On 9/3/2020 at 6:35 AM, Shrike said:

I'd really like to see the dodge token mechanic dropped from Deflect. It's never felt right to me. I think Deflect should be an always active ability. If it proved to be too powerful, then just tweak it to only kick in if the attacking unit is within range 2 or something.

If there's ever a second edition of the game I hope they rework Deflect to make it independent of tokens.

I think they deliberately tied it to a token to give players shooting at a Jedi some counter play. As it is now the Jedi character has to strategically advance keeping initiative and command cards in mind. If it was always on then killing a Jedi would just boil down to good or bad dice rolls and not player strategy and choice.

3 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think they deliberately tied it to a token to give players shooting at a Jedi some counter play. As it is now the Jedi character has to strategically advance keeping initiative and command cards in mind. If it was always on then killing a Jedi would just boil down to good or bad dice rolls and not player strategy and choice.

This this right here is exactly y I think we shouldnt change deflect. Its good as is.

11 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think they deliberately tied it to a token to give players shooting at a Jedi some counter play. As it is now the Jedi character has to strategically advance keeping initiative and command cards in mind. If it was always on then killing a Jedi would just boil down to good or bad dice rolls and not player strategy and choice.

I dont think deflect should be on all the time for all jedi. But I do think it should be on all the time for Vader. Vader is so offensively inept because of his lack of speed and having deflect up all the time would give him a much needed boost to his offense and defense.

At the very least Vader should get defensive surge all the time but still have to spend a dodge token to activate deflect.

Vader is way too easy to take down with shooting because of how slow he is and he really should have a 2/3 saving throw. It would make him feel more like the unstoppable juggernaut hes supposed to be.

15 hours ago, Khobai said:

I dont think deflect should be on all the time for all jedi. But I do think it should be on all the time for Vader. Vader is so offensively inept because of his lack of speed and having deflect up all the time would give him a much needed boost to his offense and defense.

At the very least Vader should get defensive surge all the time but still have to spend a dodge token to activate deflect.

Vader is way too easy to take down with shooting because of how slow he is and he really should have a 2/3 saving throw. It would make him feel more like the unstoppable juggernaut hes supposed to be.

Maybe Deflect would work best as an exhaustible force upgrade card? It would remove all the faffing about with dodge tokens but would still be a limited use ability so shooters would have counter play opertunities. It might also shave a few points off force users if it wasn't an automatic keyword on their unit card.

As for Vader, he's in a bad place at the moment and definitely needs a boost. I agree that giving him defensive surge would be thematic and useful. In fact I've advocated exactly that on other threads before. The other simple boost I'd consider giving him is a additional force upgrade slot. That would compensate for the virtually mandatory loss of one slot to Saber Throw.

49 minutes ago, Shrike said:

Maybe Deflect would work best as an exhaustible force upgrade card? It would remove all the faffing about with dodge tokens but would still be a limited use ability so shooters would have counter play opertunities. It might also shave a few points off force users if it wasn't an automatic keyword on their unit card.

As for Vader, he's in a bad place at the moment and definitely needs a boost. I agree that giving him defensive surge would be thematic and useful. In fact I've advocated exactly that on other threads before. The other simple boost I'd consider giving him is a additional force upgrade slot. That would compensate for the virtually mandatory loss of one slot to Saber Throw.

I don't see how that is much better than force reflexes to be honest, other than the fact all force users could take deflect then, including Palpatine. At the moment it works best as a keyword, because Force Reflexes always gives you that option to tap for 1 free deflect chance and it will help cancel a regular hit, plus anyone with Master of the Force will get it every round, until they are close enough to use their other powers. If the idea is to buff Vader his play style isn't changing at all from this.

In fact all you've done is now give Palpatine a chance to deflect as well.

The main problem I have with deflect is that it makes force reflexes compulsory on every jedi

I dont think any force power should be compulsory because all that does is reduce the number of available options each character has

for example vader's force powers are all preselected for him and he has zero options whatsoever. its hard for vader to even take choke which doesnt make a whole lot of sense since its his signature move.

I definitely think activating deflect should be completely disconnected with spending dodge tokens in order to make force reflexes less compulsory.

I also dont think deflect should always be turned on either. At least not for every jedi.

Ive thought about this a bit and I definitely think there should be something like force points added to the game where jedi can spend force points to activate certain keywords like deflect and master of the force.

