What roll do you use to attack? the chart in the EoE core book shows gunnery for various ship lasers but no skill for the missles. I wondered if they might auto hit but then read the guided and it talked about if the attack roll missed. Do you need to lock on first somehow? Does it take time to reach a target based on distance?

I was not even sure how to start the missle attack what roll to make, how fast the missle got there. The only thing clear was that you could activate guided if missed and enough advantages were rolled.

It's Gunnery, as per usual for starship/vehicle weapons.

Can you point me to where it shows skills for the "various ship lasers" but not for the missiles?

Now that I have more time outside of the game I am running I realize the chart isn't listing skills it was the one on pg 230 that shows (light), (heavy) etc on the laser turrets. I think I was expecting the chat to show skill used like the one for regular weapons does and trying to figure out how the concussion missle worked mid combat.

It would be easier to understand if things were more in one place for missles and torpedoes instead of having to go back to the start of equipment to find the weapon qualities and figure out how they differ.

My players were also upset that there isn't really warning a missle just gets rolled and hits instantly if 1 success or more and in star wars there are countless examples of small ships dodging chasing missles. They should have had to knoww to prememtive spoof, the pilot cant even react and evasive maneuvers etc.

I wanted to make sure I was doing them correctly.

1 minute ago, Phantasym said:

My players were also upset that there isn't really warning a missle just gets rolled and hits instantly if 1 success or more and in star wars there are countless examples of small ships dodging chasing missles. They should have had to knoww to prememtive spoof, the pilot cant even react and evasive maneuvers etc.

I wanted to make sure I was doing them correctly.

In this case, it would be a matter of the missiles missing and then triggering Guided, or simply narrative since a round generally takes around a minute.

One simple houserule that might help solve your problem would be to make it take a round to get to the target, but I think it's fine as-is.

On 9/4/2020 at 9:30 AM, Phantasym said:

My players were also upset that there isn't really warning a missle just gets rolled and hits instantly if 1 success or more and in star wars there are countless examples of small ships dodging chasing missles. They should have had to knoww to prememtive spoof, the pilot cant even react and evasive maneuvers etc.

I wanted to make sure I was doing them correctly.

Are they scanning the other ship to know about their weaponry? That might be a reason they don't get warning. They aren't prepared because they AREN'T preparing. As for dodging missiles examples... Yep, that's the enemy rolling a failure with less than three advantage. It isn't based on player roll.

On 9/4/2020 at 6:33 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

IOne simple houserule that might help solve your problem would be to make it take a round to get to the target, but I think it's fine as-is.

Thinking out loud; Perhaps missiles could take some time reaching it's target depending on range?
Short RNG = torpedo hits instant OR "Guided" at the end of the current round
Medium RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn next round OR "Guided" at the end of the next round
Long RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn in 2 rounds OR "Guided" at the end of the 2nd round from now
Extreme RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn in 3 rounds OR "Guided" at the end of the 3rd round from now

Did that make sense? Of course, such a system would add some extra clutter and bookeeping to the game, which, frankly, this game doesn't need

40 minutes ago, angelman2 said:

Thinking out loud; Perhaps missiles could take some time reaching it's target depending on range?
Short RNG = torpedo hits instant OR "Guided" at the end of the current round
Medium RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn next round OR "Guided" at the end of the next round
Long RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn in 2 rounds OR "Guided" at the end of the 2nd round from now
Extreme RNG = torpedo hits at the start of the attackers turn in 3 rounds OR "Guided" at the end of the 3rd round from now

Did that make sense? Of course, such a system would add some extra clutter and bookeeping to the game, which, frankly, this game doesn't need

The main issue with delayed missile hits is that you are now asking the question of "How fast does it go?" and "Why can't I just outrun it?"

If it takes 3 rounds to get from Extreme to you, why can't you just bolt the other way in your speed 8 A-Wing and get hopelessly out of range?

Besides, they're limited to Short range anyway, main reason being fuel. Once it's out of fuel, it continues on with momentum but since it's slower than mass driver rounds or laser cannon fire, it's got pretty much no chance of hitting.

I think the rules are fine as-is, changing them like that would cause a multitude of issues and end up with some really crunchy rules.

You are absolutely right, of course (again). With several rounds until the missiles hit, you can easily (most of the time) double-maneuver your way away and eventually out of range (since the missile in my scheme technically takes 1 Move maneuver eavery turn and you can take 2 such maneuvers under most circumstances), which rather defies the entire point. Never mind me; I was thinking stupid thoughts out loud 😛

I guess the alternative could be "The missile WILL hit in X rounds. Regardless of your ship Location."

But still. It becomes crunchy.

Does "Dodge" works in vehicle combat?

It could be a way for the defender to affect the attack roll

23 minutes ago, Rimsen said:

Does "Dodge" works in vehicle combat?

It could be a way for the defender to affect the attack roll

No, per dev answered question.

