A thread based off of the start of a conversation off the topic of it's thread.

With ARC's and ATRT's coming out, discussion started about how Clone Commandos might be added into the game and how they would operate.

My own two cents is that I like the idea of getting them in similar fashion to Inferno Squad or Clan Wren where there is a generic squad that can be taken as well as a named squad. I personally feel like the Bad Batch would work better as their own unit, or possibly as an Operative (Hunter) with Companions (similar to K2S0 or ID-10), that way you can run as many or as few as you'd like. For the commandos themselves, a generic squad could take keywords such as Reliable and Infiltrate or perhaps even Impervious over something like Infiltrate . Maybe Delta Squad could be a named group, or you could simply have a mix and match squad of both Delta and Omega (from the books).

As for the Bad Batch, I think it would cool to run them similar to how Iden can bring ID-10 and Cassian can take K2S0 but expand it so the base unit (Hunter) can bring along Wrecker, Tech, and Crosshair as extra firepower. If it ran like an operative, then they could get a unique command or two based on who they bring in the squad or they could simply have "Secret Mission" to fit their more flexible general mission parameters.

Of course, I'm no game designer and the Commandos are among my favorite groups in the Star Wars universe, so of course I'm going to consider them stronger in the game than would probably be balanced, but I'd love to hear other takes and opinions!

I would like to see them come as Boss that can come on his own (maybe as an operative like Cassian with a config) or as many of the squad as you want (as Special Forces), so basically Boss with 3 optional heavy weapon slots (maybe minimum 1) and each of the squad can go into a corps unit as a heavy and leader (like fives and echo) it would be an expensive squad if you take them all (like 180-200 points) but powerful.

Maybe one with repair (Fixer), one with a sniper (Sev) and one with mines (Scorch)

red defense with surge, immune dioxis

maybe 2 black range 1-2 pistol and 1 black 1 white range 1-3 DC-17m,

I can see them having not many keywords on the main card but each trooper having 1 or 2

16 minutes ago, 5particus said:

I would like to see them come as Boss that can come on his own (maybe as an operative like Cassian with a config) or as many of the squad as you want (as Special Forces), so basically Boss with 3 optional heavy weapon slots (maybe minimum 1) and each of the squad can go into a corps unit as a heavy and leader (like fives and echo) it would be an expensive squad if you take them all (like 180-200 points) but powerful.

Maybe one with repair (Fixer), one with a sniper (Sev) and one with mines (Scorch)

red defense with surge, immune dioxis

maybe 2 black range 1-2 pistol and 1 black 1 white range 1-3 DC-17m,

I can see them having not many keywords on the main card but each trooper having 1 or 2

Would you give them more than 1 wound each? It is just that I see that without Impervious or Immune Pierce, 4 wounds would be very easy to snipe away.

As for their weapons, I could see them having 2 armament slots, one for the sniper config and one for the anti-armour config, but it might be too strong if the entire squad is able to use all 3 configs. So maybe instead they can only take 1 Heavy weapon, and that Heavy can flip his card like Cassian's Pistol/Sniper with Reconfigure. So the Heavy can always use the DC-17m, as that is the units default weapon, but he can flip his heavy weapon upgrade card from sniper to anit-armour.

14 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Would you give them more than 1 wound each? It is just that I see that without Impervious or Immune Pierce, 4 wounds would be very easy to snipe away.

As for their weapons, I could see them having 2 armament slots, one for the sniper config and one for the anti-armour config, but it might be too strong if the entire squad is able to use all 3 configs. So maybe instead they can only take 1 Heavy weapon, and that Heavy can flip his card like Cassian's Pistol/Sniper with Reconfigure. So the Heavy can always use the DC-17m, as that is the units default weapon, but he can flip his heavy weapon upgrade card from sniper to anit-armour.

yeah i think 2 health each for the special forces unit and maybe 5 for the operative unit.

depend if you want to make it Delta squad or have generic clone commandos, my thoughts were all about delta squad but a generic clone commando squad would potentially be too similar to the Arc troopers

Personally I would like it if bad batch came in there own box I think they are so unique/ different they should have there own box.