So for example say Vader got 3 force points a turn. He could use 2 force points to activate deflect twice. Then use the remaining force point to ready one of his force powers with master of the force 1 (which would let you spend X force points to ready X force powers). I suppose you could also allow force points to be spent to buy surge tokens too.

39 minutes ago, Khobai said:

The main problem I have with deflect is that it makes force reflexes compulsory on every jedi

I dont think any force power should be compulsory because all that does is reduce the number of available options each character has

for example vader's force powers are all preselected for him and he has zero options whatsoever. its hard for vader to even take choke which doesnt make a whole lot of sense since its his signature move.

I definitely think activating deflect should be completely disconnected with spending dodge tokens in order to make force reflexes less compulsory.

I also dont think deflect should always be turned on either. At least not for every jedi.

Ive thought about this a bit and I definitely think there should be something like force points added to the game where jedi can spend force points to activate certain keywords like deflect and master of the force.

So for example say Vader got 3 force points a turn. He could use 2 force points to activate deflect twice. Then use the remaining force point to ready one of his force powers with master of the force 1 (which would let you spend X force points to ready X force powers). I suppose you could also allow force points to be spent to buy surge tokens too.

I dont think its compulsory on every Jedi. Commander Luke can often get by without it by using the free dodges from his command cards. I generally dont run it on Palpatine since he doesn't use deflect. And I've seen a lot of people skip it on Dooku as well. I agree that its a shame commander Vader is pretty much set in stone for his build. They should have built a ranged attack into him from the start. Luckily operative vader has options.

45 minutes ago, Khobai said:

The main problem I have with deflect is that it makes force reflexes compulsory on every jedi

I dont think any force power should be compulsory because all that does is reduce the number of available options each character has

for example vader's force powers are all preselected for him and he has zero options whatsoever. its hard for vader to even take choke which doesnt make a whole lot of sense since its his signature move.

I definitely think activating deflect should be completely disconnected with spending dodge tokens in order to make force reflexes less compulsory.

I also dont think deflect should always be turned on either. At least not for every jedi.

Ive thought about this a bit and I definitely think there should be something like force points added to the game where jedi can spend force points to activate certain keywords like deflect and master of the force.

So for example say Vader got 3 force points a turn. He could use 2 force points to activate deflect twice. Then use the remaining force point to ready one of his force powers with master of the force 1 (which would let you spend X force points to ready X force powers). I suppose you could also allow force points to be spent to buy surge tokens too.

I think the fact Defensive/Offensive stance aren't Force Upgrades, are a sign that they are meant to work with Force Reflexes not replace it. So it becomes easier for your Force wielders to stack up Dodge Tokens. What you are referring to with these force points is a reverse version of Master of the Force.

They don't want Force wielders to be able to infinitely tap their force powers, that would bring in a lot of broken combos, so you can do force reflexes once per turn, which I think is balanced and fair. Then if your have Master of the Force X you are getting it back for next turn, bare in mind some Jedi characters will be more Commander Luke tier of Force user, and won't even get Master of the Force, I'm thinking any Padawan characters here.

The issue is you try to smash a fix into it to fix characters like Vader (who I personally don't think actually needs fixing), and you are going to make characters like OP Luke and probably Maul/Anakin completely unstoppable.

OP Vader has fixed a lot of these problems, and I know people want to use the Commander version, but OP Vader was a retroactive buff to old Vader as well. Darkness Descend and Fear and Dead Men, are amazing on both versions of Vader, and get around his biggest weaknesses. Personally I play Rebels, and come up against Vaders a fair bit, both versions, and I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as what is being said here. He can claim most objectives solo, because people either run away from him or get slaughtered by him, give him some ranged support with some troopers, and the opponent is stuck thinking "Do I run away abandoning cover to get away from Vader, or to I stay here to get the cover bonus for all the ranged shots coming at me".

Vader doesn't get to just run in and slash people up like OP Luke does, but he does provide a big threat to the board that is eating enemy activations turn after turn, or he is enclosing in on them to get ready to wipe out some units.

i use force reflexes on palpatine because it keeps royal guards alive since every dodge palpatine uses is one less hit they have to take for him.

also if palpatine doesnt take two exhaust powers his master of the force 2 gets wasted. so if you want to maximize your use of master of the force 2 than force reflexes is a no brainer on palpatine.

if im paying points for master of the force 2 im going to make sure I use it.

