Cool post. I've had fun with all of these, and use about half of them regularly, but I don't do competitive.

Snowtroopers have made a comeback for me with Gideon Hask

Being able to pop out of terrain, do 2 red and 5 white at range 3, then pop back into terrain can be pretty irritating for the opponent

I'm a droideka apologist.

I fully acknowledge their drawbacks, cost being chief among them.

But they're one of the coolest things in the prequels, and they've won me multiple games by either drawing fire off my fragile roger-bots, or suppressing (usually imperials) off the board. My record was 3 squads panicked off the table in one game.

It saddens me that I have better units to choose from now.

I just played a few games with a full squad of Scout Troopers with the Sonic Charge Saboteur and I think I threw a total of 2 charges over 2 games but 10 black dice is nothing to be sneezed at. If they get in close beware. Obviously Duck and Cover is a big help but I threw Impact Grenades on them in the second game and they helped wreck a tank in a Hostage Exchange.

With Jedi/Sith being more numerous and overall better in the prequel factions (especially CIS for whatever reason) I think we might see a resurgence in IRG with electrostaff since they are a cheap, but effective counter to them.

17 hours ago, Sekac said:

I'm a droideka apologist.

u and me both its y I try to fit the 3 squad that I have into every CIS list I make. Admittedly it doesnt work every time. But. It sure is fun when I can bring all 3

The biggest problem I have with drodekas is that they cant take objectives.

Im of the opinion that all of the small vehicles should be able to capture objectives.

Pathfinders may be a bit weak, but people are definitely sleeping on Jyn. Play her right and she's a very versatile commander choice

I have a feeling that people are going to sleep on Imperial Special Forces. Not Inferno Squad specifically, just the standard Special Forces unit.

I may be wrong once they really hit the board, but it seems like the darling of the new expansion has been Inferno Squad (specifically Hask) and how they can apply to corps units. Honestly, the Special Forces are an E-11D away from just being cheaper Deathtroopers that can Infiltrate and improve their results with aims rather than just reroll dice. I would not be shocked to see them being used in some interesting (and potentially punishing) forward pushes in turn one or two to keep an opponent on the back heel.

Again, once they really hit the board and people start trying them out, maybe I'll be wrong, but I have a feeling they'll get overshadowed by Hask and his usage with Snowtroopers.

2 hours ago, evo454 said:

I have a feeling that people are going to sleep on Imperial Special Forces. Not Inferno Squad specifically, just the standard Special Forces unit.

I may be wrong once they really hit the board, but it seems like the darling of the new expansion has been Inferno Squad (specifically Hask) and how they can apply to corps units. Honestly, the Special Forces are an E-11D away from just being cheaper Deathtroopers that can Infiltrate and improve their results with aims rather than just reroll dice. I would not be shocked to see them being used in some interesting (and potentially punishing) forward pushes in turn one or two to keep an opponent on the back heel.

Again, once they really hit the board and people start trying them out, maybe I'll be wrong, but I have a feeling they'll get overshadowed by Hask and his usage with Snowtroopers.

I was initially pretty down on ISF. They have a bit of an optics problem in that they share a lot of similarities to Death Troopers, but are definitely not as oppressively strong. However, they are significantly cheaper. 21 points (with the T-21 vs DTs with the "standard" of DLT-19D and Config) is nothing to sneeze at. More than 2 DTs in a list is pretty limiting on points, but I can easily fit 3 ISF in a similar list.

2 hours ago, evo454 said:

I have a feeling that people are going to sleep on Imperial Special Forces. Not Inferno Squad specifically, just the standard Special Forces unit.

I may be wrong once they really hit the board, but it seems like the darling of the new expansion has been Inferno Squad (specifically Hask) and how they can apply to corps units. Honestly, the Special Forces are an E-11D away from just being cheaper Deathtroopers that can Infiltrate and improve their results with aims rather than just reroll dice. I would not be shocked to see them being used in some interesting (and potentially punishing) forward pushes in turn one or two to keep an opponent on the back heel.

