We all know it needs fixing, and after reading probably too many posts on the subject I've got some ideas on how to fix it. FFG may I recommend the following 3 step plan:

1. Add the Sensor Slot. According to cannon the RZ-1 has a powerful sensor package, as it's designed to be a reconnaissance craft with hit/run tactics. If this change were to happen, I think that it should coincide with the release of an (RZ-1) A-wing specific sensor upgrade (see hotshots and aces v2.0), called "Short range jamming array". I imagine it would read something like "After you fully execute a blue maneuver, you may assign an enemy ship at range 1 one jam token." This would let the RZ-1 get even more up in the fray, while causing a little bit of havoc. Additionally, advanced sensor Arvel, would be a lot of fun to play, because you would have another method of getting a range 0 modded shot.

2. More Pilots. One of the biggest issues with the RZ-1 right now, is its lack of pilots. 3 more solid pilots that are I4 and above, would be huge. I think we need Tycho Celchu, Gemmer Sojan, and Shara Bey. I have also heard Hobbie recommended.

Tycho Celchu (I6): While you have two or fewer stress tokens, you may preform actions from your actions bar.

Gemmer Sojan (I4): While you attack or defend, if you are at range 0-1 of an enemy ship, you must roll one additional dice.

Shara Bey (I5): At the beginning of the engagement phase, you may spend one focus token to preform a red coordinate action.

Hobbie Klivian (I4): While you aquire or spend a target lock, you may clear one stress, strain, or deplete token from your ship.

3. RZ-1 Specific Talent + Access to Reload. I think that there should be some incentive to flying many of these together. Similar to the way that droids in CIS are encouraged to fly together. Something along the lines of: "While you preform an attack, if there is a friendly ship with this upgrade card equipped at range 1-2 you may spend one stress token to change one blank result to a focus result. After you preform an evade action you may preform a red reload action." The reasoning behind the reload action is that the RZ-1 was outfitted with 12 concussion missiles, and were often used as missile delivery platforms, so giving them access to the reload action seems thematic.

As always, I am sure that there are many flaws with my ideas here. Please point them out and let me know what's wrong! I love hearing all the good ideas!

There is a rumoured squadron pack coming for the Rebels that will certainly, if real, focus on the A-wing. So, new pilots on the way!

But the sensor slot is deserved.

And a configuration card for the two seated RZ-1T could be interesting too. Maybe trading the sensor slot for the crew slot?

You missed #0.

Cheaper.

Thassit.

I'll expand.

Phoenix and Green are too expensive for what they offer, considering how much cheaper and more effective similar (ish) ships like the TIE/v1, TIE/fo, Scyk, and Nantex are.

Sure, #2 is great. There should be more pilots. Jake and Arvel, for example, are fine, so A-Wings are very much playable. Just not the generics, and pilots will never fix that. Personally, I want strictly new abilities only. I don't want 1e Tycho (even shaved down some like above) or 1e Gemmer to come back (particularly not if he gains a red die too... Fenn Rau basically), because I'd rather see new ideas.

#1 and #3 I'm less enthusiastic, because it's pretty hard to fix expensive ships like Phoenix/Green with more upgrades that make them even more expensive. System, unless it has broken upgrades, doesn't fix anything for the unplayed RZ-1s. Reload might be nice, but P/G with missiles even with reload are probably still too costly.

@theBitterFig what price point would you think the Phoenix/Green would be reasonable/playable at?

I agree to more pilots helping the issue, but then you haven't actually brought the ship up, just made pilots who make it look like you did. Think how Ric is to the N-1. Eric makes the N-1 good, the N-1 is not good on it's own merit in the way say a RZ2 is. I'm unconvinced of the other two options as anything but Band-Aids, which we did in first edition.

I think the key flaw is still always going to be that the poor classic A is a two die attack, stuck in forward. The RZ-2 gets around this with an easy to get second arc that more than doubles it's time on target making the weak attack not that bad, especially since you have two r1 zones to get the 3 die attack. Then on top of that the consistency of things like optics and heroic.

You fix the attack capability either with the turret, or general affordable upgrades. You don't even need to make it ship specific. (Unless of course it's a 'refit' config for a turret)

6 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

@theBitterFig what price point would you think the Phoenix/Green would be reasonable / playable at?

27/29 probably is reasonable. If we take the Baron of the Empire TIE/v1 as a guide, that's 28. No way in **** should a Phoenix be *more* expensive than that. Letting a Green be 1 point more expensive is probably OK in the short run. 29 Green would also be the same price as Init 3 Nantex, and I think the Nantex would be a bit better, but there's room for debate.

On the other end, a Phoenix at 2 points more than a TIE/fo or Scyk seems about fair, at least for an Init 1 without a pilot ability. Adding Vectored Thrusters to someone like Midnight or Serissu would be worth a lot more than 2 points, but for basic generics, it seems OK.

On 8/28/2020 at 11:28 AM, Gupa-nupa said:

@theBitterFig what price point would you think the Phoenix/Green would be reasonable/playable at?

