This is more of an, "is this considered a proxy?" kind of question. I get that the Scum Falcon is a markedly different ship in that it comes with the second ship in the form of the escape pod, so using that model as a Resistance "Scavenged" or as a Rebel "Modified" might raise eyebrows...but what about the title models? Apart from the square/round antenna they appear to be the same model; is there cause for objection if one used the same model for both factions (Resistance or Rebels) in play, apart from FFG preferring I buy both?

I get that in casual play proxies are up to the players, just wondering how strict the distinctions get as you go up the food chain.

Thanks! 😎 🍺

I've not heard of anyone getting trouble for using a 'Rebel' Falcon as a 'Resistance' Falcon (or vice versa) at any major event.

I doubt a judge would side with a player objecting to someone using the 'wrong' Falcon model if all the other materials are correct given how small the difference is. As I see it, the rules as written are intended to make certain that a player can clearly ID all the ships in an opponent's list. If someone tried to argue that a square dish materially changes the profile of the ship and is an attempt to deceive them into thinking they were fighting a different faction, I would have to accuse them of arguing in bad faith.

Its all the same ship. Only thing to remember is that the Scum Falcon has a different dial. I can't imagine you get any flag for proxying with any of the falcons.

4 minutes ago, Dwing said:

Its all the same ship. Only thing to remember is that the Scum Falcon has a different dial. I can't imagine you get any flag for proxying with any of the falcons.

Thanks; just for completeness, I checked and the Resistance/Rebel Falcon dials are also slightly different. The ship gets a tiny bit less maneuverable in each iteration as it ages.

I've used a Resistance Falcon at official events, and nobody cared. Other than the paint, and the radar dish, it's the same ship. I've seen regular TIEs used as a Rebel TIE and vice-versa. As long as it does not cause any confusion (which it can't, as no faction has two different versions of the falcon), there won't be an issue.

Time for my usual hot take on this.

There's no such thing as a 'Resistance Falcon' model in 2e.

The Millennium Falcon model is in a weird, unique space. There were two models released in first edition: round dish and square dish. However, they both represented one ship in one faction. This is totally unique. Nowhere else in X-Wing does a single 'ship' as defined by rules and dial have two different, distinct models that can be used for it. It didn't matter what pilot card you used on it. You could put re-roll Han Solo on the square dish model or placement Han Solo on the round. Didn't matter, it was all one ship with an array of pilot cards.

2e complicated this. It split the pilots from 1e into two different factions, and gave each faction's version unique names, dials and action bars. However, only one of these has actually been released as a model plus pilot cards in 2e. The round dish model is allowed to be used for Rebel Millennium Falcon pilots. That's really all we know that's nailed on definite.

The Resistance pilots are only in the conversion kit, but what do they actually convert? The simple answer is that both the Rebel and Resistance Conversion Kits convert the first edition Millennium Falcon. But the first edition Millennium Falcon had two models. So, with no information to the contrary, one has to assume that either 'conversion' can be applied equally to both models.

What this means is that the Resistance Falcon pilots are kind of this floating entity. They've arguably converted something that didn't exist in 1e, because there was no Resistance Faction and no modified vs salvaged ship name distinction. There is no 1e Salvaged YT-1300 model that you can convert to 2e with these cards. So there is no 2e Resistance Falcon model. Kinda by default you have to 'borrow' the 1e YT-1300 model, but that model comes in two flavours. There is nothing to suggest preference either way, except at most the artwork on the cards.

This is a very roundabout way of saying that there is nothing in the rules to specifically state that one model or another belongs to a specific faction, and so should be allowed to be used interchangeably.

There should be zero problem using a square dish Falcon with the Rebels, or a round dish Falcon with Resistance because there is literally nothing in 2e's rules or language to indicate the models represent different things, and those models originally represented the same ship.

If we ever get a re-release of the Resistance Falcon that specifically has the square dish model, then you might get into a position where it's clearer that square dish is meant to be the Resistance version and round the Rebel because now there's a physical expansion pack tying each model to a faction.

11 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Thanks; just for completeness, I checked and the Resistance/Rebel Falcon dials are also slightly different. The ship gets a tiny bit less maneuverable in each iteration as it ages.