I would like it if the commandos where like clan wren/inferno squad where u could run a genric 4 man squad or a name one (most likely delta I dont think omega has been brought over to cannon). The named squad only having 1 model (Boss) but the equip: Fixer, Sev, Scorch. Keyword. Thats just personally what I would like to see

Don't really care for the Bad Batch, but have a special place for Delta squad. I'd be happy with generic as long as they look like the more original design, and include enough minis to paint them like Boss, Fixer, Sev and Scorch. And Gregor too.

Bad batch probably more likely though.

I think it will be a while before we get bad batch in a recent interview with Luke Eddy he mentioned that they are more likely to wait until the bad batch show comes out before they work on making them that way they dont put them in the game have the show come and show them doing something cool/should be in the game but it be to late since they all ready put them in the game

I agree that having the leader be the "core" of a named version of the unit makes the most sense (which does prevent the Leader character from being added to the non-Equip unit though), since you can't lose a Leader's keywords until the unit is entirely defeated anyway. I could also see the Commando Republic box either just coming with four models and being completely generic (unlikely that they would do both a generic and "named" using that same four models given FFG's WYSIWYG approach to Heavy and Personnel upgrades), or with seven models (personal preference of eight though). For the seven model box the leader model could be shared amongst the two units, the basic generic unit may have no Heavy or Personnel upgrade slots, just four models, while the "unique" unit has three Heavy slots with the Equip keyword.

I think it is far more likely to see Bad Batch as a unit rather than a design similar to Cassian, since we don't quite see them splitting up quite so much but we'll see.

Given that FFG/Disney are not very good at ALL at coordinating releases I wouldn't be surprised if Bad Batch aren't added until 2022 at the earliest. If Disney wanted to coordinate the releases (anywhere near each other) then they could always let the game designers watch the show early. Also, seeing as the show is post Order 66 and the latest tagline I saw had them working as mercenaries, it may not even ber pertinent for whatever is released for GAR.

I wouldn't release Bad Batch until after season 1 of their show. That way they get the flavor right.

Honestly, part of my dismay or lack of enthusiasm for any of the Clones, is they are all literally the same. Even their weapons are the same within several units. The characters are different and they have the option (we'll see if FFG takes it) of having the most diverse collection of operatives and commanders (almost every jedi that made an appearance in the shows/movies should get a figure with different rules, there could be 10 different force users in this faction easy)

At least the separatists, have droids, but they are different droids and have different stats, weapons, looks, etc.

The Rebels and Imperials, even have some similarities between the troops, but have very different roles, looks, weapons, etc.

Clones look like clones. They literally give us 2-3 heads that all look the same throughout every box and are, . . . Yawn . . . boring and feel the same. 3 troop choices now and they all have the same gun still. Without a change in the helmet, you'd never know which ones belong to which unit.

@buckero0 I mean, in theory the Clones SHOULD be all look the same, that's kind of the point of a clone? Seeing as the whole point of the Clone army was to quickly form a well trained army from a genetic template as opposed to recruiting people from various planets and training them, having the bulk of the army made up of, well, clones makes sense.

8 hours ago, Nithorian said:

Would you give them more than 1 wound each? It is just that I see that without Impervious or Immune Pierce, 4 wounds would be very easy to snipe away.

As for their weapons, I could see them having 2 armament slots, one for the sniper config and one for the anti-armour config, but it might be too strong if the entire squad is able to use all 3 configs. So maybe instead they can only take 1 Heavy weapon, and that Heavy can flip his card like Cassian's Pistol/Sniper with Reconfigure. So the Heavy can always use the DC-17m, as that is the units default weapon, but he can flip his heavy weapon upgrade card from sniper to anit-armour.

