Question is straightforward. The card lets you bank calculates when you miss shots, and then allows you to cash it in when you engage. It seems you can bank multiple calculates on the card. Consensus is that "closest valid attack range" means range bands, so if you have a target at R1, R2, and R3, you have to hit R1 even if it's reinforced Tavson and you blocked Kylo with 1 hp at R2. If you have multiple targets in the same range band, you get your choice as to which one you'd like to target.

So, what do people think this will cost? (Ignore what you think it should cost, please, lots of potential bias in that answer.)

Also, please note this is not faction restricted, only initiative restricted.

There are plenty of limitations already built into the card, so I don't see it too expensive. The lack of a token stack limit is nice, but since they are calculates, and you can only pull one per turn, it doesn't seem too powerful.

I think this will most likely be competing with Optics, but I don't believe it's a better upgrade in a vacuum. I think 3 points is probably fair to start. I could maybe see it at 4 points since it's basically designed to go on low-initiative generics.

My guess is 3 if they intend it to be used by generic TIEs. 4 means it has to compete with Advanced Optics (which does not restrict your attack options and does not require you to not hit things first), 2 means you can bring 4 Snap Shot + Automated Target Priority TIE/bas.

3.

I'm going low with this card.

Yes its give you a way to bank calculates but you have to fail at shooting to gain it. It forces your choices of target priority and if someone throws a ship at you they want you to shoot at at range 1, Tavison for instance, your forced to shoot at him and likely not even going to miss to trigger the card. Above that, is it at all worth it to bank 1 calculate?

A viable method for this card working is with snapshot, foresight or underslung blaster cannnon. Your chances of hitting are low anyway and if you miss you get an extra mod for engagement.

Using secondary weapons with lock restrictions means you can override the range restrictions on the ATP card, as its whatever is in a valid range, so only the ship locked is valid. However again your not aiming to miss with such ordinance. This card may make your feel bad, feel less bad if you do miss, but it doesn't seem great.

I've personally been wondering how I could use this with a Resistance list. Bastian, underslung blaster and ATP, could work.

However all in all it has passive restrictions, it requires failure to bank anything. Lower generics with this could be destroyed before it even triggers, so waisted points.

Truly I'm looking at this as the 1-2 point tech filler we don't currently have.

The downside isn't that big, you usually attack ships which are at the closest range, I think 90% of the time. I think at least 3, maybe 4.

43 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

The downside isn't that big, you usually attack ships which are at the closest range, I think 90% of the time. I think at least 3, maybe 4.

I think your under estimating the downside. Target priority is a large part of this game and this card takes it away some what.

Usually your aim is to focus firing on one target. A spread staggered formation can distrupt that with this card.

Plus I would say attacking the closest target isn't alway ideal. For instance you maybe looking to strike your opponents arc dodging ace, or maybe you've damaged a ship in the previous round and are looking to take it off the table for points you need. You've got arcs all over tge target but now all your opponent has to do is have another ship closer and you can't take those shots this turn. That could lose you the game.

2 points. Requires some set-up. Has a downside.

Also, when you use that banked calculate (before you engage), you may well roll no eyeballs on your attack, and the token then proves useless.

2 or 3. It's a calculate after you miss (and only miss), with at least a turn of lag time, with the targeting bracket restriction.

It'll be interesting to see how much that matters, how often it actually stops you from attacking who you'd prefer.

If this is 4 points, I don't think it EVER sees play. Optics is sooooooooo much better. The ability to mod blanks is crazy good. I also believe Advanced Optics should cost at least 5 but that is another thread. You only get as many calcs as you have missed shots. What are you putting this on that you are going to miss enough shots and survive long enough to use those banked calculates? You only put out those calc tokens when you engage so as a low initiative ship they won't do much for defense. 2 points is the maximum where this is at all effective for me.

All that said, FFG will probably price this at 3 points because they are mostly rubbish at point costing.

I'm guessing open at 2, after it's deemed abusive it goes to 4, and eventually settles out at 3. </flippant_response>

Im thinking it will start at 4-5 pts. Its not as restrictive as it initially appears on paper. Really like that its "i3 or lower". Hope that tag gets added to more upgrades going forward. It has very real benefits on both offense and defense against really any init level ( more so when engaging first for the multi-token defense but still useful in terms of mods split across off/def for engages against higher init which helps maintain threats against them). Allows access to a calc while bumped, stressed, after repositons. Being forced to split targets will be interesting to play around but it should still be pretty useful regardless. The fact that you can build up a stack of calcs is also kinda fantastic.

2 or 3

Would be a steal at 2, but they might be cautious with the 3. Higher won't see play.

