With Clones and Droids having their own (quite strong) faction abilities, what do you believe would be some potential faction abilities for Rebels and Imperials?

I don't play much Imps, so idk about them but some different ideas for Rebels that take into consideration their whole "Take cover/gurrilla warfare" idea:

- At the start of the activation phase, each Rebel unit in base contact with a piece of terrain gains 1 dodge token

Or

- When a Rebel unit performs a move action, if their final position is in base contact with a terrain piece, gain 1 dodge token

Or

- When a Rebel unit performs an attack, 2 friendly units at range 1 may gain a dodge token

Just some different ideas to give Rebels a bit more surviveability, and put Nimble on the board as a decent keyword. Option 3 kinda makes the generic 3-pip useless, but it kinda was in the first place...

-When within x range of a commander, X imperial units may gain one aim token

?

I like the idea a lot, more faction individualism is welcome, but I think we'd have to redo points if that were to happen.

I think action economy could be improved (Rebel dodges and Imp aims seems to make sense) without needing a point adjustment. CIS and GAR essentially have action economy and activation control at the core of their identities and that’s not the case for GCW factions. Giving them something in those areas would bring balance.

Empire's faction ability should be based around suppression, both making enemy units pay for having suppression, and gaining benefits from their own units being suppressed. It could just be something as simple as forcing both players to put 1 suppression token on X units during each command phase. And then Empire would have keywords to take advantage of both enemy and friendly units having suppression tokens on them.

Rebel's faction ability to should based around the concept of whatever kills us makes us stronger. the faction should get bonuses when its units die and the surviving units should get stronger. Like whenever a rebel unit gets killed, you get a desperation token, at the beginning of your command phase you can spend desperation tokens to put that many aim or dodge tokens on your units.

I also think Empire and Rebels should be able to spend surge tokens for half-token effects. Because its harder for Empire and Rebels to use surge tokens than CIS (because CIS neither surges on offense or defense so they get more opportunities to use surge tokens) or GAR (which can share unspent surge tokens whenever they want).

Rebels should be able to spend a surge token to gain a half-dodge where they roll a red defense die and on a block result they dodge a hit. Because surge tokens are useless for most rebel units on defense since they innately surge on defense.

Similarly imperials should be able to spend a surge token to gain a half-aim effect. Spending a surge token could give them a new keyword like subjugate X that lets them reroll attack dice for each suppression token on the defender, upto a max of X. That makes surge tokens more useful for imperial units that already have offensive surge.

The biggest issue with doing a change like this, how do you implement it?

1) a blanket implementation all empire and rebels gain this ability then that will both make those factions op and be unfair to the cis and gar factions who only some of their units get their ability.
2) you only give it to some of their units and then have to release a codex style change for those factions that you will then either have to have at the table and/or both players have to memorize.

3) you do a complete overhaul of the whole game and have a legion 2.0 release.

Unfortunately anyone of these three are more likely to kill the game at this point than to help it.

Neither faction actually has a faction ability. They are just the result of Trooper types, which other factions could (and in the case of Droid Troopers, do) have access to. Those factions also have troopers not of those types as well. They don't need their own Trooper type.

Theyre definitely faction abilities because theyre not on the unit cards. Theyre faction rules that apply to all units of a specific type in that faction.

You cant find token sharing anywhere on any clone trooper card.

And you cant find the droid suppression rules anywhere on any droid card.

Unless you actually look in the rulebook you would never even know those rules exist.

2 minutes ago, Shadowhawk252 said:

The biggest issue with doing a change like this, how do you implement it?

1) a blanket implementation all empire and rebels gain this ability then that will both make those factions op and be unfair to the cis and gar factions who only some of their units get their ability.
2) you only give it to some of their units and then have to release a codex style change for those factions that you will then either have to have at the table and/or both players have to memorize.

3) you do a complete overhaul of the whole game and have a legion 2.0 release.

Unfortunately anyone of these three are more likely to kill the game at this point than to help it.

I think it’s a pretty simple fix, though it would require thought. For instance, since Rebels are very character focused, maybe their ability could apply to unique units. Perhaps have Imp apply to vehicles.

Keep in mind that droid troopers and clone troopers are simply Trooper types, so I think you could do this for the other units. It takes careful wording but I think it can be done without a 2.0 or errata to every card.

it is a simple fix. just add it to the game.

its not like the game is balanced now anyway.

I would also note that almost every Rebel and Imperial unit have native surges which is part of their identity. In particular Rebel Trooper surge to defense and Stormtrooper surge to hit.

5 minutes ago, smickletz said:

I would also note that almost every Rebel and Imperial unit have native surges which is part of their identity. In particular Rebel Trooper surge to defense and Stormtrooper surge to hit.

Unfortunately that also makes it harder to use surge tokens.

Native surge isn't really an identity trait anyways, it's just a way to have more steps on the defense/attack scale other than 3/2 kinds of dice. It's not even particularly better than having surge tokens availible, which the new armies usually do, cause you usually only get 0-3 surges per roll, on average.

New command upgrade cards such as..

Rebel Tactics 10 pt
Rebel only
All core and special forcres trooper units gain
agile 1
coordinate: maneuver ( friendly trooper units at range 1 may spend this units dodge tokens)
You may only equip 1 tactics upgrade when building an army.

I have been thinking about reactive dodge actions as a thing. Could work well for a rebel faction ability.

