Ok a friend and I are going back and forth over the clarification wording on Jendon's card. I'm basing my argument on the clarification as it appears in the faq 5.1.1 effective 03 09 20

Situation:

I move a squadron to engage Jendon. Jendon is now engaged.

Jendon is activated by a squadron command. My friend believes despite being engaged that Jendon may still use his ability to command someone else to attack another starfighter (not the one engaging Jendon).

The FAQ clarification reads:

Colonel Jendon can resolve his effect if:

1) He is not engaged (but he is so this doesn't apply)

or

2) He is unable to perform an attack due to some other effect (but he can perform an attack. He can attack the person he's engaged with so this doesn't apply)

My interpretation is thus since neither condition is true Jendon cannot use his effect.

Yet my friend insists that Jendon can still use his ability despite the above and that I'm reading it wrong.

Am I? My friend and I are at a standstill on this. Is the clarification really trying to say he can resolve his ability"... EVEN if he is not engaged/... EVEN if he is unable to perform an attack..." in conjunction with the rule on the card? The clarification as stated seems to layout conditions that must be met, not scenarios of permisibility given the wording (otherwise they would use the word "even").

You must have the *ability* to attack. For lack of a better term, You must have your attack *action* available to you.

The only time this doesn’t happen essentially, Is when you’re activated in the squad phase and decide to move as your one action. (Or theoretically any time it explicitly states you cannot attack AT ALL).

If you decide to *attack* as your one action, then give it up for your ability, that is fine.

You also don’t have to be in range if anyone, because declaring an attack happens BEFORE you measure any ranges.

So in or out of engagement is irrelevant.

This is because the engagement rule says IF you attack, you must....

Jendon says “instead of attacking”.

So he never actually attacks, and is never forced to shoot hinself

9 hours ago, Garrett17 said:

Ok a friend and I are going back and forth over the clarification wording on Jendon's card. I'm basing my argument on the clarification as it appears in the faq 5.1.1 effective 03 09 20

Situation:

I move a squadron to engage Jendon. Jendon is now engaged.

Jendon is activated by a squadron command. My friend believes despite being engaged that Jendon may still use his ability to command someone else to attack another starfighter (not the one engaging Jendon).

The FAQ clarification reads:

Colonel Jendon can resolve his effect if:

1) He is not engaged (but he is so this doesn't apply)

or

2) He is unable to perform an attack due to some other effect (but he can perform an attack. He can attack the person he's engaged with so this doesn't apply)

My interpretation is thus since neither condition is true Jendon cannot use his effect.

Yet my friend insists that Jendon can still use his ability despite the above and that I'm reading it wrong.

Am I? My friend and I are at a standstill on this. Is the clarification really trying to say he can resolve his ability"... EVEN if he is not engaged/... EVEN if he is unable to perform an attack..." in conjunction with the rule on the card? The clarification as stated seems to layout conditions that must be met, not scenarios of permisibility given the wording (otherwise they would use the word "even").

Just to clarify further, the FAQ you're quoting lets you know of specific/possibly confusing situations where Jendon's abbility can trigger, but those are not the only 2 situations where he can use it. As Drasnighta said, anytime that Jendon can have an "attack action", even if he has no possible target to attack himself, he can use his abbility to allow another friendly squadron at distance 1-2 to make an attack to a legal target for that other squadron. There are no additional restrictions.

I really hope they re-word that in the next version of the faq. The clarification as worded is easily interpreted as a set of conditions which frankly make more sense to me thematically. You would think Jendon would be too busy to talk on the phone if someone was actively shooting at him.

9 hours ago, Garrett17 said:

I really hope they re-word that in the next version of the faq. The clarification as worded is easily interpreted as a set of conditions which frankly make more sense to me thematically. You would think Jendon would be too busy to talk on the phone if someone was actively shooting at him.

Nah, everyone except the Milennium Falcon has hands free anyway.

They are stuck with headsets in the gun wells.

On 8/30/2020 at 12:25 PM, Garrett17 said:

You would think Jendon would be too busy to talk on the phone if someone was actively shooting at him.

Jendon is actually the copilot in legends.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Yorr

On 8/30/2020 at 3:25 PM, Garrett17 said:

You would think Jendon would be too busy to talk on the phone if someone was actively shooting at him.

If my guns were as weak as Jendon's, I'd be hitting that Maarek speed dial every time.

Outsider also curious about this. In the above situation can Jendon use his ability or not? Didn't see any clear answer.

34 minutes ago, Uncrustable said:

Outsider also curious about this. In the above situation can Jendon use his ability or not? Didn't see any clear answer.

Yes he can.

But the FAQ say clearly he can't use his ability if he is engaged... so if he is engaged his ability can't be used?!?

He can use the ability only if unable to attack someone due to some other effect... if able to attack he can not use his ability. He may decline to attack if he wish but if he is engaged he may not use his ability. Even if you measure distance after you declare an attack that does not matter if he is engaged or not, in order to establish that he can use his ability you need to check if he is engaged or not anyway. He can try to use his ability instead of attacking but if you later see he is engaged he then can't use his ability. My question is then if he can change his mind and attack instead after that, I suppose that he can't.

Now, you are allowed to measure at any time so this absurd situation should never occur in the first place.

That is how I read the clarifications on his card...

20 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

But the FAQ say clearly he can't use his ability if he is engaged... so if he is engaged his ability can't be used?!?

The FAQ says he can use his ability if he isn't engaged... not the same thing.

