Hi Everybody,

Sitting at work on a slow internet day has got me thinking about “fixes”, term used extremely loosely.

The title is mainly in reference to the new HMP Droid slide move becoming a talent for some ships. Ie -

Takobo Drift - either small base only, or more restrictive Tie interceptor or A wing only. If you reveal a 3 speed bank or turn, you may execute that as a slide move, gain a stress token.

I’m on my phone, so wording may need to be fixed, but from a 1.0 standpoint, the early ships like the interceptor missed out on things like the S Loop simply because they were released early. Thoughts? Probably rubbish, but I’m waiting too long for an application to load and it’s either post this or smash a computer...

In this case, specifically? That better be terrifyingly expensive, or restricted. Imagine, say, Guri doing an Advanced Sensors Side-slip. Who cares what your dial was, it no longer matters.

Even if you have to broadcast that you will be side-slipping, it still is a lot of room to do stuff. I feel like, on the slower, less maneuverable, gunship platform, it will be safer than on something actually nimble.

You’re right in that scenario, which is why I was thinking it could be chassis restricted. It wouldn’t be so broken on an A wing, but on Guri, I could see it flipping tables as your agency has been removed. Your opponents I mean.
maybe restrict it to 2 die primaries? No idea. My line of thinking was more does this route allow new ideas to continue, without worrying if it will restrict older designs

I feel like Side Slip, in general, might be something that is best as highly limited.

Doing this with other design space, though, makes perfect sense to me! Although probably more often as Mods, than as talents.

I think after EAs squadrons comes out the drift technique is going to be more of a focus for starfighter fans everywhere. Since it appears to be a new slip in the vein of special move like a K-turn, or T-roll. I'd imagine it gets represented by a new surgical move that pulls a 90° at the end of a bank. Which could be a very powerful move.

The side slip though I think is better to keep as a unique property of a very limited ship pool for a good while though.

I love the thought of some sort of Illicit to grant sideslip.

One thing which could work: make it semi-telegraphed. You have to activate it in the end phase, and then it'll make your next turn/bank into a sideslip, treating it's difficulty as red. One time use, and you let your opponent know ahead of time, not the direction, but that a sideslip is possible. In a lot of ways, it'd be a lot like the HMP config.

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Relatedly, I'd love to see a ship that was somewhat Striker-like that had a mandatory (if not stressed) 1-straight sideslip before revealing the dial.

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Third sideslip idea: I want some ship to simply have a pair of red sideslips on the dial. Maybe no K-Turn or other flip moves--just sideslips. That'd be a fun and unique build.

Heck, maybe that should be the 3e Starviper... 3-hard Sideslip instead of 3-S-Loops.

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Back to the general idea: having upgrades and configs that confer some of the nifty new mechanics to old ships seems cool. Some stuff specifically? Not necessarily.

I think ships with tractor ability should be able to tractor nearby items to accomplish the same thing...

2 minutes ago, Wayne Argabright said:

I think ships with tractor ability should be able to tractor nearby items to accomplish the same thing...

No.

Nonono.

nooooooo. No. NO! Bad Wayne! Stop it! Don't you dare! No cookies after dinner tonight!

What if it was a modification that represented a requirement of high skill as a pilot but also put stress on your ship, and had limited uses?

Thrust-Control Override, Modification

Must be initiative 3(4?) or higher, small base only, 2(1?) charge(s)

When you perform a bank maneuver, you may spend 1 charge to treat this maneuver as a sideslip instead. Treat that maneuver as red, and its difficulty cannot be otherwise modified (sorry, Leia and those republic droids: no white sideslips for Anakin)

Alternatively, roll dice for damage like an asteroid instead of/in addition to stress? Or damage+strain or deplete instead? It's got to be pretty punishing but it should also feel like a skilled pilot pushing their limits in the moment. You could also lessen these restrictions if you telegraph it: maybe spend a charge in systems to treat your banks as sideslips when executed so that the enemy can plan for it with their repositions?

15 hours ago, Npmartian said:

What if it was a modification that represented a requirement of high skill as a pilot but also put stress on your ship, and had limited uses?

Thrust-Control Override, Modification

Must be initiative 3(4?) or higher, small base only, 2(1?) charge(s)

When you perform a bank maneuver, you may spend 1 charge to treat this maneuver as a sideslip instead. Treat that maneuver as red, and its difficulty cannot be otherwise modified (sorry, Leia and those republic droids: no white sideslips for Anakin)

Alternatively, roll dice for damage like an asteroid instead of/in addition to stress? Or damage+strain or deplete instead? It's got to be pretty punishing but it should also feel like a skilled pilot pushing their limits in the moment. You could also lessen these restrictions if you telegraph it: maybe spend a charge in systems to treat your banks as sideslips when executed so that the enemy can plan for it with their repositions?