I'd probably make them 2 wounds apiece and still give them something like Impervious. This would make point cost go way up, but it'd work for using them as a center piece.

Rather than a config, I'd probably instead go with what was suggested elsewhere in this thread and make each unit carry the weapon thematic to them. Fixer just uses a standard DC-17, Scorch can fire the Anti-Armor (Range 1, Impact 2, Blast, 1 Red|2 Black|1White), and Sev can pack the sniper config (range 2-5, sharpshooter or marksman, and High Velocity, 2Red|1White). Then, a standard pool could have the DC-17 just shoot 2 Black a pop or maybe 1Black|1White (Range 1-3). Range differences would make sure that you can't get Blast, Sharpshooter/Marksman, High Velocity, AND Impact all on the same roll.

Alternately, they could have shields. I'm not sure if that was just for the game or has entered actual canon.

Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

Alternately, they could have shields. I'm not sure if that was just for the game or has entered actual canon.

I think that was mostly just for the game. I believe in universe it was more akin to a kind of emp shielding that made it harder for blaster bolts to find purchase (but I may be wrong).

Shields could be an interesting survivability counter to make them a bit tougher. I guess part of the construction would come down to what philosophy they're expecting to see deployment under. I made my suggestions under the idea that they would be a hardened core unit to be a center piece of an offensive push or the long-lasting gum unit to hold up a key point on the map. They could also be built as infiltration units designed for flanking and harrying.

They do have the punch blades so maybe a better melee attack? What if each clone could be attached to their own unit or work separately in addition to the squad?

I think the main thematic difference between ARCs and commandos is that commandos are supposed to be hard to shift, as well as having much more specialized roles. Unfortunately new cannon on commandos is sparse, but everyone in the Bad Batch has their own talent, same in old Delta squad. Both ARCs and commandos have a high degree of autonomy, but only ARCs are attached to larger bodies of troops in leadership roles. I think commandos are the kinds of units that you're supposed to drop off in the bush somewhere and expect them to make things happen on their own.

Here's another idea, what about something to do with healing or reviving. Both game appearances feature this. Something that lets you pick up a downed squad member or apply bacta to heal a wound. Or you could use the new repulse ability from battlefront to push units.

@Ilostmycactus just give the unit Treat as opposed to tying it to a particular model if the "pickup" mechanic is desired. But game mechanics in specific are not necessarily good representations of canon.

Having the model also be available separately would be... Interesting. Either the individual models still have the same health as when added to the unit (so some relatively easy to defeat units), or the health is different which would be mildly annoying from a consistency standpoint.

Regardless, of what happens, Commandos certainly have a lot of options within canon.

16 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Alternately, they could have shields. I'm not sure if that was just for the game or has entered actual canon.

If u gave them shields would u also give them generator (Or whatever the keyword is that lets droidekas get shields back for free) or no?

i sincerely doubt theyre going to be better deathtroopers with shields. I think youre setting yourselves up for disappointment.

4 hours ago, lunitic501 said:

If u gave them shields would u also give them generator (Or whatever the keyword is that lets droidekas get shields back for free) or no?

IF they were to have shields probably. But I don't recall seeing any shield capability from the Bad Batch's armour, and I don't think that is a capability they would remove.

Honestly though, I think most of the things only seen in the game (shields, medical treatment, etc) wouldn't be included, as those are basically just FPS mechanics. Armament for changeable weapons, possibly (sniper and impact/critical weapon I suppose?), with the "blaster' of the DC-17m as the standard unit weapon.

6 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

IF they were to have shields probably. But I don't recall seeing any shield capability from the Bad Batch's armour, and I don't think that is a capability they would remove.

Honestly though, I think most of the things only seen in the game (shields, medical treatment, etc) wouldn't be included, as those are basically just FPS mechanics. Armament for changeable weapons, possibly (sniper and impact/critical weapon I suppose?), with the "blaster' of the DC-17m as the standard unit weapon.