Again, once they really hit the board and people start trying them out, maybe I'll be wrong, but I have a feeling they'll get overshadowed by Hask and his usage with Snowtroopers.

I used 1 squad this weekend with Iden and 2 squads of Stoemtroopers with the T21 and specialist, my opponents kept complaining about all the crits lol

3 hours ago, Lochlan said:

I was initially pretty down on ISF. They have a bit of an optics problem in that they share a lot of similarities to Death Troopers, but are definitely not as oppressively strong. However, they are significantly cheaper. 21 points (with the T-21 vs DTs with the "standard" of DLT-19D and Config) is nothing to sneeze at. More than 2 DTs in a list is pretty limiting on points, but I can easily fit 3 ISF in a similar list.

You dont have to run DTs as 118 point units though. A 110 point deathtrooper unit without config is still way better than a 97 point ISF unit.

You can run three 110 point units of deathtroopers for 330 points vs three units of ISF for 291 points. A 39 point difference isnt very significant when you consider the deathtroopers are a full 50% more survivable in addition to all their offensive advantages. DTs are still always the better choice unless for some reason you absolutely need infiltrate...

Im still very disappointed by ISF units. I feel they struggle to find a role within the army that isnt supplanted by deathtrooper . I wish they were different from deathtroopers in more ways and good at more things deathtroopers arnt good at. But sadly that wasnt the case.

I dont think ISF are an underappreciated unit at all. I think theyre just another terrible unit in a string of terrible releases that empire keeps getting.

But as I mentioned before Gideon Hask and Del Meeko work great in corps units. So its not all bad.

Quote

Honestly, the Special Forces are an E-11D away from just being cheaper Deathtroopers

The problem is when you compare the 97 point ISF unit to the 110 point Deathtrooper unit.

The deathtroopers are 50% more survivable and have better offense at all ranges. And theyre harder to suppress. For only 13 points more.

Im not inclined to give all that up just for Infiltrate and a surge token I probably wont even be able to use.

ISF are an overcosted unit. Theyre overcosted by at least 10 points. Theyre essentially just shoretroopers with surge to hit and infiltrate. Reliable 1 in practice also isnt as useful as the shoretroopers free aim token. And marksman isnt great without access to a free aim token.

It wouldve made way more sense if the shoretroopers had reliable 1 since they neither surge on offense or defense. And if the ISF got the free aim token which they could use with marksman. Its super backwards.

6 hours ago, Xclbr1 said:

Pathfinders may be a bit weak, but people are definitely sleeping on Jyn. Play her right and she's a very versatile commander choice

I agree shes extremely versatile. She has decent stats and abilities. But I think the main reason shes not more popular is because her command cards range from outright weak (her 3 pip) to downright bizarre (her 1 pip). I really dislike her 1 pip, I have zero desire to charge her into melee with a white saving throw and danger sense sadly only works against ranged attacks not melee attacks. Cassian's command cards are way more applicable to how rebels actually play the game.

If they ever came out with alternate command cards for all the other commanders I do think Jyn could be a sleeper star though.

2 hours ago, Khobai said:

I agree shes extremely versatile. She has decent stats and abilities. But I think the main reason shes not more popular is because her command cards range from outright weak (her 3 pip) to downright bizarre (her 1 pip). I really dislike her 1 pip, I have zero desire to charge her into melee with a white saving throw and danger sense sadly only works against ranged attacks not melee attacks. Cassian's command cards are way more applicable to how rebels actually play the game.

Danger sense works in melee, it's in the RRG.

3 hours ago, Khobai said:

You dont have to run DTs as 118 point units though. A 110 point deathtrooper unit without config is still way better than a 97 point ISF unit.

You can run three 110 point units of deathtroopers for 330 points vs three units of ISF for 291 points. A 39 point difference isnt very significant when you consider the deathtroopers are a full 50% more survivable in addition to all their offensive advantages. DTs are still always the better choice unless for some reason you absolutely need infiltrate...