I really like your thinking behind that. I would say Int 4, seems to be the start of the “Ace”. It’s something a good pilot can do, but they don’t want to do a lot in case it damages the ship too much.
I really like the thought you have put into things like Leia, this is a hard move and nothing’s going to change that.I think points would have to be initiative based, an Int 6 would get far more use out of it than a 4, also definitely small base only.
Nice work!

16 hours ago, Wayne Argabright said:

I think ships with tractor ability should be able to tractor nearby items to accomplish the same thing...

Slap it on the Shadow Caster as a "Shadow Caster 2" title. You can move rocks and remotes around, but don't get the current title effect.

17 hours ago, Npmartian said:

What if it was a modification that represented a requirement of high skill as a pilot but also put stress on your ship, and had limited uses?

Thrust-Control Override, Modification

Must be initiative 3(4?) or higher, small base only, 2(1?) charge(s)

When you perform a bank maneuver, you may spend 1 charge to treat this maneuver as a sideslip instead. Treat that maneuver as red, and its difficulty cannot be otherwise modified (sorry, Leia and those republic droids: no white sideslips for Anakin)

Alternatively, roll dice for damage like an asteroid instead of/in addition to stress? Or damage+strain or deplete instead? It's got to be pretty punishing but it should also feel like a skilled pilot pushing their limits in the moment. You could also lessen these restrictions if you telegraph it: maybe spend a charge in systems to treat your banks as sideslips when executed so that the enemy can plan for it with their repositions?

Purhaps you could choose what phase you telegraph it to lessen the potential damage .

End phase of the previous turn you spend the charge: When you perform the maneuvre just receive stress.

Spend the charge in the system phase : when you perform the maneuvre roll a damage dice and stress.

Spend the charge in the Activation phase: when you perform the maneuver roll one damage dice, gain a strain and a stress.

Something like that.

Thematically its like the pilot holding out to make the hard turn until the last possible second or pulling away early.

I could really see sideslips for gunships and bulky ships, as the LAAT. It would be way more thematic there than, say, in an A-wing. Also it would be really weird to offer any ship a way of performing these maneuvers without telegraphing them the previous turn like the HMP. I mean, the HMP is supposed to be built for that so...

Anyway, new maneuvers look like fun 😃 and open up the design space.

3 hours ago, xanatos135 said:

I could really see sideslips for gunships and bulky ships, as the LAAT. It would be way more thematic there than, say, in an A-wing. Also it would be really weird to offer any ship a way of performing these maneuvers without telegraphing them the previous turn like the HMP. I mean, the HMP is supposed to be built for that so...

Anyway, new maneuvers look like fun 😃 and open up the design space.

I see a slide as a good pilot using kinetic energy to keep forward momentum, but being skilled enough to kick the rear of the ship around so its guns are now pointing to the side. It's why I though it should be limited to the 3 speed banks and turns.

7 hours ago, xanatos135 said:

I could really see sideslips for gunships and bulky ships, as the LAAT. It would be way more thematic there than, say, in an A-wing. Also it would be really weird to offer any ship a way of performing these maneuvers without telegraphing them the previous turn like the HMP. I mean, the HMP is supposed to be built for that so...

Anyway, new maneuvers look like fun 😃 and open up the design space.

Yup, I was hopeing the LAAT would come with a way to get sideslip, its the first the thing we see it do in the Geonosia arena.

9 hours ago, xanatos135 said:

I could really see sideslips for gunships and bulky ships, as the LAAT. It would be way more thematic there than, say, in an A-wing. Also it would be really weird to offer any ship a way of performing these maneuvers without telegraphing them the previous turn like the HMP. I mean, the HMP is supposed to be built for that so...

Most this.

The sideslip is a helicopter-like maneuver and has no business on most other engines-to-the-rear chassis. I'm all for more maneuvers, but this one does not feel like something that belongs on a ship that cannot innately and easily move sideways.

Lastly, maybe we should wait to see if it sux before we want every ship to have it.

There is already a ship that can do this - the rarely seen Starviper pilot, Dalan Oberos - and this pilot is widely considered useless at I4.

1 hour ago, Antipodean Ork said:

There is already a ship that can do this - the rarely seen Starviper pilot, Dalan Oberos - and this pilot is widely considered useless at I4.

He is mobile like crazy, sure, but he ends up either unmodded or modded+stressed after standard reposition. If he uses the 90deg move to turn the arc, stressed+unmodded. And unmodded green dice on a one-shield more-than-quarter-of your-list platform is not unproblematic....

Plus Vipers do not get rid of stress effortless. Granted the HMP has only four blues, but it has that 2hard.