Though TCW is our current cannon, it's not really hyper realistic as far as details go e.g. commando droid vibroswords just smack clones, no one is getting cut like they should be, lack of graphic injuries most of the time, animation budget reducing ship counts in battles etc. So, whether or not they have deflector shields in their armor is a detail I doubt the crunch of finishing the last season was very concerned about. Besides, Disney has been content to let studios like Dice determine what some new cannon details are (new clone divisions, battlefields), so I don't think it would be a problem for FFG to re-flesh out commandos with shields or resistant armor again.

7 hours ago, Ilostmycactus said:

Though TCW is our current cannon, it's not really hyper realistic as far as details go e.g. commando droid vibroswords just smack clones, no one is getting cut like they should be, lack of graphic injuries most of the time, animation budget reducing ship counts in battles etc. So, whether or not they have deflector shields in their armor is a detail I doubt the crunch of finishing the last season was very concerned about. Besides, Disney has been content to let studios like Dice determine what some new cannon details are (new clone divisions, battlefields), so I don't think it would be a problem for FFG to re-flesh out commandos with shields or resistant armor again.

It's not just an issue of being canon or not though, there is also a similar gameplay balance issue as with the video game. The shields were in the game in the first place in order to give the player some manner of regenerating health. This is an element borrowed from Halo and probably some other games of the time that I can't recall right now. Since the shields are no longer canon, they are not "required" so don't need to be included if it would alter the game's balance or result in a unit with too high of a points cost. And the canon isn't just the show, none of the recent reference books have brought it back into canon either for Katarn-class armor. Defining battlefields and naming units doesn't have a huge impact on canon, but still has to be cleared by Disney. DICE may have had to do alterations to their original ideas to get those cleared.

Impervious is likely, since I'd be surprised at only ARC troopers having it and not commandos. Reliable would be another decent keyword to give them, as it serves to increase both offense and defence. Infiltrate is also possible, as it sets the commandos apart from ARC Troopers, and reflects that their missions are often behind enemy lines. For upgrade slots, I could see them being almost the same as ARC troopers, but exchanging the Heavy Weapon slot with Armament.

As Bad Batch would/should be unique, I could see them potentially having Secret Mission, which would be a flavourful include.

22 hours ago, Ilostmycactus said:

Besides, Disney has been content to let studios like Dice determine what some new cannon details are (new clone divisions, battlefields), so I don't think it would be a problem for FFG to re-flesh out commandos with shields or resistant armor again.

To my knowledge, Disney has already kind of allowed this to be the case with the Nadiri Starhawk from the Aftermath series. I don't believe there was any more than a text description of them until they made the unit expansion for Armada.

I feel like they would still mimic the game/books though purely because they are already such a popular group in the fan base. The Battlefront 2 Commandos were super fun to play as, but they really didn't feel like the one's from the debut game. Plus, the addition of the little pulse booper thingy that mechanically was just Force Push is not something I've ever seen them have, but made them more viable in the video game. Mechanically, it made sense, though I didn't care for it much by way of lore interpretation.

In Legion, they might could forgo having some strong melee attack in favor of letting the unit have the pulse blast thingy. Perhaps that's one of the things that make them special: a melee only attack that allows you to make a Speed-1 move if the roll produced any hits (regardless of if it was blocked or not) and throw Supressive on it to help keep it from turning into boop-wars.

On 9/11/2020 at 1:58 PM, lunitic501 said:

If u gave them shields would u also give them generator (Or whatever the keyword is that lets droidekas get shields back for free) or no?

I probably wouldn't. Personally, I would much rather see them get more straight up health than have to faff with shields. It feels like one extra gimmick being added onto a unit that is (despite my absolute love of the Commandos) likely a gimmicky unit anyway once it's balanced out and finds it's niche.