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They don't want Force wielders to be able to infinitely tap their force powers, that would bring in a lot of broken combos, so you can do force reflexes once per turn, which I think is balanced and fair. Then if your have Master of the Force X you are getting it back for next turn, bare in mind some Jedi characters will be more Commander Luke tier of Force user, and won't even get Master of the Force, I'm thinking any Padawan characters here.

Huh? you wouldnt be able to infinitely tap your force powers

You would still have to pay a force point in order to activate master of the force at the end of the activation or use a recover action to untap your force powers.

force points would let you disconnect abilities like deflect from having to use dodge tokens and replace it with a force point system instead which is much more flexible and intuitive IMO. It would also allow all jedi to have access to generic force abilities/powers they could spend force points on.

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OP Vader was a retroactive buff to old Vader as well.

OP Vader is still bad though. They made him way a worse version of operative Luke. Which makes no sense because RoTJ Vader woudlve easily beaten RotJ Luke if Vader wasnt morally conflicted about killing his own son. But characters having moral quandaries shouldnt factor into Legion so OP Vader should be way stronger than OP Luke.

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Vader doesn't get to just run in and slash people up like OP Luke does, but he does provide a big threat to the board that is eating enemy activations turn after turn, or he is enclosing in on them to get ready to wipe out some units.

The problem is OP Vader does NOTHING better than OP Luke does. Hes just worse than OP Luke.

Vader didnt need a cheaper version that was worse. He needed an expensive version that was better.

Thats why both versions of Vader feel like complete pushovers.

5 minutes ago, Khobai said:

i use reflexes on palpatine because it keeps royal guards alive.

also if palpatine doesnt take two exhaust powers his master of the force 2 gets wasted.

I rarely see a Palpatine take any exhaustible force powers. He has Master of the Force 2 because he should as a character, and maybe in the future they will release an upgrade that works well on him. But Palpatine works a lot better at the back, the three upgrades I usually see on him are.

1. Anger

2. Battle Meditation

3. Fear

Those three work into how Palpatine plays as a piece, better than any of the exhaustible powers.

2 hours ago, Nithorian said:

I rarely see a Palpatine take any exhaustible force powers. He has Master of the Force 2 because he should as a character, and maybe in the future they will release an upgrade that works well on him. But Palpatine works a lot better at the back, the three upgrades I usually see on him are.

1. Anger

2. Battle Meditation

3. Fear

Those three work into how Palpatine plays as a piece, better than any of the exhaustible powers.

Then youre completely wasting master of the force 2. Not using an ability you pay for isnt efficient. I play palpatine with reflexes, guidance, anger and aggressive tactics. I use him to hand out tons of surge tokens to my shoretroopers each turn. Since the shoretroopers dont naturally surge they work great with palpatine.

Battle meditation definitely isnt needed on palpatine when your list has full activation control every turn. Fear also isnt needed on palpatine either. I just use lots of shore troopers and entourage royal guard and gideon hask to coordinate to get full activation control of my army. Palpatine hands out 5-6 surge tokens a turn usually. And I can pile on suppression with the two mortars. Bossk is also really good with palpatine as his pulling the strings target because you can pile on tons of suppression.

There isnt just one way to play palpatine. Thats one of the things I like about him. I do think his points cost is a little too high though.

Unlike cmdr vader whos locked into only being able to play one way which sucks. Between vader needing to take force push because hes slow and take force reflexes for deflect and saber throw because he doesnt have his own ranged attack he really doesnt get any force slots left for options. Hes doesnt even get a command or training slot either which I dont get.

How are you giving 5-6 surge tokens per turn with Palpatine?

19 hours ago, Khobai said:

Thats why both versions of Vader feel like complete pushovers.

I said it once before and I'll say it again. Have you considered that maybe you just need to "git gud" with Vader? He's really not that bad with his new cards. I think you might be playing him wrong becuase it sounds like you are letting him get shot at a lot. And probably not deploying him in the right spots.

2 hours ago, costi said:

How are you giving 5-6 surge tokens per turn with Palpatine?

Aggressive Tactics and Force Guidance, I assume. 5-6 is obviously an exaggeration. On most turns it's probably more like 3-4.