It's not a real choice for most RZ2s that could take it, but it will be amazing on low i T70s and Silencers, some /fo, and maybe even on missile carrying passive sensors /sf

Honestly, I don't like it

It give your opponent S o much agency over you, just so you can get one calculate IF you miss. the other "if you miss" cards give you so much more!

Cody gives strain, so you can punish evasive aces even if they can turtle up.

The R2 units give you a whole extra shield (you miss 100% of the shot you don't take, so I'm counting them as "if you miss" cards)

Even the new force talent, Patience, gives you a "calculate" that you can use either now or later, and you still get to try to hit something.

In conclusion, I really don't think I'll be seeing much of this card. It's way to much risk for too little reward

1 hour ago, Roller of blanks said:

The R2 units give you a whole extra shield (you miss 100% of the shot you don't take, so I'm counting them as "if you miss" cards)

I would not, because the use cases of R2 are entirely different than most miss case cards.

The point of most miss cards is to reward low dice attackers who struggle to hit by letting them gain something from maintaining uptime even if nothing came of it damage wise.

R2 doesn't do that, and instead rewards disengage. You might miss 100% of the shots you don't take, but as you can't R2 in response to missing an attack it doesn't actually work when you miss the shots you DO take: Your popping it on turns you wouldn't 'miss a shot you didn't take' because the ball was down court anyway, as the value of R2 is really terrible if you use it 'mid combat.'

15 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

So, what do people think this will cost?

4, because I suspect it will fall through the cracks yet again on FFG's weird pricing philosophy.

It should probably cost 2, because 1: It is best on 2 dice attackers you spam, meaning it can't be too expensive, 2: Unlike many other utilities intended for such ships it comes with serious mandatory downsides, 3: It requires at least two turns to get value, and 4: Modding is so common and easy that such a conditional way to get calculates actually isn't as strong as it looks: Why run this on a TIE/FO when you can just run a droid swarm and mod ALL of your attacks AND defenses perfectly sharing those calculates? Slightly better dial doesn't seem worth the large loss in offensive power and to some degree defense (1 less green hurts, but the fact that a droid can almost always use focus results no matter what while still being strong offensively makes up a lot for it).

2 would be a good point IMO where you really want to take it, but can't always justify it. Value positive but still a biiiiit too much to just slap on everything.

3 hours ago, Roller of blanks said:

Honestly, I don't like it

It give your opponent S o much agency over you, just so you can get one calculate IF you miss. the other "if you miss" cards give you so much more!

Cody gives strain, so you can punish evasive aces even if they can turtle up.

The R2 units give you a whole extra shield (you miss 100% of the shot you don't take, so I'm counting them as "if you miss" cards)

Even the new force talent, Patience, gives you a "calculate" that you can use either now or later, and you still get to try to hit something.

In conclusion, I really don't think I'll be seeing much of this card. It's way to much risk for too little reward

I think the best use of the card is with Null. He's the least powerful of FO's budget pieces, but he drives a lot of paranoia into enemy I6's. Allowing him to turtle and be more defensive can make him more annoying. Plus, if you hit something with him...wait, you hit something with Null? Good for you!

I forgot that it was stated somewhere that if cheap enough, this could be good on a tugboat. I think that it will be quite possibly very good on a tug because your 2 die modless gun is not the point of the chassis, as you are a control piece. Yet, there is still a stronger incentive to keep the arc on target as you tractor stuff because it could make you more defensive next turn when people are focusing on you and you want to tractor some more. Heck, you could back up and take a modded shot if you so desire.

I guess anything with bonus attacks but not a lot of mods; Starfortresses with VTG etc. Or something with Cluster Missiles?

I think 3.

I think it will be less than 5.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's 1 point. Seems worse than Predator, or Crack Shot, etc.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it's 2 points. However anything over that is wildly overpriced.

It seems like a 3-4 points upgrade, but I think it will cost 5 points.

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

It seems like a 3-4 points upgrade, but I think it will cost 5 points.

Why?

2 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Why?

It should be 3-4 points because it doesn't seem especially powerful, but still useful, giving a cushion for those times you miss.

It will be 5 points because FFG has done a slightly poor job of pricing tech. Targeting Syncronizer has only just dropped to 4 points, and that might still be too much. Ferrosphere Paint also has finally dropped by 1 point, as well, to 5 points. Neither of them should have been costed that high with Advanced Optics being exceedingly better at 4 points.

Do you think they could set this next to Advanced Optics and think it should cost more? Maybe. But even I give them more credit than that.

1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

Do you think they could set this next to Advanced Optics and think it should cost more? Maybe. But even I give them more credit than that.

Can you set TSync or Ferropaint next to Adv Optics for over a year and say that they cost two points more than Optics? Because FFG did. I give credit where credit is due.