Swirling Viper Strike (Path of Waves) lets you spend opportunity on a Maneuver action to follow up your movement with a Strike action. Am I interpreting this right that if you did it in Water stance, you could take a third action, as long as that action is only a Support and/or Scheme action and doesn't require a roll (e.g. taking a Calming Breath or Preparing an Item)?

Water stance sees a lot of use in my games to either take the basic Maneuver (just moving 1 range band) or to take a Calming Breath. This lets you do both AND you're potentially moving much farther with your Maneuver action. Fighting mounted archers who can move pretty far and shoot you and heal a strife and fatigue (if they're over half) each round seems really brutal. Not OP, just very, very strong.

If I'm reading this right, this may be my new favorite kata.

Yes you are right and yes, archer cavalry is OP, just ask anyone that fought the Golden Horde in an open field. 😂

On 9/7/2020 at 12:27 PM, Diogo Salazar said:

Yes you are right and yes, archer cavalry is OP, just ask anyone that fought the Golden Horde in an open field. 😂

Well there is also the Utaku Tank Hunter.

1) Equip your Utaku Battle Maiden (UBM) with Bisento, stance in water, grip in 1-hand

2) Have your UBM use the Manuever action without rolling for a check. You move at least 1 range band.

3) Use second action as attack: soaring slice (Core, 177), initiating a new roll chain with at least 1 success added due to UBM's ability; negating cumbersome. Have the bisento target at least 2-3 range via throw.

4) Use opportunities to activate Piercing bolt style (Path of Waves, 90), and add at least 1 range for moving + 2 range for the throw = +3 deadliness to the attack. Thereby, if the target can't defend, they're looking at least a DLS 9 Critical strike from a safe distance.

Usually my players go full 5-6 range throw, so it becomes DLS of max 13. Although I wonder if this could be more deadlier, because I think the UBM has a typo on her ability. The second paragraph states, "During a duel or mass battle...," which I think is actually skirmish , as there is no rule for mounted duels (at least not yet) and it makes more sense if it is. If this is true, UBM mounted would at least move her school rank so the minimum DLS would go up substantially.

You don’t need extra rules for a mounted duel. Everything you need is in there. Heck, RAW pretty much says that if you want to make a duel between a mounted and dismounted samurai you are fine and they will be able to hit each other from across mountain ranges, so...

First half, yes, second half no.

25 minutes ago, Myrion said:

First half, yes, second half no.

Lol, we had this disagreement before on what constitutes a duel, but on movement and range, we can all agree it is silly and certainly the word effect can be interpreted in many ways, but for me, striking someone and causing a wound or fatigue is an effect of the strike. So yes, per rules as written, you can strike someone across a mountain range if somehow a duel got started.

Again, I am agreeing that the rule is silly and every game is to overrule that with their own houserule, but from a stand point of everyone having the same perspective, yes, that's RAW for you.

49 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

Lol, we had this disagreement before on what constitutes a duel, but on movement and range, we can all agree it is silly and certainly the word effect can be interpreted in many ways, but for me, striking someone and causing a wound or fatigue is an effect of the strike. So yes, per rules as written, you can strike someone across a mountain range if somehow a duel got started.

Again, I am agreeing that the rule is silly and every game is to overrule that with their own houserule, but from a stand point of everyone having the same perspective, yes, that's RAW for you.

You're treating this like Murphy's Rules - taking the exact wording of the book to a ridiculous length for humorous reasons.

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

You're treating this like Murphy's Rules - taking the exact wording of the book to a ridiculous length for humorous reasons.

Oh, I totally agree that is humorous and silly, but it's mostly me taking cheap potshots at a particular chapter of the book that I believe it should be thrown out and rewritten because there are many places that need to be fixed or improved.

For instance, in this particular case, whoever wrote this, why did they decide to say that positioning shouldn't matter in a duel? (which I wholeheartedly disagree, by the way) Clearly they had some intention when they wrote this and doesn't make any sense at all from a common sense (which isn't really that common) perspective. So what will most readers decide to do? They will read this, find it odd, ignore it and decide that positioning and range should matter in a duel and move on with their lives.

I mean, if there was an official tournament rule in the CCG saying that in case of a tie (which I don't think it's possible to tie in the game, but for the sake of argument, let's assume so) the one person who wore the most amount of green garments wins, guess what? Either tournament judges would tell EVERYONE BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT that ties are not going to be broken that way (to the sadness of the people who went there dressed with green sneakers, green socks, green pants, green shirt, green jacket, green hats and probably for good measure, green underwear) and warn them before hand how ties will be broken, OR, you are going to have people wearing green so much that you are going to ask yourself if it's Saint Patrick's Day already.

So yeah, both cases are silly rules that don't make sense and people will (or should) ignore them, but it doesn't mean they aren't there and we still need to talk about it.

12 hours ago, HelloRPG said:

Well there is also the Utaku Tank Hunter.

1) Equip your Utaku Battle Maiden (UBM) with Bisento, stance in water, grip in 1-hand

2) Have your UBM use the Manuever action without rolling for a check. You move at least 1 range band.

3) Use second action as attack: soaring slice (Core, 177), initiating a new roll chain with at least 1 success added due to UBM's ability; negating cumbersome. Have the bisento target at least 2-3 range via throw.

4) Use opportunities to activate Piercing bolt style (Path of Waves, 90), and add at least 1 range for moving + 2 range for the throw = +3 deadliness to the attack. Thereby, if the target can't defend, they're looking at least a DLS 9 Critical strike from a safe distance.