On 9/5/2020 at 10:52 PM, Nithorian said:

I don't see how that is much better than force reflexes to be honest, other than the fact all force users could take deflect then, including Palpatine. At the moment it works best as a keyword, because Force Reflexes always gives you that option to tap for 1 free deflect chance and it will help cancel a regular hit, plus anyone with Master of the Force will get it every round, until they are close enough to use their other powers. If the idea is to buff Vader his play style isn't changing at all from this.

In fact all you've done is now give Palpatine a chance to deflect as well.

The idea of making Deflect a force upgrade is that then it'd be a self contained/independant ability. I think it'd be a cleaner way of implementing things.

For clarity I'd suggest having a Deflect force upgrade work something like this:

Force upgrade card, Restricted to units with lightsabers only. Exhaustable. When defending, against this attack you gain surge to block; if it's a ranged attack, the attacker suffers 1 wound for each surge rolled. The wording probably isn't perfect but hopefully you get the drift. This would work better than the current set up as you wouldn't have to prime the ability on the off chance it'd be needed. You'd just tap it when you actually needed it instead.

As for Vader, my musings on Deflect weren't specifically intended to buff him. For that I suggested giving him surge to defence on his unit card. That'd perminently boost his chance of successfully saving by 33%. That'd be an appreciable boost to his defence which would help offset his limited speed.

1 hour ago, Shrike said:

The idea of making Deflect a force upgrade is that then it'd be a self contained/independant ability. I think it'd be a cleaner way of implementing things.

For clarity I'd suggest having a Deflect force upgrade work something like this:

Force upgrade card, Restricted to units with lightsabers only. Exhaustable. When defending, against this attack you gain surge to block; if it's a ranged attack, the attacker suffers 1 wound for each surge rolled. The wording probably isn't perfect but hopefully you get the drift. This would work better than the current set up as you wouldn't have to prime the ability on the off chance it'd be needed. You'd just tap it when you actually needed it instead.

As for Vader, my musings on Deflect weren't specifically intended to buff him. For that I suggested giving him surge to defence on his unit card. That'd perminently boost his chance of successfully saving by 33%. That'd be an appreciable boost to his defence which would help offset his limited speed.

That would be way less clean than what we have now and eat a force upgrade slot. You also then would have people arguing that just because he doesn't use a Lightsaber doesn't mean Palpatine doesn't have one etc.

It is better as a keyword, because they can decide who does and doesn't get it and that factors into their point cost. Grievous doesn't have it for example because without the force he can't predict blaster bolts and redirect them back at his enemies.

But all you've done with changing it to a force upgrade is eaten up the same slot that Force Reflexes takes on all the Lightsaber users, because they'd dump the dodge token to activate deflect, for an on tap deflect when they need it. You've also limited the amount of times deflect can be used in one turn, and basically ruined a lot of the command cards that already exist that give out dodge tokens to characters with deflect, with the clear purpose of them being to give those characters a lot of chances to deflect shots that turn.

56 minutes ago, Shrike said:

As for Vader, my musings on Deflect weren't specifically intended to buff him. For that I suggested giving him surge to defence on his unit card. That'd perminently boost his chance of successfully saving by 33%. That'd be an appreciable boost to his defence which would help offset his limited speed.

Can you walk me through the math there? I know I've gotten dice statistics wrong before, but I didn't think going from 1/2 (3/6) to 2/3 (4/6) was an improvement of 33% to the chance of saving...

30 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Can you walk me through the math there? I know I've gotten dice statistics wrong before, but I didn't think going from 1/2 (3/6) to 2/3 (4/6) was an improvement of 33% to the chance of saving...

I think what he's saying is that there are 3 "successful" dice faces on a straight red dice, and 4 "successful" dice faces on a red dice with surge. 3 --> 4 is 33% more.
In other words:
To change a 50% chance to save into a 66% chance to save, you increase it by 33% of 50%

3 minutes ago, Zagami said:

I think what he's saying is that there are 3 "successful" dice faces on a straight red dice, and 4 "successful" dice faces on a red dice with surge. 3 --> 4 is 33% more.
In other words:
To change a 50% chance to save into a 66% chance to save, you increase it by 33% of 50%

Got it. I (mistakenly) read it as improving the overall odds by 33%, which obviously isn't the case.

