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Initial thoughts on Tie Heavy Cardia Academy Cadet (Craig Academy Cadet)

Incoherent not fully thought through notes based on exactly 1 highly questionable proxy game for why Craig is cool! (Hyperspace Only Context as usual)

• Durability
  • Biggest problem for this dude is getting initiative killed after investing maybe 10+ pts of upgrades
  • Craig can mitigate this though thanks to:
    • 8 HP + 1 Agility + Re-Enforce
    • Near Wookie Levels of Durability which I have never heard any complain about defense wise
    • Vulnerable to crits...but still nice and tanky
    • This is not a Tie Reaper or Kimogilia. Those cant Re-Enforce.
  • What you do with the rest of your list while your opponent deals with Craig(s) is pretty key
  • Probably going to think very carefully about not bringing any config and just Synched to keep the cost down given init kill risks
  • Either way nicely durable ship that should be able to muscle through at least the first rd of combat with a Re-Enforce or Range Control
  • All I will probably ask of Craig is that he survive at least the round 1 engage, after that is gravy.
    
• Medium Base
  • Board Control is excellent and its a Good Blocker
  • 4 Speed and 3 Speed maneuvers are fast on a med base
  • Actually decent flankers as a result, makes it a little harder to slow roll though...
  • Might get in the way of your own list a fair amount which is neat to play around.
    
• Dial
  • Solid even without the dial config.
  • 2 Hard Turns, lots of white in general.
  • Blue Maneuvers are ok base with 1 forward + 2s
  • White 1 banks mean you will bonk alot when trying to clear stress and shoot things in front of you
  • 4 forward! 3 Talons.
  • 1 forward and 1 banks = When in doubt just do those
  • Red 3 turns and Red 1 hard turns are good for blocking, probably wont be used much but when the do itll be to get a key shot or block
  • The Turn After the turn you rotate to rear arc can be a little weird but banks or talons help there.
    
• Actions
  • White Re-Enforce is excellent and critical to why this ship works probably
  • Red Barrel Roll to block better and adjust approach is good
  • Native access to Target Lock is big and with Config this will probably be taking Locks often once in Range, opening up Talons + Locks if saved.
  • Rotate + Calc linked is good for the rotate to rear arc pew pew rounds or the reverse when circling back around
    
• Magic Assisted Dial
  • 
    • Probably cheaper of the configs
    • White Barrel Roll + More ways to clear stress
    • Adds calc to natively enable Synched, though denying mods vs have a focus requires thonk
      
• Magic Assisted Mods
  • 
    • Spend Focus on Defense then Calc Calc
    • Or just take Lock Action and Pop Pop
    • Bonk and Mod anyway
    • Conflicts with Craigs need to re-enforce sometimes
    • Once things get in close your opponent can say "no" from R1 😢
      
• Synch Canon
  • 
    • With this thing Craig has B-Wing energy on offense.
    • Makes the Tie Heavy/Brute feel like a totally different and chonky threatening ship
    • These things are Bruisers! Brute Bruisers. Thats cool.
    • This card completely changes hype level for this ship.
    • Prorbably opportunity to downgrade this to Ion or AB to save on points further
      
• Engagement Stuff:
  • 1st Engage:
    • Synched Magic Assisted Mods:
      • Slow roll to the R3 engage ideally, focus, defend spend focus, calc calc pew pew deny range bonus.
      • If in lock range, lock instead and Lock Calc Calc.
    • Synched Magic Assisted Dial:
      • Still slow roll to R3, focus or calc pew pew pew
      • Guess focus alot more but thats still pretty good and normal
  • 2nd Engage:
    • Drift to R1-R2 or Bonk. If Bonk and Magic Assisted with things at R2-3 Calc Calc for Offense
    • Either way 3 dice shots, might get init killed here but thats fine the rest of your list exists
    • If someone takes 2 rounds to kill Craig thats probably a win depending on pts
  • 3rd Engage:
    • If still alive 2 hard turn or 3-4 speed move to clear things and set up rear arc + calc shot
    • Or just hang out and Bonk again.
    • Sometimes bank away from combat so you can set up a 2 hard back in at wherever things are for another shot
    • Also totally ok to Talon here if it will set up a couple more shots from a lane, no big deal.
  • 4th Engage:
    • Congrats Craig! You made it somehow?
    • If you taking 3-4 shots with a Craig you are probably getting ridiculously good value
    • Or your opponent just ignored him I guess
      
• Speculation Stuff:
  • I have no idea on points....
  • If i1 is 33 pts base + 6 pts for Synched + 4 pts for Magic Mods Config = 43 pts
  • That would allow Vader FCS + Duchess + Craig + Craig which is kinda neat and all that I have tried so far
  • If things get a little expensive fall back plan is just Synched or downgrading the Magic Mods Config to the Magic Dial Config.
  • If the Synched + Mod Config ends up at like 40.....some really interesting lists would open up.
  • Running one of the named Brutes with a talent + synched + config also seems pretty good as a standalone element of a 4-5 ship list.
  • Intimidation is probably the first talent I would consider on one of the i3 or i4 pilots.
  • Overall I am hyped to have a chonky B-Wing style ship in Empire. With enough upgrades it has Ten Numb or Braylen Offense Energy.
  • 

16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

• I have no idea on points....
• If i1 is 33 pts base + 6 pts for Synched + 4 pts for Magic Mods Config = 43 pts

I'm guessing 34 base (artificially high to prevent 6, due to board space issues), 0 point configs (to justify a high base price), and 7 point Synced, for 41 point PewPewCraigs aka SLC Punks.

