Hello there,

the card effect of Profundity allows to set aside a small ship (Command 1). It allows so: "Before deploying fleets, ..." If this ship is the flagship the player normally wouldn't deploy his/her flagship during setup.

The second player could have "Surprise Attack" as one of his/her objectives. Objective Card says: "While deploying fleets, the first player must deploy their flagship before deploying any other ships."

Now we discussed what would happen if the first player would choose to play "Surprise Attack".

FAQ states: "Ships and squadrons that are set aside are only affected by the ability or card effect that set them aside. They cannot be deployed by a different card effect than the one that set it aside." ... "A set-aside ship can only be assigned tokens or chosen as an objective ship before being set aside (by Blockade Run or Intel Sweep, for example) those tokens or effects are not removed when the ship is set aside."

A) Objective overrules upgrade: Objectives are chosen before deployment. First player cannot set aside his flagship. He/She must deploy the flagship first.

B) Upgrade overrules objective: The set-aside flagship is not affected by the objective card. The first player deploys another ship first.

C) Autoloss: The set aside ship cannot be deployed. First player cannot legally deploy and looses automatically. (That could easily be avoided though.)

What's your judgement?

5 hours ago, Triangular said:

Hello there,

the card effect of Profundity allows to set aside a small ship (Command 1). It allows so: "Before deploying fleets, ..." If this ship is the flagship the player normally wouldn't deploy his/her flagship during setup.

The second player could have "Surprise Attack" as one of his/her objectives. Objective Card says: "While deploying fleets, the first player must deploy their flagship before deploying any other ships."

Now we discussed what would happen if the first player would choose to play "Surprise Attack".

FAQ states: "Ships and squadrons that are set aside are only affected by the ability or card effect that set them aside. They cannot be deployed by a different card effect than the one that set it aside." ... "A set-aside ship can only be assigned tokens or chosen as an objective ship before being set aside (by Blockade Run or Intel Sweep, for example) those tokens or effects are not removed when the ship is set aside."

A) Objective overrules upgrade: Objectives are chosen before deployment. First player cannot set aside his flagship. He/She must deploy the flagship first.

B) Upgrade overrules objective: The set-aside flagship is not affected by the objective card. The first player deploys another ship first.

C) Autoloss: The set aside ship cannot be deployed. First player cannot legally deploy and looses automatically. (That could easily be avoided though.)

What's your judgement?

My question is why is the commander on the ship set aside by profundity to begin with? Since profundity let’s you transfer the commander from Profundity to the set aside ship when the set aside ship deploys, I don’t see a situation where the commander would be set aside to begin with.

B. Profundity takes place "Before deploying fleets" and Surprise Attack takes place "While deploying fleets". So when the effect of Surprise Attack comes into play, you check for the first player's flagship and isn't anywhere to be found so you should move on.

I’d tenuously say upgrade overrules objective.

We know the flagship is set aside by Profundity before Surprise Attack triggers, and is therefore not affected by any “abilities or card effects.” The explicit rules we do have indicate set aside ships ignore objective special rules where applicable, e.g. Opening Salvo.

1 hour ago, bkcammack said:

My question is why is the commander on the ship set aside by profundity to begin with? Since profundity let’s you transfer the commander from Profundity to the set aside ship when the set aside ship deploys, I don’t see a situation where the commander would be set aside to begin with.

Because one of his own objective cards is Hyperspace Assault. Nevertheless the question for the rules forum isn‘t why but: what if

10 hours ago, Triangular said:

Hello there,

the card effect of Profundity allows to set aside a small ship (Command 1). It allows so: "Before deploying fleets, ..." If this ship is the flagship the player normally wouldn't deploy his/her flagship during setup.

The second player could have "Surprise Attack" as one of his/her objectives. Objective Card says: "While deploying fleets, the first player must deploy their flagship before deploying any other ships."

Now we discussed what would happen if the first player would choose to play "Surprise Attack".

FAQ states: "Ships and squadrons that are set aside are only affected by the ability or card effect that set them aside. They cannot be deployed by a different card effect than the one that set it aside." ... "A set-aside ship can only be assigned tokens or chosen as an objective ship before being set aside (by Blockade Run or Intel Sweep, for example) those tokens or effects are not removed when the ship is set aside."

A) Objective overrules upgrade: Objectives are chosen before deployment. First player cannot set aside his flagship. He/She must deploy the flagship first.

B) Upgrade overrules objective: The set-aside flagship is not affected by the objective card. The first player deploys another ship first.

C) Autoloss: The set aside ship cannot be deployed. First player cannot legally deploy and looses automatically. (That could easily be avoided though.)

What's your judgement?

The question is about timing, and when effects from either an upgrade card or objective come into effect in the appropriate timing window.

The "effect" of the objective card (Surprise Attack), having the flagship deploy first, only has one timing window. In "deployment", specifically, in the "while deploying fleets" timing step.
The "effect" of Profundity only has one timing window for when to set aside a ship, and that is before "deployment", specifically, in the "before deploying fleets" timing step.

As mentioned, if a Commander is on a small command 1 ship, in the "Before Deploying fleets" timing, the flagship can be set aside by Profundity. It was set aside before the players reached the "deployment" step of the game.

Since the flagship is set aside and no longer in play, it cannot be placed as the first ship.

Thus when reaching the "while deploying fleets" timing step, players check to see where the first player flagship is in order to follow the directions given by Surprise Attack. But the Flagship is not in play, thus the directions regarding the first player flagship is discarded, but the rest of the objectives wording is followed and the game continues as normal.

I agree.

Set aside ships can’t be the objective ship in Advanced Gunnery or Most wanted so the mission doesn’t override the Profundity upgrade (or Raddus in these two missions).

A Raider flagship with Corvus title is effected by Surprise Attack, deploying on the Station but then the Corvus upgrade kicks in at a later point in Deployment and overrides the mission.