A friend I play armada with exclusively uses Vader, he hasn’t even tried most of the imperial commanders.

I own every rebel expansion with extra copies of hammerheads, nebs, cr90’s, and assault frigate, and I have multiple copies of almost every squadron expansion.

I want to come up with something that hard counters Vader specifically so my opponent tries other commanders.
He exclusively uses Vader, his ship choices are also repetitive, he only uses victory II’s, cymoons, Isd II’s, gozanti’s and he has started trying out the onager.

If I could scare him off of Vader, it would be a better experience for both of us.

Does he use squads? By the sounds of it he doesnt.

Hence;

Yavaris

Adar Tallon

Luke, Keyan, Ten plus friends

@Ginkapo 's absolutely right on this one. I had a friend that use to play nothing except Vader double Cymoons. Yavaris and 12 x Y-Wings later, he was tabled and I only lost Yavaris and the GR-75s. I don't believed he has used Vader since then. Good luck.

Upgrades that stress defense tokens. He can’t use Vader for long if you’re making him discard Tokens

To go along with other suggestions, if you can borrow Imperial stuff, Sloane will murder a Vader fleet with no squadrons.

Also, this is probably a stupid question, but have you considered just asking your friend to change it up? I have gotten tired of playing against the same fleets or looks before and unless we're prepping for a tournament, I've felt comfortable saying I'd like to go up against something different.

7 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

A friend I play armada with exclusively uses Vader, he hasn’t even tried most of the imperial commanders.

I own every rebel expansion with extra copies of hammerheads, nebs, cr90’s, and assault frigate, and I have multiple copies of almost every squadron expansion.

I want to come up with something that hard counters Vader specifically so my opponent tries other commanders.
He exclusively uses Vader, his ship choices are also repetitive, he only uses victory II’s, cymoons, Isd II’s, gozanti’s and he has started trying out the onager.

If I could scare him off of Vader, it would be a better experience for both of us.

I agree with everything that others have said. My thought is that if he is using a very offensive build, perhaps you should consider a very defensive build (with some teeth)

I suggest using an MC80 Assault Cruiser with Agate and Defiance title and Pelta with Intensify Firepower. I'd also consider some flotillas, a good size squad build and think you'll do well. There is a lot you can weather with that base build and dish some things back. If you can double-arc - you're throwing more dice back at him then his ISD. Watch that Cymoon melt when you start loading him up. Just like others have said - he's going to run out of defence tokens real quick as Vader. Here I think you'll be able to handle those haymakers before you throw your own.

15 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Does he use squads? By the sounds of it he doesnt.

Hence;

Yavaris

Adar Tallon

Luke, Keyan, Ten plus friends

sorry for the delayed response, yes he either uses ties+howlrunner+boba or he spams decimator's

8 hours ago, SuperZuk said:

I agree with everything that others have said. My thought is that if he is using a very offensive build, perhaps you should consider a very defensive build (with some teeth)

I suggest using an MC80 Assault Cruiser with Agate and Defiance title and Pelta with Intensify Firepower. I'd also consider some flotillas, a good size squad build and think you'll do well. There is a lot you can weather with that base build and dish some things back. If you can double-arc - you're throwing more dice back at him then his ISD. Watch that Cymoon melt when you start loading him up. Just like others have said - he's going to run out of defence tokens real quick as Vader. Here I think you'll be able to handle those haymakers before you throw your own.

I second the suggestion of the MC80 Assault Cruiser with Agate. I ran this against a Starhawk, and took reinforced blast doors and Early Warning System. Double brace, double redirect, with Walex. It was good enough to stand up to the Starhawk. It'll certainly be good enough to stand up to a Vader Cymoon (or two). I also used an IF Pelta to boost its damage.

18 hours ago, Church14 said:

Upgrades that stress defense tokens. He can’t use Vader for long if you’re making him discard Tokens

Squads do this best.