Posted this in another thread but just look at this monstrosity:

Mining Guild Surveyor – 23

Cartel Spacer – 25

Epsilon Squadron Cadet – 25

Black Squadron Ace – 25

Techno-Union Bomber – 25

Sienar Specialist – 26

Colossus Station Mechanic – 26

Scimitar Squadron Pilot – 27

Baron of the Empire – 28

Onyx Squadron Scout – 28

Separatist Bomber – 28

Omega Squadron Ace – 29

Stalgasin Hive Guard – 29

Tansarii Point Veteran – 29

Phoenix Squadron Pilot – 29

Petranaki Arena Ace – 30

Gamma Squadron Ace – 30

Alpha Squadron Pilot – 31

Planetary Sentinel – 31

Green Squadron Pilot – 32

It is a considerably worse value than several items that are already clearly overpriced.

The RZ-1 does not need new slots or abilities.

Sure Starbird Slash is interesting. Sure an alternative config would be kinda neat. New pilots would be nice and would expand on its options.

That all misses the point though:

All the RZ-1 needs is to be cheaper. 27/29 makes sense. 29/ 32 most emphatically does not.

The lack of movement on A-Wing prices was the biggest disappointment in the points change. The A-Wing has been a the favorite Star Wars ship of many since 1983 (I mean, probably. They are very zoomy.)

My idea for a while now is a config that adds a front/back rotating arc like the RZ-2. The card starts with 2 charges and every time you take the action you roll a red die. On a hit/crit result, lose 1 charge. If both charges inactive, you cannot take the action again. Lots of words and you have to ignore the printed arc and it adds extra time to the game and probably a bunch of other reasons it's a bad idea. But the fluff and the hilarity are worth it I think. Should be free too. And they still need to be a couple points cheaper.

On team cost reduction here too. Feels like the most important thing, especially for the lower initiative pilots. More pilots would be nice, and I definitely want an I5 or I6 pilot to be added to the ship at some point, but extra gimmicks or configs don't feel necessary though. At the end of the day new pilots and configs just won't really address the issue that the frame itself isn't really worth it's asking price in comparison to everything else out there.

I love the Awing as is. I don’t want it to be flashy. I love the named pilots.

I’m in the price adjustment camp. It’s a great chassis. It doesn’t need a fix.

But, a solid yes please on about 10 more pilots.

18 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

We all know it needs fixing, and after reading probably too many posts on the subject I've created another one:

Sorry, but it had to be done! 😂 😂 😂

On 8/28/2020 at 4:04 PM, ClassicalMoser said:

Posted this in another thread but just look at this monstrosity:

Mining Guild Surveyor – 23

Cartel Spacer – 25

Epsilon Squadron Cadet – 25

Black Squadron Ace – 25

Techno-Union Bomber – 25

Sienar Specialist – 26

Colossus Station Mechanic – 26

Scimitar Squadron Pilot – 27

Baron of the Empire – 28

Onyx Squadron Scout – 28

Separatist Bomber – 28

Omega Squadron Ace – 29

Stalgasin Hive Guard – 29

Tansarii Point Veteran – 29

Phoenix Squadron Pilot – 29

Petranaki Arena Ace – 30

Gamma Squadron Ace – 30

Alpha Squadron Pilot – 31

Planetary Sentinel – 31

Green Squadron Pilot – 32

It is a considerably worse value than several items that are already clearly overpriced.

The RZ-1 does not need new slots or abilities.

Sure Starbird Slash is interesting. Sure an alternative config would be kinda neat. New pilots would be nice and would expand on its options.

That all misses the point though:

All the RZ-1 needs is to be cheaper. 27/29 makes sense. 29/ 32 most emphatically does not.

Going down that list, it became pretty obvious to me why FFG has the A-Wing costed higher: they're putting a premium on shields. The Baron of the Empire is the only other ship in that list that has 2 shields. All the others have either 1 or no shields. Many of them have less total health, for that matter.

The question then becomes why the Baron of the Empire is cheaper than the Phoenix Squadron Pilot, and that pretty much comes down to the A-Wing having a ship ability, and the TIE Advanced v1 doesn't. FFG apparently feels that ability is worth 1 point.

Personally, I don't think FFG needs to keep a hardline on that score, and the price could come down a little, but I can at least see what the internal justification is likely to be for the current price. Considering the RZ-2 costs 3 points more and is useful, it does seem like there's room to provide something extra if FFG doesn't want to bring down the price. Maybe a combination of extra slots, specialized talents or titles.

1 hour ago, Freeptop said:

The question then becomes why the Baron of the Empire is cheaper than the Phoenix Squadron Pilot, and that pretty much comes down to the A-Wing having a ship ability, and the TIE Advanced v1 doesn't. FFG apparently feels that ability is worth 1 point.

The RZ-1 has a ship ability, sure, but that ability is often no better than, and sometimes worse than the two linked actions available to the TAP. It certainly shouldn't be paying a premium for it.

