8 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

Two games with 2x SyncLaser Geonosian HMP, 2x MMP FCS Baktoid Hyena, 1x DFS-311 versus PHAT Anakin 7b and Wolfe. Smashed them. Hard. All those wide, wide arcs and token sharing and rerolls.

Seems like HMP (and to a lesser extent MMP Baktoids) are the actual * Separatist ace-killer list.

Well-modded, high time-on-target, with enough movement tricks to slow down an opponent's offense while keeping guns on. @Ryuneke had some batreps against low ship count lists with 4 I1s + Doug (I1 DGS), and it seems like HMP just kinda own against small numbers of ships. There kind of isn't anywhere you can go against them.

These things seem like they can be overwhelmed , but not easily outflown . That seems like the sweet-spot for anti-ace ships , kinda like the old hypthetical Rock-Paper-Scissors or Three Pillers. Jousters can beat turrets. Turrets beat aces. Aces beat jousters.

* I've always hated it when folks have called Nantex an "ace-killer list" since against a lot of the field the Nantex are just aces themselves, but cheaper, or with more control tools back in the pre-nerf Ensnare days.

On 10/14/2020 at 5:47 PM, theBitterFig said:

These things seem like they can be overwhelmed , but not easily outflown .

Agreed. Im having issues actually fitting them into existing lists though. They seem too expensive than what they do. Additionally they have a different play style from the rest of the squads. I tend to run them with the config. + ESC. What is everyone else flying.

23 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Agreed. Im having issues actually fitting them into existing lists though. They seem too expensive than what they do. Additionally they have a different play style from the rest of the squads. I tend to run them with the config. + ESC. What is everyone else flying.

Yep, me too. I've only gotten my hands on two of them so far, and can't/won't play online, so I've only managed a couple games. I've tried Synced Laser Geonosians, and like them. I've tried one with a Concussion Bomb, but between the weirdness of sideslip and the newness of the bomb, it didn't feel "right." I *really* want to get some on the table with a missile load-out - like non-Discord and non-ESC load-outs - to see if these crazy S.O.B.s can make missiles work at last.

The hivemind seems to think that spamming them is the answer - is the answer to any chassis. I much prefer combined arms, and yes, these guys's costing make them a weird fit in the faction. I haven't had time to try out more than a couple of the 25(!) lists I've theorycrafted, unfortunately. But I think one of these as your naked Tactical Relay carrier could work, supporting whatever mix of Hyenas and Vultures you prefer. I like the idea of two of these controlling the middle of the board with a battleship Infiltrator threatening one side and something else threatening the other side. In the end, it kinda feels like the CIS has a giant toolbox, and you can sort of just drop anything on the table in any combination and it will be fine for casual night. But if you must fly competitively, take your favorite and spam the **** out of it.

7 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

In the end, it kinda feels like the CIS has a giant toolbox, and you can sort of just drop anything on the table in any combination and it will be fine for casual night.

This. I feel like FFG is giving us these as the answer to a question we didnt have. The trifighter on the other hand.....

8 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Agreed. Im having issues actually fitting them into existing lists though. They seem too expensive than what they do. Additionally they have a different play style from the rest of the squads. I tend to run them with the config. + ESC. What is everyone else flying.

Same team. They don’t seem to fit existing concepts, and seem to demand being built around. Upgrades rack up their cost quickly. Sideslip is definitely not as flexible as a turnaround... I think.

I’ve only tried Geonosians so far, and found them rather head-scratching. They just sit there, fly weird, and take up a big chunk of points. ESCs are next on the try list. Onderons seem good, but double down on the priciness. I’m honestly tempted to try a fully loaded 286 along with a supporting 311 + horde and just double down on the points & squad commitment to the thing.

17 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

This. I feel like FFG is giving us these as the answer to a question we didnt have. The trifighter on the other hand.....