There is the "Spoof" Missiles action in the Additional Starship & Vehicle Actions table of the various CRB's.

On 9/2/2020 at 2:22 PM, Phantasym said:

What roll do you use to attack? the chart in the EoE core book shows gunnery for various ship lasers but no skill for the missles. I wondered if they might auto hit but then read the guided and it talked about if the attack roll missed. Do you need to lock on first somehow? Does it take time to reach a target based on distance?

I was not even sure how to start the missle attack what roll to make, how fast the missle got there. The only thing clear was that you could activate guided if missed and enough advantages were rolled.

A bit late to the party here, but combat is intentionally simplified in this system. Every attack, regardless of if it's a gun, sword, grenade, or missile, is always a single attack roll that resolves to damage rating + number of successes. If you want anything more than that, you either need to use house rules or a different system entirely.

On 9/8/2020 at 10:55 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The main issue with delayed missile hits is that you are now asking the question of "How fast does it go?" and "Why can't I just outrun it?"

If it takes 3 rounds to get from Extreme to you, why can't you just bolt the other way in your speed 8 A-Wing and get hopelessly out of range?

Besides, they're limited to Short range anyway, main reason being fuel. Once it's out of fuel, it continues on with momentum but since it's slower than mass driver rounds or laser cannon fire, it's got pretty much no chance of hitting.

I think the rules are fine as-is, changing them like that would cause a multitude of issues and end up with some really crunchy rules.

Spicy counter-argument.

Coming from a family of pilots, and working in the aerospace industry, it may surprise you to find out that the determining factor of missile range is actually the targeting system as much as the fuel, and the only determining factor the fuel plays is because of the kinetic energy required for atmospheric flight - in space it would be an entirely different story.

The "short" range of missile could arguably be determined by the maximum range of the targeting computer. Since most starfighters have a sensor range of "Close," it must be assumed that to get a lock the targeting computer uses the missiles tracking to engage (which is usually a considerable percentage of the weapons total size). Fuel concerns in a vacuum are minor - and if range were determined by fuel then there would need to be 2 ranges - 1 atmospheric, 1 in vacuum, as the fuel needed to get a missile to short range in atmosphere would allow a missile in vacuum to travel far longer. Also, the rules for guided would then address the fuel load by limiting the number of subsequent attacks that could benefit from the ability, but it does not, merely stating "the Guided effect can activate on subsequent attacks, representing the projectile continuing to track the target" ("Guided (Active)" paragraph 2, FnD pg 163). All these things point to the sensors determining range, as opposed to fuel load, which makes sense since in vacuum fuel would only be used to change direction once optimal speed is achieved.

As for the record-keeping, thanks to Guided there is already more record-keeping than usual for missiles. It wouldn't be hard to track a rule like "the missile moves 1 range band closer to the target automatically each round on the initiative step it was fired in until it moves beyond 'Close' at which point it strikes it's target." This can be supported by saying that the fuel is used to automatically exceed the tracked target's speed, and since even in vacuum a Silhouette 0 missile requires far less energy to accelerate than even a Silhouette 1 "speed demon" starfighter, it just means that it goes from Short -> Close -> Boom without the "outrun argument" being applicable. Fire from Close range, you fire and hit on the same initiative, fire from as far as your targeting computer can track, it hits next round, if it misses either way it starts tracking, hitting once it succeeds or the target finds a narrative way to get rid of it. The rules already preculde the option of a fighter "outrunning" a missile using the Guided rule by simply not stating the missile "makes 1 maneuver and 1 action" and merely making it another attack roll straight away. We can then infer that the speed of the missile is undefeatable due to mass/acceleration energy requirements.

You could also insert a house rule that covers the fuel concern (and the unending Guided checks) by saying that a missile/torpedo has 5 rounds of "fuel" that it can use to strike it's target before it just "floats forever" in it's final trajectory (or explodes due to an internal fuse and conform to interstellar weapon regulations). This also allows for the "dumb-firing" of missiles and torpedoes at extreme range by not relying on the targeting computer. Under this rule, you could "dumb-fire" the missile even from extreme range at a target, but it would be a straight "kinetic" shot, removing the Guided special quality from the weapon but allowing you to launch it beyond the "Short" range of the targeting computer. It would then fly for 5 rounds to the intended target at up to "Extreme" range (Extreme->Long->Medium->Short->Close->Boom) and only the initial roll matters. If you launch from Medium to Extreme, fine, you just lose out on the extra rounds of Guided Strikes it would normally get, but it may pay off (especially against capital ships). This attack would most likely increase the difficulty of the attack once for each range band to the target (since you are literally using the ship's "nose" to line up the shot). In this way, it's "win big/lose big" and would generally be done only against much larger targets (like capital ships). It also then allows for capital ships to pound each other with missiles at more "line battle appropriate" ranges.