I agree with DR4CO, there seems to be an added point there that just isn't necessary. I think the biggest issue is that FFG is trying to balance the A-Wing with other ships from all factions, instead of just within the Rebel faction.

Don't forget the TAP has Force. Which may as well be a ship ability. And it's definitely one of the best.

RZ-1 can do a Focus into a Red Boost from ship ability. TAP can do a Boost/Roll into a Red Focus from linked actions. I really do not understand, why the RZ-1 is more expensive. Both have 2 Red forward, which benefits from a Focus in the same way as it does from a Lock... So a Focus is your go for action most of the time. But the TAP has better options for reposition while taking a Focus.

On the other hand, I do not believe FFG is too focused on balancing ship across factions that much. Look at the Rebel and Republic Y-Wings. At least I do not believe they value Shields that much. In all regards, the Republic has the better Y-Wing.

• Rebel Grey Squadron Bomber (2/1/6/2 no ship ability) 30 points
• Republic Red Squadron Bomber (2/1/5/3 Plated Hull ship ability) 29 points

1 hour ago, Schanez said:

• Rebel Grey Squadron Bomber (2/1/6/2 no ship ability) 30 points
• Republic Red Squadron Bomber (2/1/5/3 Plated Hull ship ability) 29 points

The Republic Y-wing ability doesn't actually do much, and the dial is horrendous . You'd be surprised how big a difference not being able to change direction while clearing stress makes.

1. Points reduction is needed.

2. Rebels need Rogue Squadron pilots (not only on E-Wing chassis). I4 generics on X-Wings and A-Wings.

I hope Ace Squadron pack is focused on Rogue Squadron and full of high init named pilots and Rogue I4 generics.

What do u think?

28 minutes ago, _iaco_ said:

1. Points reduction is needed.

2. Rebels need Rogue Squadron pilots (not only on E-Wing chassis). I4 generics on X-Wings and A-Wings.

I hope Ace Squadron pack is focused on Rogue Squadron and full of high init named pilots and Rogue I4 generics.

What do u think?

Ace Squadron Pack is the Phoenix Squadron Pack which has been leaked a while ago. I expect Hera Syndula, maybe Ezra and Kanan in the A-Wings. Probably also a Hera B-Wing. As for the rest, I expect at least two I4-5 in the A-Wing as well, from the Phoenix Cell itself.

32 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

The Republic Y-wing ability doesn't actually do much, and the dial is horrendous . You'd be surprised how big a difference not being able to change direction while clearing stress makes.

That is true, but other than taking Rolls/Reloads, I don't think there is any serious threat of stressing yourself in the Republic Y-Wing. Consdering you get the Dorsal for 2 points now, having that 180 arc is neat.

40 minutes ago, Schanez said:

Ace Squadron Pack is the Phoenix Squadron Pack which has been leaked a while ago. I expect Hera Syndula, maybe Ezra and Kanan in the A-Wings. Probably also a Hera B-Wing. As for the rest, I expect at least two I4-5 in the A-Wing as well, from the Phoenix Cell itself.

This. ^

I'm in the "It doesn't need fixing, it just needs to cost less" camp, although of course more pilots would be nice. Originally the cheapest M3A was 29 points and the cheapest A-Wing was 30. Now it's 25 vs 29, and M3As are finally at a point where they're actually pretty good after being a bit rubbish for ages. Reduce the price by two points or so for everyone but Jake and they'll be fine.

8 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Don't forget the TAP has Force. Which may as well be a ship ability. And it's definitely one of the best.

Most of the pilots do, but the cheapest one, the Baron of the Empire, does not. If you want the generic Inquisitors with Force they're an extra 8 points.

As a non rebel player, it's as plain as things that are very plain that this ship is missing 1-2 Int 5 pilots minimum. Resistance have 4 now? No idea I dislike Rebels and Resistance equally, but not having access to an elite pilot is a real travesty. especially when it is supposed to be a chassis that the top pilots flew. ATM I only see Jake about and that's as a support ship, which seems crazy pills.

4 hours ago, Schanez said:

Ace Squadron Pack is the Phoenix Squadron Pack which has been leaked a while ago. I expect Hera Syndula, maybe Ezra and Kanan in the A-Wings. Probably also a Hera B-Wing. As for the rest, I expect at least two I4-5 in the A-Wing as well, from the Phoenix Cell itself.

Don't forget Sabine in an A-Wing, she definitely fought in one. I wonder how different their abilities will be, if changed at all.

1 hour ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

Don't forget Sabine in an A-Wing, she definitely fought in one. I wonder how different their abilities will be, if changed at all.

Her current ability seem fun and balanced in the Rebel A. She could trigger the Vectored Thrusters off of her ability's barrel roll, then clear the stress with a blue maneuver. It seems powerful, but at I3, manageable. She should be priced with 3 points of intimidation in mind since she will fantastic at blocking. Somewhere around 39?