What COULD be done is give Fixer Shield 1 and Generator 1 as the benefit for taking him along with the team. Then, he becomes a prestty solid defensive unit instead of just having something like Repair which just doesn't get a ton of use (in my experience). If you can slot Commandos into Corps units like the ARCs then this could become an interesting way to build a "Commander Corps" with a Clone Captain and a Commando shoring up the defenses.

(all of this, of course, is just my opinion about a unit I'm only dreaming will someday be announced, so there's no hill here I'm willing to die on)

17 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

It's not just an issue of being canon or not though, there is also a similar gameplay balance issue as with the video game. The shields were in the game in the first place in order to give the player some manner of regenerating health. This is an element borrowed from Halo and probably some other games of the time that I can't recall right now. Since the shields are no longer canon, they are not "required" so don't need to be included if it would alter the game's balance or result in a unit with too high of a points cost. And the canon isn't just the show, none of the recent reference books have brought it back into canon either for Katarn-class armor. Defining battlefields and naming units doesn't have a huge impact on canon, but still has to be cleared by Disney. DICE may have had to do alterations to their original ideas to get those cleared.

Impervious is likely, since I'd be surprised at only ARC troopers having it and not commandos. Reliable would be another decent keyword to give them, as it serves to increase both offense and defence. Infiltrate is also possible, as it sets the commandos apart from ARC Troopers, and reflects that their missions are often behind enemy lines. For upgrade slots, I could see them being almost the same as ARC troopers, but exchanging the Heavy Weapon slot with Armament.

As Bad Batch would/should be unique, I could see them potentially having Secret Mission, which would be a flavourful include.

The halo point is good. I did some digging on te wiki and couldn't really find a shield reference that wasn't from the game. Otherwise it just said katarn armor was resistant. I don't think the traviss books had shields, just super resistant. As for modern cannon I don't think commandos have been in any books have they? Maybe a gregor comic?

Personally I hope they avoid the bad batch. The characters are too caricature-ey for me. Their bodies are different too and I'd rather any sculpts not get used up on them as options vs having more normal options. You can only have 1 group of them and then any extra minis become useless.

I don't care about shields specifically but they should have pretty absorbative armor vs standard. I imagine they might mirror release magnaguards. If so, making the commandos capable in melee (call it cqc training or something) and better in ranged vs magnas as capable in ranged and better in melee might work. Some kind of swat influence would be good too.

@Ilostmycactus like I said, I think Impervious is likely to represent being sturdier than standard Clone issue. Technically, models like Ursa Wren aren't supposed to reused either, but we'll see what FFG does. Bad Batch as a separate box makes some sense.

I also expect the melee unit for GAR to be Wookiees either as part of a hard plastic re-release or as an extra card in a GAR specific rifle armed Wookiees.

On 9/10/2020 at 12:05 PM, buckero0 said:

I wouldn't release Bad Batch until after season 1 of their show. That way they get the flavor right.

Honestly, part of my dismay or lack of enthusiasm for any of the Clones, is they are all literally the same. Even their weapons are the same within several units. The characters are different and they have the option (we'll see if FFG takes it) of having the most diverse collection of operatives and commanders (almost every jedi that made an appearance in the shows/movies should get a figure with different rules, there could be 10 different force users in this faction easy)

At least the separatists, have droids, but they are different droids and have different stats, weapons, looks, etc.

The Rebels and Imperials, even have some similarities between the troops, but have very different roles, looks, weapons, etc.

Clones look like clones. They literally give us 2-3 heads that all look the same throughout every box and are, . . . Yawn . . . boring and feel the same. 3 troop choices now and they all have the same gun still. Without a change in the helmet, you'd never know which ones belong to which unit.

They are clones after all. They're all going to look the same being their genetics come from one person, Jango Fett. As for their weapons and gear being the same, remember they are the standing army for the Galactic Republic. You want the gear your troops use to be standardized for ease of production and supply.

@T70 Driver With standardized soldiers the GAR probably also only had one size of uniform/armour as opposed to two: too small and too big.