I feel like the I5 and I6 Firespray is FFG giving answers for questions we didn't have. CIS had strong personality of "we have almost only low initiative stuff, but it will still rock your face." I'd rather have had Jango and Zam be I4 or lower but with strong abilities to compensate.

Doesn’t Jango already have a strong ability? I don’t think its something that you try to trigger, but if it happens it is defiantly a boon.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

will still rock your face

Hahahaha. I see what you did there. Im looking at you grappling struts...

1 hour ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Doesn’t Jango already have a strong ability? I don’t think its something that you try to trigger, but if it happens it is defiantly a boon.

Probably. It's passive mods, so it likely is. I really wasn't trying to make a statement about the strength of his current ability, just his initiative. If it came off that way, I miscommunicated. Jango being lower initiative would have been backed by lore as well, since Obi-Wan outflew him. I know initiative does not equal pilot skill, but when you have lore-theming and faction-theming in sync, why go against it?

It's similar to how when the Razorcrest comes out, I expect Din Djarin to have a lower initiative than Q9-0 since that out right say in show that Zero is better. Make Din an I4 with a cool, super-useful ability and make Zero an I6 with an okay ability. No need to make Din an I5 or I6 just because we think he's a pretty cool character.

Personally, I've flown this to moderate success so far,

Geonosian Prototype (35)
Synced Laser Cannons (6)
Kraken (11)
Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 4

Geonosian Prototype (35)
Discord Missiles (4)
Synced Laser Cannons (6)
Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)

Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 4

Baktoid Drone (34)
Discord Missiles (4)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)
Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)

Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 4

Baktoid Drone (34)
Discord Missiles (4)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)
DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z408XWW354WW222WW323Y408X224WW354WWWW323Y405X224W209WWWWW323Y405X224W209WWW221WW323&sn=First Idea with HMP&obs=

I find that it does decently well against anything with less then 4 ships, but after that, it becomes a bit more difficult.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Jango being lower initiative would have been backed by lore as well, since Obi-Wan outflew him. I know initiative does not equal pilot skill, but when you have lore-theming and faction-theming in sync, why go against it?

Because CIS needs a pseudo ace. Also we know how good Boba is (at I5) and he must have learned from his dad (meaning that Jango must be I6... 🤣 🤣 ). In all seriousness though, I think it has more to do with the fact that the Separatists don’t have many high initiative options so for game balance reasons Jango had to be I6.

40 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Because CIS needs a pseudo ace... I think it has more to do with the fact that the Separatists don’t have many high initiative options so for game balance reasons Jango had to be I6.

I'm not convinced they do need an Ace. CIS has done very, very well without a contingent of aces to choose from. It was part of their faction identity.

But shouldn’t each platform have access to the major play styles/list archetypes? Thats part of the reason the FO has an issue with not being able to drop bombs.

11 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Doesn’t Jango already have a strong ability? I don’t think its something that you try to trigger, but if it happens it is defiantly a boon.

Jango's ability is actually quite weak. Not quite Vonreg levels, but still pretty bad.

It locks him into forever doing blue moves, so most of the time he has to just putter along and allow himself to get shot to pieces. The opponent can turn the ability off by doing a blue move of their own, and even if the ability is active, can mostly negate it by choosing different actions (eg. take a target lock or evade instead of a Focus). And the opponent needs to actually roll a Focus result; sometimes you will do all the work and get the ability working only to watch your opponent roll hit-hit-blank or evade-evade-blank and leave you shaking your head at all of the wasted effort.

1 hour ago, DR4CO said:

It locks him into forever doing blue moves, so most of the time he has to just putter along and allow himself to get shot to pieces.

I see what you are saying, but I really think that it isn't an ability that you try for. Treat him as an I6 with no pilot ability, and occasionally you’ll get to flip your opponents dice. I think that, although its not a very big one, the threat of him slow rolling and negating dice is a bigger deal than him actually doing it.

16 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Also we know how good Boba is (at I5) and he must have learned from his dad (meaning that Jango must be I6... 🤣 🤣 )

The copy is never as good as the original.