19 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Medium Base

• Board Control is excellent and its a Good Blocker
• 4 Speed and 3 Speed maneuvers are fast on a med base

I keep being tempted by running a pair of no-cannon Maneuver-Assist Craigs as blockers/bullet sponges, plus a pair of Aces. Medium base for space control, approach with Reinforce to make them a quagmire. Focus or Roll/Calc or Rotate/Calc once in the stew. Something like 34 points for a QuagmireCraig aka CraigMire aka Swamp Monster.

10 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I keep being tempted by running a pair of no-cannon Maneuver-Assist Craigs as blockers/bullet sponges, plus a pair of Aces.

I think if your gonna run 2 Ace + 2 Craigs then your really going to want the Craigs to at least have Synched. Reminds me alot of the Luke Wedge + BB list I used to run/enjoy. Maybe AB is enough but itd be a compromise not a starting point. If your running just one i3 or i4 Craig like Rampage or whatever I would start to seriously consider Intimidation + Synched and it should fit into a 4 ship list like Vader + 5th + 7th + Thing or whatever.

As usual....IDOTP and the only thing my brain can process is Hyperspace. My brain is not big enough for Extended. Biggest fear is that at 43 with the toys you will always be better off just running 5th or 7th instead of 1 or 2 Craigs. Which is broadly a problem for everything because 🟪 is so **** cheap for absolutely no reason. Loops back to the idea of just bringing Synched and nothing else depending on points so its like 38 vs 43 as the Thonk point. Instead of 43 vs 43 🤔 😢 😡

Should probably wait for points before getting worked up over that though.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think if your gonna run 2 Ace + 2 Craigs then your really going to want the Craigs to at least have Synched. Reminds me alot of the Luke Wedge + BB list I used to run/enjoy. Maybe AB is enough but itd be a a compromise not a starting point. If your running just one i3 or i4 Craig like Rampage or whatever I would start to seriously consider Intimidation + Synched and it should fit into a 4 ship list like Vader + 5th + 7th + Thing or whatever.

As usual....IDOTP and the only thing my brain can process is Hyperspace. I am not smart enough for Extended. Biggest fear is that at 43 with the toys you will always be better off just running 5th or 7th instead of 1 or 2 Craigs. Which is broadly a problem for everything because 🟪 is so **** cheap for absolutely no reason. Loops back to probably just bringing Synched and nothing else depending on points so its like 38 vs 43 as the Thonk point. Instead of 43 vs 43 🤔 😢 😡

Should probably wait for points before getting worked up over that though.

The whole reason I'm thinking no-SLC is to get them as cheap as possible so that I can fly better aces. Can 12-14 points be spent to upgrade to a better ace? Options and points might not really work out, though...

Excellent stuff!

Ok, why Craig?

i don't think I1 can cost more than 30 points... probably 27 like bombers .

consider that a tie bomber cause of his 2 green dices is teorically similarly tanky ... if not more tanky

Not liking this craig garbage. I suggest another brute:

50 minutes ago, Manolox said:

i don't think I1 can cost more than 30 points... probably 27 like bombers .

consider that a tie bomber cause of his 2 green dices is teorically similarly tanky ... if not more tanky

TIE/sf also has roughly the same defensive statline as the TIE bomber, and is also a 2-red ship, but is 32 points. Turrets make a pretty big difference.

Question: do you think the configs will have points costs?

7 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

That would allow Vader FCS + Duchess + Craig + Craig which is kinda neat and all that I have tried so far

Thinking about this:

Is it better than Vader FCS + Duchess + Pure Sabacc + Countdown? Both the I4 strikers are 43 points.

1 minute ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Not liking this craig garbage. I suggest another brute:

"I'm on the Brute Squad."

"You *are* the Brute Squad."

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

"I'm on the Brute Squad."

"You *are* the Brute Squad."

“Are there rocks ahead?”

“if there are, we’ll all be dead!”

No more rhymes! I mean it!

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

No more rhymes! I mean it!

Anybody want a peanut?

Came for the game strategy discussion; stayed for the Princess Bride references. Faith in humanity: restored.

@Boom Owl will u do something this for the HMP and the Laat/i?? I would reallg love to see that.

2 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

@Boom Owl will u do something this for the HMP and the Laat/i?? I would reallg love to see that.

remember though this is all highly questionable content.

