He Calls it Thinking and Dupes

By Staton, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

OK, can I cancel the viper discarding a duplicate with He Calls it Thinking since he's immune to events?

Staton said:

OK, can I cancel the viper discarding a duplicate with He Calls it Thinking since he's immune to events?

No, the FAQ says that the duplicates make the character gain the text. So Viper would be immune to cancel since he is immune to events.

(4.2) Duplicates

Using a duplicate to save a character from
being killed or discarded is considered to be
a gained triggered "Response:" action. Thus,
it is treated as a triggered effect and may be
canceled, but because it is gained (and therefore
an ability of the card attempting to use
the response), a character who is "immune
to triggered effects" can be saved by using a
duplicate, as a card cannot be immune to its
own abilities.

I just want to clarify something that follows from Rozy's answer that I had not considered before. Do all character abilities count as being "part of the character" in terms of immunity, or put another way does immunity extend to a character's abilities? So as with the viper, if a character is immune to events its ability can not be canceled by the event (to me an ability being resolved seems like a different entity from a character but maybe the game does not make this distinction)?

schrecklich said:

So as with the viper, if a character is immune to events its ability can not be canceled by the event (to me an ability being resolved seems like a different entity from a character but maybe the game does not make this distinction)?

Yes. A character ability of an immune character cannot be canceled by something that character is immune to. Triggering the ability is considered to be part of the character - and therefore covered by immunity.

I understand that it seems like a different entity from the character, but that is the ruling.

Can "He Calls it Thinking" cancel "Anyphase"? Also, can it cancel cards that come out of shadows with a "Response" or "Anyphase"?

No, this event can cancel only " Response" triggered effects. So no anyphase. If a card that comes out of the shadows has a response to trigger (for example Qyburn or King's Landing Assassin) you can cancel it.

Ok so I have a question about this.

Again the red viper and his dupes: if I have in play Frozen Moat ( Challenges : Kneel Frozen Moat to choose 1 attacking character. Until the end of the challenge, treat that character as if its printed text box were blank) do I blank the ability to save the viper by discarding the dupes, too? I think yes, because if the dupe gives the character the ability in his text I blank not only the "normal text", but the "added text" too.

And if I understood right Frozen Moat blanks the traits of a character, right? But not the crests, because those are not part of the text box, right?

If you use Frozen Moat you blank the printed text but not the gained abilities. This means the Duplicate would still work and it would still have icons and crest. And yes, it erases the Traits too.

ktom said:

schrecklich said:

So as with the viper, if a character is immune to events its ability can not be canceled by the event (to me an ability being resolved seems like a different entity from a character but maybe the game does not make this distinction)?

Yes. A character ability of an immune character cannot be canceled by something that character is immune to. Triggering the ability is considered to be part of the character - and therefore covered by immunity.

I understand that it seems like a different entity from the character, but that is the ruling.

(3.19) Scope of Immunity
Immunity only protects a card itself. Peripheral
entities attached to or associated with a
card, such as attachments, duplicates, power
counters, gold tokens on the immune card,
and also including triggered effects originating
from the immune card, can still be affected by
cards of the type to which that card is immune,
as long as the affecting cards do not target the
immune card.
maybe we can cancel viper' save with HCIT

Yes, you can cancel any save by duplicate with HCiT, including on a character immune to events (as the passage you quoted shows, abilities are not covered by immunity on the card they are on).

Wow, this was a really old thread with an obsolete ruling.

Yeah, this is a 2-year-old thread vs. a 1-year-old FAQ entry. Proof that things can change.