Hello guys,

I need a clarification on the timing of the damage reduction granted by the objective; the wording say "before you suffer damage", but I need to know if it happen before or after the Brace effect is applied.

Thanks!!

4 hours ago, Kieran Rexer said:

Hello guys,

I need a clarification on the timing of the damage reduction granted by the objective; the wording say "before you suffer damage", but I need to know if it happen before or after the Brace effect is applied.

Thanks!!

Just like EST, it's all the same step so you choose the order.

3 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

Just like EST, it's all the same step so you choose the order.

Is there any official clarification that says that? By reading the rules, the brace takes place "When damage is totaled" which is before "before you suffer damage", so you couldn't choose, the brace takes place first and then the "before you suffer damage" effect.

1 hour ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Is there any official clarification that says that? By reading the rules, the brace takes place "When damage is totaled" which is before "before you suffer damage", so you couldn't choose, the brace takes place first and then the "before you suffer damage" effect.

Just the rules. Page 2, Resolve Damage.
Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens. <<At this point, you spend the brace, but it doesn't have an effect until the next step.>>
Resolve Damage: The attacker can resolve one of its critical effects. Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. <<This is when Brace and EST take effect, as it is the only step where damage is counted.>>

6 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

Just the rules. Page 2, Resolve Damage.
Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens. <<At this point, you spend the brace, but it doesn't have an effect until the next step.>>
Resolve Damage: The attacker can resolve one of its critical effects. Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. <<This is when Brace and EST take effect, as it is the only step where damage is counted.>>

I disagree. On page 4 of the rules, the Brace rules say this: When damage is totaled during the “Resolve
Damage” step, the total is reduced to half, rounded up.

So the brace triggers "when damage is totaled" which, per the rule you quoted is a step before the step of suffering damage.

1 minute ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I disagree. On page 4 of the rules, the Brace rules say this: When damage is totaled during the “Resolve
Damage” step, the total is reduced to half, rounded up.

So the brace triggers "when damage is totaled" which, per the rule you quoted is a step before the step of suffering damage.

Nope, that's the same step. The step before suffering damage is spending defense tokens.

5 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

Nope, that's the same step. The step before suffering damage is spending defense tokens.

I didn't explain myself correctly, I didn't mean actual steps of the attack, I meant the sub-steps. The step 5 goes like this:

1-resolve 1 critical effect

2-total the damage (here is when brace triggers)

3-suffer damage (an effect that happens "before suffer damage" has to happen right before this, which is after the brace triggered)

3 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I didn't explain myself correctly, I didn't mean actual steps of the attack, I meant the sub-steps. The step 5 goes like this:

1-resolve 1 critical effect

2-total the damage (here is when brace triggers)

3-suffer damage (an effect that happens "before suffer damage" has to happen right before this, which is after the brace triggered)

Those aren't sub-steps, but points of the actual step. They're not set do-this-in-this-order. Notice how they're not numbered. They're just points that take place within the suffer damage step.

1 minute ago, Formynder4 said:

Those aren't sub-steps, but points of the actual step. They're not set do this in order. Notice how they're not numbered. They're just points that take place within the suffer damage step.

But you have to do those in order. If you don't total the damage then how do you know how many damage the defender will suffer? So first you total the damage and THEN the defender suffers it. They have different timing.

You guys are pretty close. let me see if this helps.

As mentioned, you can't "suffer" damage, until you know what the " total" damage is. The timing of the objective is actually more akin to Gallent Haven than EST, EST is really its own animal and I'll explain later why.

In this instance, you must know how much damage there is to "suffer", before you can reduce it per the objective.

You must first "total" damage before you know how much to reduce it with Brace. Once you know the total, then reduce it by 1/2 with Braces effect.
Now you know what the new "Total" damage is after Brace. Now you know the damage to "suffer", but before you "suffer" that damage, you further reduce it by 1 due to the objective.
(This is why Jan Ors / GH is powerful. Jan Braces the damage, then GH reduces it further)

Back to EST, why is EST its own animal? Because of the wording contained within the card (either intended or not).

Card Text:

"While defending, during the Spend Defense Tokens step, when you spend a Redirect defense token, you may reduce the total damage from the attack by 1 instead of resolving that token's effect."

In that text, it states that you can reduce "total" damage, but doesn't mention anything about "suffering". Which is why it shares the same timing window as Brace.
Brace and EST apply in the "Total" damage step, not the "before suffer" step, which takes place afterwards.
Why you would ever want to apply EST's effect before Brace though. Don't do that, it doesn't help you.

Hope this clears up any confusion.