I think the best counter to Vader (Commander) is to equip Overload Pulse on multiple ships, and H9 Turbolasers and Weapons Battery Techs, if possible, to guarantee Blue Crits, so you can exhaust all of an enemy ship's defense tokens, thereby deterring the opponent from using Vader's ability because they'll have to discard the exhausted token.

It may not qualify as a "hard counter" that shuts down Vader completely, but it should be an effective long-term strategy that pays dividends in the later rounds, and will probably make the opponent reconsider using Vader as their Commander every time.

It's also worth understanding why the opponent chooses Vader every time, which means understand Vader:

Vader (Commander) works best with ships that roll a lot of dice and have plenty of defense tokens. The more dice a ship has, the more dice Vader can reroll at the same cost of exhausting a defense token. So the OP's Vader-loving opponent is smart to use ISDs and VSDs (and I assume Gozanti's just for cheap ship activations).

Since the opponent is using large, expensive ships, the best counter is: superior numbers of less expensive attackers.

The OP made no mention of his opponent bringing Imperial squadrons, so I have to agree with the other responders that squadrons are the best option to counter Vader Commander. If the OP's opponent is in fact not bringing any squadrons, the OP could bring as many Y-Wings and B-Wings as they have in their collection, and take down Vader's Star Destroyers relatively easily.

However, that won't necessarily make the OP's opponent stop using Vader; next game, the Opponent could simply counter with enough squadrons to engage and destroy the Rebel bombers. I expect that the squadron battle will gradually evolve into a mixture of X-Wings and bombers, and probably Jan Ors.

But that still might not compel the OP's opponent to drop Vader in favour of another Imperial Commander.

I think it will be necessary to use numerous small, fast ships to counter Vader's Star Destroyers by avoiding their deadly front arcs, whipping around their flanks, and grinding down their hull points by shooting their weak rear arcs. That might compel the opponent to branch out into using other Commanders and possibly other ships that aren't as vulnerable to being flanked.

Have you tried asking? Like "hey friend, let's try some new silly stuff tonight"?

Otherwise I guess just....higher number of attacks? Overload defense token. Squads (as mentioned) this also may be a rare and exciting chance to run MSU.

MSU is mistakenly much maligned in the meta. It’s got weaknesses, sure, but it’s not bad and can be a real killer to certain fleet types. It looks worse on paper than it is because it’s main weakness is that it’s hard to get decisive 10-1 victories in a tournament, and that skews the data. With MSU you know that you WILL sacrifice a few ships, and that lowers the MOV. For a casual game, where you’re just looking at Win/Loss, MSU is plenty viable. It’s a good counter to Vader, because lots of small attacks will either overheat defense tokens quickly or cause your opponent to just take the extra damage so they can fuel Vader.

Cymoons and Vics dont take ECM which makes them easy prey for mc30s with h9s.

“What’s the biggest counter to commander Vader?”

Sand

On 9/8/2020 at 11:54 PM, bkcammack said:

MSU is mistakenly much maligned in the meta. It’s got weaknesses, sure, but it’s not bad and can be a real killer to certain fleet types. It looks worse on paper than it is because it’s main weakness is that it’s hard to get decisive 10-1 victories in a tournament, and that skews the data. With MSU you know that you WILL sacrifice a few ships, and that lowers the MOV. For a casual game, where you’re just looking at Win/Loss, MSU is plenty viable. It’s a good counter to Vader, because lots of small attacks will either overheat defense tokens quickly or cause your opponent to just take the extra damage so they can fuel Vader.

I was not having much luck trying MSU against him bc vics/isd's with gunnery teams and Vader delete small ships.

Sato MSU with mass Y-Wings would be fun. Riekeen MC80 or even MC75 OC will teach Vader some lessons.

Also, is he going first or 2nd that can make a big difference in the objectives you should take.

If he is squadless, consider using rogues. They can single handedly take down ships. For example:

Hera, Dutch, Wedge (Hera gives Dutch and Wedge rogue during squadron phase).

Lando, Dash and Mart.

This particular combo costs 132 points and can function without any squadron commands. It is quite expensive, but it will overload his defense tokens really quickly.