Im still very disappointed by ISF units. I feel they struggle to find a role within the army that isnt supplanted by deathtrooper . I wish they were different from deathtroopers in more ways and good at more things deathtroopers arnt good at. But sadly that wasnt the case.

I dont think ISF are an underappreciated unit at all. I think theyre just another terrible unit in a string of terrible releases that empire keeps getting.

But as I mentioned before Gideon Hask and Del Meeko work great in corps units. So its not all bad.

The problem is when you compare the 97 point ISF unit to the 110 point Deathtrooper unit.

The deathtroopers are 50% more survivable and have better offense at all ranges. And theyre harder to suppress. For only 13 points more.

Im not inclined to give all that up just for Infiltrate and a surge token I probably wont even be able to use.

ISF are an overcosted unit. Theyre overcosted by at least 10 points. Theyre essentially just shoretroopers with surge to hit and infiltrate. Reliable 1 in practice also isnt as useful as the shoretroopers free aim token. And marksman isnt great without access to a free aim token.

It wouldve made way more sense if the shoretroopers had reliable 1 since they neither surge on offense or defense. And if the ISF got the free aim token which they could use with marksman. Its super backwards.

I agree shes extremely versatile. She has decent stats and abilities. But I think the main reason shes not more popular is because her command cards range from outright weak (her 3 pip) to downright bizarre (her 1 pip). I really dislike her 1 pip, I have zero desire to charge her into melee with a white saving throw and danger sense sadly only works against ranged attacks not melee attacks. Cassian's command cards are way more applicable to how rebels actually play the game.

If they ever came out with alternate command cards for all the other commanders I do think Jyn could be a sleeper star though.

I agree her command cards are pretty crappy.

Snowtroopers may be okay with Hask, i hate that they miss out on the flamer. I hate that they made all the heavies in clan wren and infeeno squad the same cost because they are not all equal in ability.

The rest are too easy to kill and play around. That's why you should keep sleeping.

16 hours ago, Uetur said:

I agree her command cards are pretty crappy.

19 hours ago, Khobai said:

I agree shes extremely versatile. She has decent stats and abilities. But I think the main reason shes not more popular is because her command cards range from outright weak (her 3 pip) to downright bizarre (her 1 pip). I really dislike her 1 pip, I have zero desire to charge her into melee with a white saving throw and danger sense sadly only works against ranged attacks not melee attacks. Cassian's command cards are way more applicable to how rebels actually play the game.

If they ever came out with alternate command cards for all the other commanders I do think Jyn could be a sleeper star though.

Hot dang guys, if you think Jyns command cards are terrible you REALLY are sleeping on her. Her 3-pip is one of the best in the game, allowing up to 3 units to just ignore suppression for a round is a tremendous benefit, especially if your opponent was betting on them panicking. It can hard counter some command cards (Krennic's 3-pip, Vader's 3-pip (if anyone used Vader...)) and can help units get where they need to be even under heavy suppression.

Rebellious got a bit of a buff with Danger Sense being usable in melee, but you have to carefully pick when and where to use it. I've used Jyn to knock down an injured Grievous before, but even if she can't kill the target, she can tie them up from doing more important things, namely interacting with an objective. Not to mention her baton has Suppressive, meaning you get two attacks and therefore two suppression on the target before they even activate. If they fail the rally step, for most units that's often one action down.

Trust Goes Both Ways was probably the worst of the 3 for a while (and for some lists it probably is still not great), but with Cassian and K2 being out there you have the potential to make a 3 character chain of Teamwork where Jyn can produce 6 tokens in one action for them all. That's action economy right there. Even if you don't want to go all in on the Rogue One crew though, Teamwork with Quick Thinking can be a decent combo, especially if Jyn isn't ready to quite in a position to do much else than give out tokens (Or my favorite, sit on that Moisture Vaporator and hit it while generating 4 tokens!)

That said, games can go a lot of ways, and the way Jyn is designed is pretty close to her character. Specifically her speech right before the rebels hit the beaches on Scariff. She's a lot of fun to play, and feels great when you take the chances and they work out, but sometimes the dice are cruel. All part of playing rebels though, in my opinion. Embrace the chaos.