If he like the HMP would get "free" rerolls (via networked aim) or a free calculate+free rerolls while stressed (Onderon) he surely would see more play. There is a reason why Guri is taken instead ("free" focus at higher ini) or just other cheaper platforms instead.

Also while not axactly a side slip, IG-88 D can do a 3 turn with a 180 rotate at the end which is the same as a side slip, other than where the template is laid. But that manuevuer is fantastic.

So Dalan Oberos and IG88D, is this where I'm meant to whine about other factions out scumming Scum? The sky is falling!

17 hours ago, Managarmr said:

He is mobile like crazy, sure, but he ends up either unmodded or modded+stressed after standard reposition. If he uses the 90deg move to turn the arc, stressed+unmodded. And unmodded green dice on a one-shield more-than-quarter-of your-list platform is not unproblematic....

And there you've got it. If a talent existed that would allow you to do a super move at the cost of no mods, people will either find a platform that abuses it best by giving it mods regarless (sontir fell, guri). And then it needs to be priced like you're one of those pilot, and generic who don't do much with it won't ever use it cuz it cost too much, or it's cheap and used on every free mod ace, ever.

On 9/9/2020 at 9:01 AM, theBitterFig said:

Relatedly, I'd love to see a ship that was somewhat Striker-like that had a mandatory (if not stressed) 1-straight sideslip before revealing the dial

This is commonly referred to as a barrel roll

17 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

This is commonly referred to as a barrel roll

Yes and no. A barrel roll has particular ways of failing and interacting with things on the board (obstacles, other ships, board edges). A slideslip would handle most of these things differently, because it's specifically a kind of maneuver. It's the difference between the Adaptive Ailerons move of a Striker or Reaper, and a Boost.

Yeah, but I would prefer it to be a barrel roll, and/or have the ship not have the barrel roll action. I don't double barrel rolls would be fun to play against

I have nothing at all against the sideslip becoming more available to other ships. I don’t think it fits the A-Wing or TIE Interceptor. I imagine it as the sort of thing that can only be used by craft that can move like a hovercraft/VTOL/helicopter. Like the HMP. I’d have been fine if they’d given the LAAT this ability, too (and was actually a little surprised they didn’t).

We all know that in “real” space, ships of any type could move in any direction, most with relatively little thrust. True space fighters, if they ever come to be made in our universe, will probably be equipped with little micro thrusters everywhere, to allow a full range of three dimensional movement... but that’s not very Star Wars-y. A-Wings and TIE/In’s, as we have come to know them, move FORWARD very quickly, and while they can do some limited drifting and spinning, the trajectory of the movement really only feels right if it springs from a regular FORWARD bank or turn, not a sideslip. The IG-88D maneuver feels right. A sideslip does not.

”But it ends up accomplishing the same thing!” No, it doesn’t. The end position is the same, but *how it got there* is usually almost as important in X-Wing. If my HMP starts the turn facing dead into an asteroid, and executes a deft sideslip around it, that FEELS like something it ought to be able to do. I can picture it, and the maneuver makes sense. If an A-Wing starts in the same place, and sideslips around the rock, it feels wrong. I can’t even picture an A-Wing doing that in a way that doesn’t hurt my head. What I CAN picture the A-Wing doing is the IG-88D maneuver. Which causes it to move through the rock, as it should. These things matter.

Now, I’m down for A-Wings and TIE/In’s and the like getting some shiny new maneuvers. The IG-88D maneuver is cool for them. Another thing I think I could picture an A-Wing doing would be the as-yet-unnamed (as far as I know) “reverse sideslip.” In this maneuver, you take say, a 2-bank right, and instead of putting it on the LEFT side of the ship, curving forward, you put it on the RIGHT side of the ship, curving backward. The end result would be not unlike a StarViper’s bendy barrel roll, and would represent the A-Wing sort of cutting throttle and “peeling away” from its previous heading.

But then I think of cheap StarVipers, and my blood freezes. I *hate* that ship so, so, so much. It goes wherever it damned well pleases, pretty much stress-free, and even when you can line up a shot, it’s rolling 3-5 defense dice, and just... I hate it. It should never have been given an ability that allows a simple barrel roll action to put it in one of four wildly different places, with different facings, possibly after using Afterburners. It is almost entirely unpredictable, and doesn’t feel fair at all. At least with the HMP, you know when it might possibly sideslip, and regular banks and turns are locked out on those turns, so it can only slip or straight. So I think the A-Wing “peel” might be too strong. Especially considering how cheap it is compared to the StarViper.

20 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Yeah, but I would prefer it to be a barrel roll, and/or have the ship not have the barrel roll action. I don't double barrel rolls would be fun to play against

Doesn’t N-1 Anakin essentially have this? I’ve never seen him in action. Is he awful to play against?