Consider positioning them to avoid overlapping flak from his ships for optimal effect

4 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

If he is squadless, consider using rogues. They can single handedly take down ships. For example:

Hera, Dutch, Wedge (Hera gives Dutch and Wedge rogue during squadron phase).

Lando, Dash and Mart.

This particular combo costs 132 points and can function without any squadron commands. It is quite expensive, but it will overload his defense tokens really quickly.

Consider positioning them to avoid overlapping flak from his ships for optimal effect

Ketsu might be as good or better than Mart, depending on if Toryn or Bomber Command Center is also in the list.

On 9/13/2020 at 3:20 AM, DakkaDakka12 said:

I was not having much luck trying MSU against him bc vics/isd's with gunnery teams and Vader delete small ships.

First rule of MSU vs large Imperials: don't be in their forwards arcs! Be in their sides instead.

Or, fly massed Nebulons. 5, each with Aux Shield Team and TRC will win a joust against almost anything except Onagers - against them, avoid the Ignition arc - add a CR90 for Leia commander and just kill ISDs and VSDs. You still need to manoeuvre well to get the Imperials having to turn to get their forwards arcs to bear, but 5 Nebs will delete even an SSD quite rapidly.

Leia is better than Rieekan here because she gives them bonus speed changes and enhanced repair commands, which are key for still being alive for one turn more than they have any right to expect.

10 hours ago, Cap116 said:

Ketsu might be as good or better than Mart, depending on if Toryn or Bomber Command Center is also in the list.

A good choice as well! Might even be better due to her scatter

With this setup, you can actually completely omit having Torynn or Bomber Command Center. The squadrons can act completely independently and allow for quite funny lists. For example one of my favourite lists:

Name: Dodonna's Twin Frigates
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Dodonna

Assault: Surprise Attack
Defense: Asteroid Tactics
Navigation: Infested Fields

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• General Dodonna (20)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Admonition (8)
= 100 Points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Foresight (8)
= 80 Points

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
• External Racks (3)
• Garel's Honor (4)
= 43 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Slicer Tools (7)
= 25 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Slicer Tools (7)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• Dutch Vander (16)
• Wedge Antilles (19)
• Malee Hurra (26)
• Lando Calrissian (23)
• Rogue Squadron (14)
= 126 Points

Total Points: 399

In this case, Malee would always help you get crit/hit on all of your attacks against your opponent. That'll teach him to never fly squadless again

If he's squadless, take Luke instead of Wedge and Gold or Norra instead of Dutch. I'd still use a Bomber Command Centre though.

Dodonna loves Luke.

3 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Dodonna loves Luke.

And Luke loves Dodonna. 😉

He's not squadless.

On 9/7/2020 at 4:42 AM, DakkaDakka12 said:

sorry for the delayed response, yes he either uses ties+howlrunner+boba or he spams decimator's

31 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

He's not squadless.

Depending on his investment in squadrons, my suggested squadron setup would eat them pretty quickly. I've done that plenty of times. If you want something more hardcore, use Yavaris with squadrons such as Dutch, Wedge and Ten Numb. Add Adar Talon in the mix as well for even more harrowing fighter/bomber tech

Edit: This reminds me of a tournament list that I copied and played. It's insanely powerful against a variety of lists.

Name: Rieekan Pelta Command
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Rieekan

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Fire Lanes
Navigation: Superior Positions

Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Adar Tallon (10)
• Fighter Coordination Team (3)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 82 Points

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Yavaris (5)
= 63 Points

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
• General Rieekan (30)
= 66 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 35 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Comms Net (2)
= 20 Points

Squadrons:
• Wedge Antilles (19)
• Dutch Vander (16)
• Gold Squadron (12)
• Ten Numb (19)
• Dagger Squadron (15)
• Corran Horn (22)
• 2 x VCX-100 Freighter (30)
= 133 Points

Total Points: 399

I assume that the OP is playing standard 400pt games? Could you confirm this please? And an example of the fleet you might see would be helpful.