going from a 1/2 to 2/3 save would actually be a 50% increase in Vader's overall survivability. to get the approximate number of hits it takes to kill a model you take its health and divide it by the chance of failing its defense save.

if you take 8 wounds and divide them by a 1/2 chance of failing the saving throw you get 8/(1/2) = 16 (it normally takes about 16 hits to take down vader)

if you take 8 wounds and divide them by a 1/3 chance of failing the saving throw you get 8/(1/3) = 24 (with a 2/3 save it would take about 24 hits to take down vader)

of course thats assuming hes killed by a single attack pool and has no cover or dodge. his overall survivability increases even more if he has to be killed with multiple smaller attack pools and dodge/cover get applied to each of those attack pools.

1/2 -> 2/3 saving throw is a pretty substantial buff which is why I was concerned about giving it to all jedi. I think it would be fine for Vader though.

2 minutes ago, Khobai said:

going from a 1/2 to 2/3 save is about a 50% increase in overall survivability. to get the approximate number of hits it takes to kill a model you its health and divide it by the chance of failing its defense save.

if you take 8 wounds and divide them by a 1/2 chance of failing the saving throw you get 8/(1/2) = 16

if you take 8 wounds and divide them by a 1/3 chance of failing the saving throw you get 8/(1/3) = 24

That’s still only a 33% increase in survivability.. Your own math proves you wrong....

8 hours ago, Shadowhawk252 said:

That’s still only a 33% increase in survivability.. Your own math proves you wrong....

No the math checks out. Its definitely a 50% increase in how many approximate hits it takes to kill Vader

because 16 * 1.5 = 24. thats +50%.

a 33% increase would be 16 * 1.33 = approximately 21

If Vader had 7 wounds and not 8, and you gave him a 2/3 save, his survivability would only go up by about 33% then. because 7 / (1/3) = 21

So if you only wanted Vader to get a 33% increase then youd lower him to 7 wounds with the improved 2/3 save.

Also when a saving throw gets increased the effect gets multiplied by every wound the model has (since it gets to save each time its wounded). So the more wounds a model has the more of a survivability increase it gets from its saving throw being increased. So even though the difference between 1/2 and 2/3 seems relatively minor, the fact vader has 8 wounds multiplies that effect greatly. Essentially what that means is commander vader with 8 wounds gets more of a buff out of a 2/3 save than operative vader would with only 6 wounds.

Operative Vader should absolutely NOT be easier to kill than Sabine Wren. So Operative Vader should be at least 5 wounds with a 2/3 save. But I would argue 6 wounds with a 2/3 save is closer to where he actually should be at. He should definitely be harder to kill than some little girl playing at mandalorian.

Commander Vader certainly needs to be harder to kill than he currently is. So you could either make him 9 wounds with a 1/2 save or 7 wounds with a 2/3 save. I think the latter makes more sense so both Vaders would have a consistent 2/3 save. They also need to make saber throw not use up a force slot on Vader similar to how electrobinoculars dont use up a gear slot on B1s. That would open up some options for Vader for at least one of his force slots. The 2/3 save also means Vader no longer has to always take reflexes so it arguably frees up two of his force slots. That would give Vader some nice options to experiment with other force powers like choke and fear instead.

On 9/6/2020 at 7:37 PM, arnoldrew said:

Aggressive Tactics and Force Guidance, I assume. 5-6 is obviously an exaggeration. On most turns it's probably more like 3-4.

Yes I run aggressive tactics and force guidance on palpatine. Along with reflexes and anger. I dont like paying for master of the force 2 and then not using it. Palpatine is already overcosted so not using one of his abilities youre paying for on top of overpaying for him seems really bad to me.

5-6 surge tokens every turn was a slight exaggeration on my part. Its more like 5-6 surge tokens for 4 of the turns and 3-4 surge tokens for the 2 turns where palpatine can only activate himself. First turn you dont really need surge tokens anyway so its usually a good idea to play "give into your anger" first turn. And then the only other turn hes not giving away 5-6 surge tokens is the turn you play "and now you will die". I usually play "and now you will die" on turn 4 or 5 because it takes that long for Palp to get into position.

I have quite a bit of coordinate in the list (two units of shores plus gideon hask in a snowtrooper unit) along with the royal guard having entourage. So my list can get a good number of face up activations if you can activate Gideon Hask then coordinate to the Shores then coordinate to the Mortar. On any turn where palpatine can activate a corps units you can usually get 5-6 surge tokens.