4 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Snowtroopers may be okay with Hask, i hate that they miss out on the flamer. I hate that they made all the heavies in clan wren and infeeno squad the same cost because they are not all equal in ability.

The rest are too easy to kill and play around. That's why you should keep sleeping.

Theyre **** annoying with Hask. Pop out from behind terrain, do 2 red and 5 white, pop back into terrain.

Its not a lot of damage, but its a consistent source of low damage that cant be killed off easily. And if theyre simultaneously scoring on an objective theyre great.

36 minutes ago, Xclbr1 said:

Hot dang guys, if you think Jyns command cards are terrible you REALLY are sleeping on her. Her 3-pip is one of the best in the game, allowing up to 3 units to just ignore suppression for a round is a tremendous benefit, especially if your opponent was betting on them panicking. It can hard counter some command cards (Krennic's 3-pip, Vader's 3-pip (if anyone used Vader...)) and can help units get where they need to be even under heavy suppression.

Rebels dont typically have a problem with suppression though. They get a decent amount of inspire. The card solves a non-existent problem.

Her command cards ARE pretty bad. Thats why Jyn doesnt get used more. Her stats and abilities are great its just the command cards dragging her down.

If she had access to better command cards I have no doubt that she would see more use. Which is why they should release alternate command cards for all commanders like they did with vader and luke.

20 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Rebels dont typically have a problem with suppression though. They get a decent amount of inspire. The card solves a non-existent problem.

If you take Leia, maybe, but she isn't really present in a Jyn list, or at least one I would run. Other than that are people taking expensive officers? Even if you bother with Pathfinders and take Pao, he's only Inspire 1. From experience, suppression CAN be a big problem, and this card HAS saved my *** before.

21 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Her command cards ARE pretty bad. Thats why Jyn doesnt get used more. Her stats and abilities are great its just the command cards dragging her down.

I don't know what to tell you man, idk how you or your opponents are running Jyn but she IS pretty easy to misplay. I did it a whole lot before finding my feet, but I can tell you without a doubt her cards do not suck

27 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Rebels dont typically have a problem with suppression though. They get a decent amount of inspire. The card solves a non-existent problem.

*Laughs in Empire Suppression build*

Its not just Leia. Even Cassian's 3 pip lets his units recover and remove all suppression.

Removing suppression is a common theme for Rebels and hardly limited to Jyn.

If Jyn is so great why doesnt anyone use her? Theres a reason. Her command cards are GOOFY.

And if shes easy to misplay thats all the more reason not to use her when you can just use a commander like Cassian thats easy not to misplay...

I have more of an issue with any of my rebel troops being able to do something whether they are suppressed or not. Rebels rely too much on Luke, Cassian, Sabine, Tauntauns, to do damage, everything else is just gravy or flour with water.

Yep suppression isnt the problem with rebels. The problem with rebels is they die way too fast and cant do enough before they die.

That forces them to crutch on units like AT-RTs and Tauntauns because theyre the only things that dont die IMMEDIATELY.

18 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Yep suppression isnt the problem with rebels. The problem with rebels is they die way too fast and cant do enough before they die.

That forces them to crutch on units like AT-RTs and Tauntauns because theyre the only things that dont die IMMEDIATELY.

Although, with new Critical keyword and 12-16 dice in the pool, AT-RT or any character can get ganked in one-shot at this point in the game.

ugh dont even get me started on GAR

But rebel units are so fragile you dont even need a huge attack pool to kill them. Rebel troopers are almost like more expensive B1s with no real upside. They get nimble but without more ways to generate dodge tokens, nimble doesnt amount to a whole lot. Leia is stretched pretty thin with handing out dodge tokens as is.

I definitely think rebels need a new macro game mechanic that generates dodge tokens for them. And lets them spend surge tokens as half-dodges (roll a red defensive die and on a block the attack is dodged).

That might even make Jyn more appealing if I dont feel like I always have to take Leia.