Usually my players go full 5-6 range throw, so it becomes DLS of max 13. Although I wonder if this could be more deadlier, because I think the UBM has a typo on her ability. The second paragraph states, "During a duel or mass battle...," which I think is actually skirmish , as there is no rule for mounted duels (at least not yet) and it makes more sense if it is. If this is true, UBM mounted would at least move her school rank so the minimum DLS would go up substantially.

Soaring Slice doesn't have an option to inflict a critical strike, so the opponent only has to worry about deadliness if they're incapacitated, right?

Also, Rider's Haste seems like it would fit well in this build. You can't go too crazy with it without putting your horse at risk, but it seems really good for when you just need to take someone down.

11 minutes ago, MonCalamariAgainstDrunkDriving said:

Soaring Slice doesn't have an option to inflict a critical strike, so the opponent only has to worry about deadliness if they're incapacitated, right?

Also, Rider's Haste seems like it would fit well in this build. You can't go too crazy with it without putting your horse at risk, but it seems really good for when you just need to take someone down.

I mean, did we really need a Kata just so you can throw a weapon?

I guess that from a perspective of weapons that could be thrown but don't have rules for it in the rules (like for instance, a knife or spear) the kata covers it appropriately, but on the other hand, having a kata so you can be able to throw effectively a Naginata, Tetsubõ or Bisentõ is just silly.

Well, I would say, yes it is needed, because if you can throw anything for "free", then that can really cheapen the way Range of a weapon matters. Weapons meant to be thrown usually also have a ranged component, but a lot of weapons aren't meant for it. Without the technique, I'd call that improvising a thrown weapon. But it is occasionally a cool martial arts movie thing to throw a weapon not meant to be thrown, and mechanically it can give otherwise short range characters an option to prevent too much shenanigans with a range lockdown.

Well, yes, my argument is that right now the only weapon that can be thrown without a kata is a shuriken.

I personally interpret the shuriken profile to also fit throwing knives but yes, this is a point. But I dunno if Javelins are a really rokugani thing. I suppose there was room for a chakram in Path of Waves, that's a real missed opportunity...

21 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

You don’t need extra rules for a mounted duel. Everything you need is in there. Heck, RAW pretty much says that if you want to make a duel between a mounted and dismounted samurai you are fine and they will be able to hit each other from across mountain ranges, so...

Yes and no. Since they need to move to within range 2 of each other at the start of the duel, they can't be on opposite sides of a mountain range - or at least, if they are, the duel doesn't actually start until they reach spears-length of each other.

On 9/7/2020 at 5:11 PM, MonCalamariAgainstDrunkDriving said:

Swirling Viper Strike (Path of Waves) lets you spend opportunity on a Maneuver action to follow up your movement with a Strike action. Am I interpreting this right that if you did it in Water stance, you could take a third action, as long as that action is only a Support and/or Scheme action and doesn't require a roll (e.g. taking a Calming Breath or Preparing an Item)?

Yes. For maximum unpleasantness, pick a ranged weapon which requires a prepare action to use, like a crossbow...

12 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

on the other hand, having a kata so you can be able to throw effectively a Naginata, Tetsubõ or Bisentõ is just silly.

To throw it? Yes.

To throw it effectively? No.

I'd rather say that what's missing is a 'generic thrown weapon' from the list of improvised weapons, which represents the damage you'd do if you tried to lob a sword, axe, or something without ever really practicing doing so first.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Yes and no. Since they need to move to within range 2 of each other at the start of the duel, they can't be on opposite sides of a mountain range - or at least, if they are, the duel doesn't actually start until they reach spears-length of each other.

You are right. They need to start at range 2, but after that, one of them can run away and still be in the duel and be hit remotely by a sword once they compromise or the other way around.

Two observations - firstly you'll struggle to open the range much given that the manoeuvre action doesn't exist in a duel and - presumably - your opponent isn't inclined to let you, and second if your plan is " I run away " I suggest that a duel is the wrong choice of conflict scene...

15 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Two observations - firstly you'll struggle to open the range much given that the manoeuvre action doesn't exist in a duel and - presumably - your opponent isn't inclined to let you, and second if your plan is " I run away " I suggest that a duel is the wrong choice of conflict scene...

I know, again, don't take my arguments here that seriously, I am just taking cheap shots at a rule that everyone agrees it doesn't make any sense.

And glad you mentioned that the manouvre action doesn't exist in duels, because our group house ruled that it does when we decided to ignore that anyone can hit anyone from anywhere and fighting for position can be as important as actually fighting.

Edit: Then again, one could always use Tempest of Air or Thunderclap Strike to push people further away to prevent being hit and they would somehow be magically hit.

On 9/9/2020 at 4:34 PM, MonCalamariAgainstDrunkDriving said:

Soaring Slice doesn't have an option to inflict a critical strike, so the opponent only has to worry about deadliness if they're incapacitated, right?

Also, Rider's Haste seems like it would fit well in this build. You can't go too crazy with it without putting your horse at risk, but it seems really good for when you just need to take someone down.

Correct, so the set up is to finish off a really tough enemy with a high ring value before they can recover (i.e. Oni or a Manifest Kami). Granted, my players commented that its probably more efficient with Student of Talons, armed with a Bisento (or Maskari as he's a pleb), doing the +8-9 DLS (max range 5-6 w/ Piercing Bolt + his school rank ability of at least 3 to get the technique) without even moving (although the scene is only limited to skirmish).