Although surge tokens tend to be less useful in practice than on paper. Because being able to use them is entirely dependent on rolling surges. But you can certainly maximize your ability to use surge tokens by giving them to units like shoretroopers or royal guard that dont surge on offense or defense. Thats the principle the list is based on anyway.

The problem with Palpatine is that hes somewhat overcosted. Overcosted support characters tend not to work because they eat too much into the points of the army theyre meant to support. Thats why cheaper support characters like Veers work much better in practice. And I find Iden/Veers to be better at support than palpatine because they can have more of an effect on the early game. For palpatine to work better he needs some points shaved off his cost so the rest of his army doesnt feel like its as cramped into the list.

19 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Can you walk me through the math there? I know I've gotten dice statistics wrong before, but I didn't think going from 1/2 (3/6) to 2/3 (4/6) was an improvement of 33% to the chance of saving...

Sorry for any confusion caused by this. @Zagami 's explanation is correct. The chances of successfully saving are increased by 33% (or 1 third) on each defence die you roll.

Khobai's stuff on survivability is great but wasn't what I was referring to when I wrote "t hat'd permanently boost his chance of successfully saving by 33%".

15 hours ago, Khobai said:

1/2 -> 2/3 saving throw is a pretty substantial buff which is why I was concerned about giving it to all jedi. I think it would be fine for Vader though

Agreed. There are some Jedi it would probably be overpowered on but on commander Vader it might just give him the boost he needs.

On 9/6/2020 at 4:09 AM, Khobai said:

Between vader needing to take force push because hes slow and take force reflexes for deflect and saber throw because he doesnt have his own ranged attack he really doesnt get any force slots left for options. Hes doesnt even get a command or training slot either which I dont get.

I was puzzled by Vader's lack of a command upgrade slot too. I put it down to the fact he was a starter release and the designers wanted to keep him as simple as possible or they originally envisioned command slots being something for support type commanders rather than melee beatsticks. Turns out the thinking was probably more involved than that. Notorious Scoundrels podcast 13 (dated 18 August 2020) has an interview with Luke Eddy (one of the game's designers) which sheds some light on their way of thinking. In the podcast he discusses the fact that Anakin doesn't have any command upgrade slots on his unit card. Luke explains that Anakin doesn't really lead in a traditional way (comparatively speaking) and so he doesn't have command upgrade slots but instead relies on his command cards to reflect his command ability. I can see how the same logic would hold for Vader (New Ways to Motivate Them definitely fits this idea).

I'm not sure I totally agree with their logic but it's nice to know that their decisions aren't solely motivated by gameplay but also by the franchise's fluff, and a desire to accurately depict the essence of a character on the tabletop.

3 hours ago, Shrike said:

In the podcast he discusses the fact that Anakin doesn't have any command upgrade slots on his unit card. Luke explains that Anakin doesn't really lead in a traditional way (comparatively speaking) and so he doesn't have command upgrade slots but instead relies on his command cards to reflect his command ability. I can see how the same logic would hold for Vader (New Ways to Motivate Them definitely fits this idea).

Im actually fine with them using command cards that way. The problem is Vader's "new ways to motivate them" is a terrible command card. Its one of the few Vader cards I actually don't use because its so bad. Why does Vader have to damage his units for them to perform a free action when other commanders get command cards that let their units perform free actions without having to damage them? Its just straight up worse than the command cards other characters get. Yeah I get thats its thematic, but I expect it to do something extra if he damages his own units, and sadly it doesnt... It certainly doesnt make up for Vader not having a command or training slot.

And relentless/spur dont make up for the added vulnerability of being speed 1.

They definitely missed the mark with both versions of Vader. Both versions are way too easy to kill. Especially operative Vader. Why is he so fragile? Little girls like Sabine Wren and Luke are harder to kill than he is. Its a joke.

Vader shouldnt be slow and fragile. He should be slow and an unstoppable force of nature. Which is why they need to give both versions of Vader a 2/3 saving throw but probably also lower Commander Vader down to 7 wounds.

Other than that he just needs saber throw to not cost a force slot so he can take choke. Because choke is his signature move and he cant even use it because he has to take push, reflexes, and saber throw.

I can deal with him not having a command or training slot if they fix the other stuff.