22 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I keep also thinking about Dedicated in this list (does it fit? Is Dedicated or Wolfpack better?). My gut is that Warthog is the prime first target, and using Dedicated for some rerolls seems beneficial.

However, it seems like a great punchy beef list either way.

I guess there is likely value to it - I think it would be better in the event you add a Jedi. I've tried adding targeting synchronizer, but I'm unconvinced by it if it's not powering munitions.

Wolfpack is bonkers good though ... even if you 'only' get one lock a turn out of it, if it's on an Arc, that is still then 3x3dice gun ships shooting with 2+ rerolls (and probably a focus) on their attacks at i3.

11 hours ago, Spitty81 said:

Weren't you suggesting that the potency of an ability determines value?

Yes indeed. That's exactly why Jag shouldn't be the most expensive. Currently 48 points, there's no way he needs to be nerfed to 51.

You messed up Warthog before, is it possible you don't recall who Jag is? He's the I3 without a Talent slot who gains a Lock after someone else is attacked. I've flown him, he's not bad. He's not better than Wolffe or Sinker . Oddball I think might still be a hair better due to the contributions of i5

The clear order in ARC power is Sinker > Wolffe > Oddball ~ Jag.

29 minutes ago, Rich P said:

I've tried adding targeting synchronizer, but I'm unconvinced by it if it's not powering munitions.

I like Synchronized Console on Jedi. It's pretty handy to shuffle locks around when you have Force charges, but in a list where you've already got rerolls from the LAAT but don't run munitions, I think you're totally right you wouldn't want it.

29 minutes ago, Rich P said:

Wolfpack is bonkers good though ... even if you 'only' get one lock a turn out of it, if it's on an Arc, that is still then 3x3dice gun ships shooting with 2+ rerolls (and probably a focus) on their attacks at i3.

My worry is the opponent just attacks Warthog, and there I don't think the Strain-for-Lock is worthwhile. I can see Wolfpack being easily better, though.

Just seems worth thinking about Dedicated. Maybe it doesn't actually trigger that often, based on geometry, and wanting to keep Warthog somewhere other than the side of an ARC. While defensive, Dedicated just seems more under my own control, rather than an opponent's.

But yeah, those locks would be really strong when they work.

I like the idea of Wolfpack Plo and Sync on Warthog with a couple of Squad Sevens, (HS). Just smash them up in there.

If you go extended, you can drop.to 104ths and squeeze a configless Lumi in with 2pt spare.... much damage mitigation.

For HS, you only get 41 left, after applying 3x Sync, but you could obviously play around with it a bit. Could keep the ARCs close and drop their Sync, share the Plo around.

I just put a Bravo Flight Officer in with R3 and APT for a giggle.

21 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

My worry is the opponent just attacks Warthog, and there I don't think the Strain-for-Lock is worthwhile. I can see Wolfpack being easily better, though.

Just seems worth thinking about Dedicated. Maybe it doesn't actually trigger that often, based on geometry, and wanting to keep Warthog somewhere other than the side of an ARC. While defensive, Dedicated just seems more under my own control, rather than an opponent's.

I agree - absolutely it's worth considering.

I think if people are trying to burn down Warthog, that's ok. He lasts 2-3 turns, (assuming you reinforce at the right moment) and gets target locks for free to power his attacks, and that leaves your heavy hitting Arcs unmolested and punching hard. I think all of these lists, like any 'alpha' list are dependent on a good first engage. I have had 4 games with Warthog & 3 Arcs, won 3, lost 1. The 1 game I have lost was on a turn where on first engage, I made a bad choice, and got nothing in Warthog's arc, he melted, no rerolls for the arcs, everything was awful.

Get that first engage right and you get ahead in the damage race to a point where your opponent might struggle to get it back. Get it wrong, and it is you who is screwed.

DO I WANT... a LAAT/i expansion pack?

https://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2020/10/do-i-want-laati-gunship-expansion-pack.html

8 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

DO I WANT... a LAAT/i expansion pack?

https://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2020/10/do-i-want-laati-gunship-expansion-pack.html

could you go over the math on why you think the rerolls are worth the 13 points?

And how do you feel about this ship vs the Arc which is 9 points cheaper with a great gun?

9 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

DO I WANT... a LAAT/i expansion pack?

https://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2020/10/do-i-want-laati-gunship-expansion-pack.html

On the Bistan vs Ghost Company thing, it's not power creep at all. It's an instance of FFG realising that faction context is important.

One of those two cards is able to be put on a 4-attack, i5, obstacle ignoring monster, while the other is stuck on 2-attack, low intitiative, clumsy support ships. Significant price difference is to be expected.

23 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

On the Bistan vs Ghost Company thing, it's not power creep at all. It's an instance of FFG realising that faction context is important.

One of those two cards is able to be put on a 4-attack, i5, obstacle ignoring monster, while the other is stuck on 2-attack, low intitiative, clumsy support ships. Significant price difference is to be expected.