If an un-activated unit is under fire, you can choose to use a dodge action with that unit, using up one of their actions, giving them only one action when you actually activate them. As it is still an action, the unit could only do this once per turn, and if they are surpressed, they would not get to do any actions when they activate.
This could give units, especially nimble ones, some more longevity, and prevents dodge tokens going unused.

2 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Neither faction actually has a faction ability. They are just the result of Trooper types, which other factions could (and in the case of Droid Troopers, do) have access to. Those factions also have troopers not of those types as well. They don't need their own Trooper type.

This^

The civil war era factions are just regular people with differing political views. The Clone Wars era factions are either war droids or mass produced clone armies bred for war and trained from birth. It makes sense that the clone wars era factions have special trooper types and the others dont.

I think rather than trying to shoehorn in two new trooper types it would be better to just address some of the less fun parts of GAR token sharing (limiting overwatch and standby sharing).

I think CIS are fine, especially as more and more units come out that lack coordinate. It gets harder to achieve perfect activation control and makes it easier for an enemy to break your order chain.

3 hours ago, Khobai said:

Theyre definitely faction abilities because theyre not on the unit cards. Theyre faction rules that apply to all units of a specific type in that faction.

You cant find token sharing anywhere on any clone trooper card.

And you cant find the droid suppression rules anywhere on any droid card.

Unless you actually look in the rulebook you would never even know those rules exist.

Having to look in the rulebook has nothing to do with whether or not they are faction abilities, and those rules apply to those trooper types in ANY faction. You have to look up the rules for a Droid Trooper or clone Trooper just like you have to look them up for a Ground Vehicle or Emplacement Trooper. Just because there isn't any rules reminder text on the card does not mean it's a faction ability, and that idea is ludicrous. Chewbacca's card doesn't have any reminder text for Guardian. Does that mean it's a faction ability?

Rebs and Imps weren't made with 'faction wide' abilities in mind. They don't pay extra points for those things. They aren't internally balanced with those abilities in mind.

Clone token sharing doesn't apply to the whole faction.

Droid order sharing doesn't apply to the whole faction.
Droid suppression ignoring doesn't apply to the whole faction.

...

I think faction wide abilities would be cool, and add flavour to each faction.

But it would fundamentally require a rebalance of the whole game at this point.

58 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

This^

The civil war era factions are just regular people with differing political views.

That's an extremely simplistic take. The Imperials are "just regular people" that are part of a galaxy-wide fascist warmachine that has rigid training and doctrines and standardized equipment. The Rebels are "just regular people" who're part of a ragtag force that exemplifies asymmetrical warfare of all kinds from organised pseudomilitary civil warfare to "THEY'RE IN THE TREES!!!" using whatever gear they can beg, salvage, or steal. There's sufficient thematic distinctiveness there to justify some kind of gameplay mechanic, especially since it's clear having such mechanics is a solid advantage for the CW era factions.

14 minutes ago, Yodhrin said:

having such mechanics is a solid advantage for the CW era factions

I agree, and I think @KommanderKeldoth Addresses this concern by suggesting a nerf to the CloneTrooper token sharing. I do think each faction in the game has good identity and distinct play styles. But it is true that, while many of us refer to “faction abilities”, no such thing exists. But GAR being the only faction with Clone Troopers available makes it feel that way and does, in fact, give them a distinct advantage. Coordinate, fire support, and droid troopers are not faction specific.

Now introduce Ewoks to the Rebels and now we can start adding in some specialized mechanics 🙂

3 hours ago, Xclbr1 said:

Native surge isn't really an identity trait anyways

I would argue that at the game’s release, the difference in surges and the emphasis on aims vs. dodges is what gave the GCW factions their identities.

CIS and GAR factions lack surges and instead focus on Trooper types which does feel more thematic, but still has game mechanics at the core.

1 hour ago, smickletz said:

I would argue that at the game’s release, the difference in surges and the emphasis on aims vs. dodges is what gave the GCW factions their identities.

CIS and GAR factions lack surges and instead focus on Trooper types which does feel more thematic, but still has game mechanics at the core.

Yeah, and it also makes sense that the GCW factions arent as different from each other since, once again, they are mostly just regular soldiers wearing different gear.

6 hours ago, smickletz said:

I would also note that almost every Rebel and Imperial unit have native surges which is part of their identity. In particular Rebel Trooper surge to defense and Stormtrooper surge to hit.

I wouldn't say that's part of their identity, that's simply a way of getting a larger variety of dice out of the 3/2 types of attack/defense dice Legion uses.

having surge isnt always an advantage over not having surge either.

for example a white defense die with surge is way worse than a red defense die without surge. especially since the red defense die without surge can use surge tokens.

33 minutes ago, Khobai said:

having surge isnt always an advantage over not having surge either.

for example a white defense die with surge is way worse than a red defense die without surge. especially since the red defense die without surge can use surge tokens.

A black defence die would be good to help bridge this.

2 blocks, 1 surge.

im not sure a black defense die is needed. because the problem with adding a black die is you still have to roll surge results to spend surge tokens.

there needs to be new ways to spend surge tokens without rolling surges

like if empire could spend a surge token as a half-aim token (imperials can spend a surge token to reroll 1 attack die)

or if rebels could spend a surge token as a half-dodge token (rebels can spend a surge token to roll a red defense die and if they get a block result they can dodge 1 hit)

otherwise surge tokens will never be as good for rebels and empire as they are for CIS and GAR.