack or a special attack with an “attack:” ###Or "bonus attack:"### header, it can perform only one bonus attack using that primary attack,* “attack:” ### or "bonus attack:"### header per round. (RR 1.1 1
And that may well have been the intention, but my case is that as written, if an effect grants you an bonus attack and you select a bonus attack header as your weapon to use, the card granting the bonus attack has not triggered that last point, and isn't using the second as the bonus effect source is different from the card it's copying so does not impact how many uses it natively gives you.
Put another way, if they instead reworded the second bullet to say...
• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” header only once per round. ###Upgrades with the "Bonus Attack:" header cannot be selected for bonus attacks granted by other effects.###
And that's probably the more sensible way and clear. Unless it's going to end up as it's own separate bullet point.
Just now, ForceSensitive said:@theBitterFig thanks for the citing, I knew of that one but I don't think it actually covers Ghosts really.
I dunno what else to say. I look at the rules and it says to me "it can't be done."
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:Passive Sensors kind of proves my point. That's what someone needs to pay to get a lock to fire these at lower initiative, so it shouldn't be charging a premium for the "easier" method of using Calculates. Droid-crew for Calculates are also incredibly expensive.
The only place where 8 points is close to justified is the Baktoid Prototype Hyena, since they're the only ship which has a native Calculate and not-a-full-180-arc. But even there, with Energy Shell Charges at 5 points, 8 for MMP doesn't seem like a great deal.
And the Baktoid Prototype barely gains anything from not having to use a lock, since their ability also allows them to ignore the lock requirement. So they don’t really want to have to pay for that either.
5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:I dunno what else to say. I look at the rules and it says to me "it can't be done."
I just don't see where it has that. According to that third bullet, it doesn't even check for a bonus attack header specifically. And that's the only bullet that references bonus attacks granted by other cards. I'm going to try to email FFG on it. If nothing else the half dozen or so guys around here who have played epic together, with all our grognardy years of gaming experience collectively, read something different. So for us it could have been more clear. I'll give it another thinking in the mean time though I guess.