Realistically, Ghost Company should be the same or a point or two more expensive than Bistan, but both their cost should be scaled on the highest attack value turret on the ship. K-Wings should be able to Bistan for 5ish points, even if Dash and Han are paying something like current prices. It also future-proofs Ghost Company if we ever see a 3-dice turret for Republic.

So I flew 7th fleet gunner LaaT with Arc/Ric/Plo and it was a completely different kettle of fish.

Ric with rerolls on his shots where the ability procs is a terror. 7th Fleet gunner plus 2 rerolls and a focus, and still leaving an evade token for defence.

Similar with Plo and CLT - suddenly punching 5 dice at range 1 with rerolls and focus/force is amazing. And having Plo be able to pull the disarm token off the LaaT if necessary depending on who has the better shot really helps to keep the damage ticking over.

On a separate note - I've noticed that opponents are now starting to ignore the LaaT in the early engages - opting to try to take the Arcs off the board (The LaaT has no end game is the obvious reason) Not sure if it's the right strategy but rather than chain ganking the support ship, people are starting to ignore it.

15 minutes ago, Rich P said:

On a separate note - I've noticed that opponents are now starting to ignore the LaaT in the early engages - opting to try to take the Arcs off the board (The LaaT has no end game is the obvious reason) Not sure if it's the right strategy but rather than chain ganking the support ship, people are starting to ignore it.

I do this fairly regularly, depending on how they offer it. Often, people don't want their support ship in the thick, getting destroyed early. With a bit of hedging around, you can afford to just ignore it and face up the things they're attempting to gank you with. If those things are going to.be shooting you anyway, make em pay for it.

One of the reasons I like the LAAT plus 3 is that you can make that work for you either way.

38 minutes ago, Rich P said:

Ric with rerolls on his shots where the ability procs is a terror.

Sorry for the digression: procs?

Thanks. 😎 🍺

3 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Sorry for the digression: procs?

Thanks. 😎 🍺

It's old MMO terminology for Programmed Random OCcurance ... basically when your special ability activates ... so Ric's ability 'procs' when he goes faster than the enemy ship

2 hours ago, Spinland said:

Sorry for the digression: procs?

Thanks. 😎 🍺

2 hours ago, Rich P said:

It's old MMO terminology for Programmed Random OCcurance ... basically when your special ability activates ... so Ric's ability 'procs' when he goes faster than the enemy ship

I'd thought it was from "process." Under some circumstance, a different process for handling something--such as an attack--occurs.

I think Programmed Random Occurrence is a backronym created later. Googling around to try to jog my memory, I've seen it said that the origin was a line in code "spec_proc" in some old MUDS but the term became more widespread due to it's use in Everquest.

On 10/13/2020 at 5:06 AM, Spinland said:

Sorry for the digression: procs?

Thanks. 😎 🍺

I have "procs" terminology stuck in my head. I need to remember to say "triggers" when in a non-MMO context.

15 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I have "procs" terminology stuck in my head. I need to remember to say "triggers" when in a non-MMO context.

Heh. I reckon I predate MMOs by just a bit. My only gaming console was an Intellivision. 😎 🍺

39 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Heh. I reckon I predate MMOs by just a bit. My only gaming console was an Intellivision. 😎 🍺

My first console was a SNES... but my first handheld was Mario's Cement Factory.

I have proc and trigger as leftovers from my M:tg days. Never knew it had anything to do with software. I had assumed proc was short for a procreate effect Lol.

But I also had an intelivision way back as a youngling.

10 hours ago, Spinland said:

Heh. I reckon I predate MMOs by just a bit. My only gaming console was an Intellivision. 😎 🍺

2600 upgraded to a Sega Genesis. Then no more.

22 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I have proc and trigger as leftovers from my M:tg days. Never knew it had anything to do with software. I had assumed proc was short for a procreate effect Lol.

But I also had an intelivision way back as a youngling.

Back in my day, we had imagination and legos! (jk)

21 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

2600 upgraded to a Sega Genesis. Then no more.

I got the IntelliVoice module for mine. In the early 80s, while in the USAF, some of my crewmates and I would gather at my place for marathon games of B-17 Bomber. Two man teams, one would fly and do the bombing and the other would take over the guns when attacked. The team who just finished a bombing mission got to pick the target the next team would have to go after. Of course the suds flowed freely. Fun times.

12 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Back in my day, we had imagination and legos! (jk)

I still have an obtuse amount of Legos lol. 😂

5 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

I still have an obtuse amount of Legos lol. 😂

Best thing about having kids is that you get to legitimately buy lego for them too ... then 'help' them build it

2 hours ago, Rich P said:

Best thing about having kids is that you get to legitimately buy lego for them too ... then 'help' them build it

Honey the SW Lego is not for me, its just a continuation of my childhood collection our kid now gets to continue.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I still have an obtuse amount of Legos lol. 😂

Same team.

Those moments when I attempt to explain to my boys that this new Lego Unkar Plutt is not a toy and I don't want to find him under the settee with a Ninjago head replacement and Tony Starks pants on.....

And while we're on the subject, why do we now only have 2 and a half Geonosis Clones? I can't run this new squad on 2 and a half Clones!