@Boom Owl,

Wait a sec.....

Why does the Brute have a white reinforce with NO SHIELDS?!?

I'm so confused...

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

All I will probably ask of Craig is that he survive at least the round 1 engage, after that is gravy

Reinforce and pray.

I love it.

Turn brain off and charge.

That's a win for Empire! No fancy flanking or whatever.

Line up and joust with a token....

(Oh, wait.... What if they jam off Craig's Reinforce..... Snap.)

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

@Boom Owl,

Wait a sec.....

Why does the Brute have a white reinforce with NO SHIELDS?!?

I'm so confused...

No shields, all steely balls.

1 hour ago, Npmartian said:

No shields, all steely balls.

5 hours ago, Spinland said:

Came for the game strategy discussion; stayed for the Princess Bride references. Faith in humanity: restored.

"ASUWSH" has been my car tag for about 15 years.

A fun (and reasonably effective ) FO build for me has been three Zeta Squadron Survivors and four Zeta Squadron Pilots.

No tricks or gimmicks, just seven two dice attacks at 34 health.

I don't know whether a similar list for the Empire will be as effective, but I'm thinking three TIE Heavies with four TIE fighters.

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

TIE/sf also has roughly the same defensive statline as the TIE bomber, and is also a 2-red ship, but is 32 points. Turrets make a pretty big difference.

ye.... tie sf has 1 front arc and a turret for the back while the brute has only 1 turret.

another reason why i think it will cost between 27 and 30 points is alpha class starwing... look at statline .... can't cost the same.

also the medium base suggest something : it will be harder to not beeing shot compared to a small base

these are the reasons to me the brute can't be too expensive.

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Question: do you think the configs will have points costs?

to me absolutely.... they increase too much she ship's quality.

maybe manouver assist will be 2-3 points.

targeting assist is more difficult to speculate because it changes a lot his value depending on what upgrade is equipped, in particular if you have 2 or 3 red dices.

Anyway supposing it will be costed for a 3 red dice cannon it could cost easely between 6 and 8 piints

13 hours ago, Manolox said:

[point cost on configs]

to me absolutely.... they increase too much she ship's quality.

maybe manouver assist will be 2-3 points.

targeting assist is more difficult to speculate because it changes a lot his value depending on what upgrade is equipped, in particular if you have 2 or 3 red dices.

Anyway supposing it will be costed for a 3 red dice cannon it could cost easely between 6 and 8 piints

See, I think they'll cost 0 (or at least Maneuver will), to keep the ship price high.

27 on these, 7 per list, seems like it could easily be a nightmare. Almost impossible to defeat in 75 minutes, that'd be 56 hull, potentially with Reinforce. Only gaining 14 points from halving a Brute would make winning a timed game almost impossible. 6 Heavies, at 48 health, particularly being a medium-base which really chokes out a lot of bard space, almost seems like that might even be an issue, and that'd be from 29-33 points per Brute.

Maneuver Assist is Expert Handling (which costs 3 points on a Medium Base), plus something kinda like Nien Nunb or R4 Astromech (let's say 2 points) plus a red linked Calculate (there's no easy comparison... K-2SO is a lot more flexible so isn't a good example, and nothing else really trades stress for calc). To buy the component parts of the config, you'd be looking at maybe as much as 7 points. Add that to the 27, and you'd have 34, which is the five-per-list breakpoint.

I just think FFG isn't going to want more than 5 Brutes on the table, at least not at first, and the only real way to justify a cost that high is free configs.

14 hours ago, Manolox said:

another reason why i think it will cost between 27 and 30 points is alpha class starwing... look at statline .... can't cost the same.

Not as tanky when focused, tankier when reinforced, but gaining that turret and actual flip moves means you'll have a lot better time-on-target. SLAM and no flip-moves makes it pretty hard for a gunboat to keep guns on for a long time, and their bug-out and returns can take a while, so it's hard for them to use their offense, even if they do have strong health.

I just tested Lyttan Dree and Rampage. My initial impressions can be summarized as such:

Genuinely good ship. Hopefully it is not subjected to aggressively to the Drea, Howl, and Sinker sin tax.

Rampage also super neat.

If you are an Imperial Player or just a general fan of X-Wing and are not hyped for the Tie Brute, you probably should be hyped.

22 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Wait a sec.....

Why does the Brute have a white reinforce with NO SHIELDS?!?

I'm so confused...

They have Angled Deflectors build in. It had 1 shield, but then they hard baked the upgrade in, giving 0 shields.

11 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

They have Angled Deflectors build in. It had 1 shield, but then they hard baked the upgrade in, giving 0 shields.

The cool part is you can just depend on board position for their defense to. If you have to re-enforce you can and will but its not necessary all the time. The more you set, earn, and punish a lane or flank the more likely you will be to drag these things to the mid game to keep tossing 3 dice shots. True for anything really but especially feels relevant to these since they arent adjusting much to board states.