Ah I did not even know that, I never converted to Resistance 2.0 and have never looked at that falcon

Agree with all the above re: no difference. And will now add this to the pile: I'm a filthy casual. When I'm flying the Scum Falcon and I'm not using the Pod, I will use one of the "beat up" Falcons. Because theatrics matter; the Pod is obviously lost so they must have been through the Maw, right? So the Falcon can't look like Lando's fancified version. No one has complained yet, but I haven't tried this at a tournament with try-hards.

Just to be super trolly, build a scum list using the Rebel falcon, rebel Y-wings and z-95 models, as long as the cards are the correct ones, I see no problem.

34 minutes ago, Dwing said:

Just to be super trolly, build a scum list using the Rebel falcon, rebel Y-wings and z-95 models, as long as the cards are the correct ones, I see no problem.

Heh; funny you should mention that! I have two Y-Wing models en route: one is in the 1.0 Scum pack that comes with a pair of Z-95s, and the other is a used single model (minus the cardboard) I found that's probably a 1.0 Rebel model. If I run them as a pair, no matter which faction I run, one of them will be "out of place." 🙃

I have never seen anyone care which falcon model it is. I've used the Resistance falcon and Scum falcon to fly Rebel Han Solo in official events. Repaints are allowed so you could have your Rebel Falcon painted like a Scum falcon and it would be legal. As long as there is no confusion as to what kind of ship model it is.

The only people who might care are the wierdoes in the UK who had an issue with people flying a Resistance transport without the pod. Apparently is was too confusing for them. Having a differently shaped dish might make them go cross eyed and call for a judge.

10 hours ago, Dwing said:

Just to be super trolly, build a scum list using the Rebel falcon, rebel Y-wings and z-95 models, as long as the cards are the correct ones, I see no problem.

Technically not allowed per the tournament regulations (They are different ships in Second Edition so per the tourney regs the models are not permitted to be interchanged unlike Rebel and S&V Y-Wings, Rebel and S&V Z-95s, and non-S&V TIE/Lns), but I've not heard of anyone being dinged for running either of the 1st ed Rebel YT-1300s as either the Rebel or Resistance version. I haven't heard of anyone being dinged for running the 2E S&V YT-1300 as a Rebel or Resistance one either. Check if it is okay with whoever is running the tournament just to cover your *** though.

For a casual game, as long as the person you're playing with is fine with it then have at.

To add to this, outside the released models, the Falcon in the last movie has a round dish so...

Technically speaking the Multiple Faction Ship rule doesn't apply to this situation because all three YT-1300 ships are only single faction ships since they all have different titles. It is a nuanced technicality but it's there. What this rule IS talking about is ships with the same title in multiple factions e.g. Rebel/Scum Y-Wings and Z-95s and TIE l/n. It is only saying that you have to have cards and bases from the faction you are flying but can use the miniature or dial from the other faction (or both factions). Since this rule does not apply, we can use the following:

"Players are welcome and encouraged to personalize their squads according to the following rules"

The tournament regulations following the above quote only state you cannot modify your ship miniature in any way that would cause confusion about what ship the miniature represents .

Using a YT-1300 miniature with a rectangular dish to represent a YT-1300 miniature with a circular dish is no different than using a YT-1300 miniature that has been modified by having the dish removed all together or adding a second dish or cotton to represent smoke or some other modification. The YT-1300 ship is clearly being represented by the miniature. There is nothing confusing about what ship you are trying to fly if you put a YT-1300 miniature on the table that looks like a YT-1300 ship.

Anybody who tells you otherwise is trying too hard.

That being said, the tournament regulations document instructs you to ask a tournament marshal about component eligibility if there is a question. (There shouldn't be a question.)

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I think in principle I resonate strongly with that last post from @Skitch_ about the rule really just aims to avoid confusion about which ship is what. There are three distinct, named 2.0 versions of the "Falcon" in terms of dials and base cardboard but taking a "reasonable man" approach a YT-1300 model is a YT-1300 model (or so I see it).

Not even remotely close to considering tourney play but I've been reading tons and this special situation the Falcon finds itself in has interested me. Very much enjoying the discussion.