The ability replaces the attack. When he uses the ability during his activation, he is not performing an attack. And is therefore not affected by engagement, or anything else that would prevent him from attacking.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/9f/6e/9f6e5844-e22e-4f6c-bd7f-74e54b838224/armada_faq_v331.pdf

9 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The FAQ says he can use his ability if he isn't engaged... not the same thing.

The ability replaces the attack. When he uses the ability during his activation, he is not performing an attack. And is therefore not affected by engagement, or anything else that would prevent him from attacking.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/9f/6e/9f6e5844-e22e-4f6c-bd7f-74e54b838224/armada_faq_v331.pdf

But...

Quote

Colonel Jendon can resolve his effect if he is not engaged or ...

"He can use his ability it he is not engaged" IS the same as "He can't use his ability if he is engaged"

To be honest I can't really read the FAQ in any other way, but I probably are missing something here and the wording must be very convoluted in that case so normal people can't understand it.

11 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

"He can use his ability it he is not engaged" IS the same as "He can't use his ability if he is engaged"

If A then B =/= If B then A.

"If I'm not eating, I'm not eating a sandwich" =/= "If I'm not eating a sandwich, I'm not eating."

"If a shape is a circle, it is not a square" =/= "If a shape is not a square, it is a circle."

"If Jendon is not engaged he may use his ability" doesn't mean that's the only situation in which he may use his ability.

They are subtle but very different. Changing it to "even if Jendon is not engaged..." would read much better, it's true.

It's why Jendon is arguably the best squadron in the game.

No I get that he can use his ability in many situation but if he is engaged he can't unless he is unable to attack. This is what is clear to me...

But then again I have a fever today so I might not be thinking clearly anyway...

1 minute ago, jorgen_cab said:

No I get that he can use his ability in many situation but if he is engaged he can't unless he is unable to attack. This is what is clear to me...

But then again I have a fever today so I might not be thinking clearly anyway...

Nowhere does it say he cannot use his ability when engaged. The FAQ you have cited says something logically different.

Try the 2 examples I've given and see if the sentences on each side are correct.

Alternatively, get well (I hope you have a swift recovery) and check in when you're feeling better.

Here's the fallacy, if you're interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

I do understand the meaning of the negative wording and I also know abut that fallacy...

Can someone give a situation where Jendon actually can't use his ability... there have to be some situation where he can't otherwise I don't understand the clarification at all?

There is negation on the engagement and then an "or" for if he can't attack his ability can be used.. .why is this clarification here at all in that case, I do struggle to understand this, unfortunately.

Just now, jorgen_cab said:

Can someone give a situation where Jendon actually can't use his ability... there have to be some situation where he can't otherwise I don't understand the clarification at all?

No squadron in range.

Activation slider already toggled, I suppose.

That's really about it.

But if you're wondering about the context:

Players: "Hey, can Jendon use his ability if he's not engaged?"

FFG: "Jendon can use his ability if he's not engaged."

It's a narrow answer to a narrow question.

OK... thanks... this is how we always have played him as that is how I always understood the original card text... I was mainly confused about the wording on the clarification.

It is easy to fall into the trap about negation, that is why they really should not be used in this manner. It is very easy to think that it is a ruling as in ( he can't use his ability if engaged) as the sentence is sort of phrased as a ruling more than a statement of facts.

I think the official clarification needs an official clarification

Jendon’s card says “During your activation, instead of attacking you may choose 1 friendly squadron at distance 1-2...”

Normally, you have to be engaged (or at distance one of a ship) in order to attack. The clarification was necessary because people were saying that since Jendon wasn’t engaged he couldn’t attack, and therefore couldn’t use his ability. It’s simply saying that even if Jendon isn’t engaged (and therefore couldn’t normally attack) he can still use his ability.

@Drasnighta I just realized I basically just rewrote what you wrote earlier. 🤦🏼‍♂️

5 hours ago, Uncrustable said:

I think the official clarification needs an official clarification

Rest assured, it does not. The RRG and FAQ explain it within logic as laid out by those rulings.

I'm Sorry you're having difficulty with grasping the concept but multiple people have explained how it works by this point.

Accept it, or don't. Either is acceptable.

14 hours ago, jorgen_cab said:

Can someone give a situation where Jendon actually can't use his ability... there have to be some situation where he can't otherwise I don't understand the clarification at all?

If Jendon moves in the squadron phase would be the other situation that prevents him from passing an attack, that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Let's take a look at the FAQ entry for Intel Officer.

"While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token."

FAQ: "A ship with this card equipped can choose 1 of its own defense tokens when resolving this card."

Upon reading this upgrade card, and then the FAQ entry, would you come to the conclusion that the ONLY way to use Intel Officer is to target your own ship's defense token? I hope not--that would be misunderstanding of the card's effect.

On 9/5/2020 at 10:34 PM, Karneck said:

Rest assured, it does not. The RRG and FAQ explain it within logic as laid out by those rulings.

I'm Sorry you're having difficulty with grasping the concept but multiple people have explained how it works by this point.

Accept it, or don't. Either is acceptable.

A bit of free advice.

When people say "they're sorry" then criticize you that's often condescending. It's like saying "i'm sorry people are so jealous of me".

It's possible for something to be logical and correct and still be inefficiently worded. The fact that something is obvious and logical to you does not equate to others not perceiving in the same way as being worthy of insult.

I hope this wasn't meant to be the case.

Was it?