3 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

She should be priced with 3 points of intimidation in mind

Lol basically all A-Wings should be the way I fly them 🙃

20 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Her current ability seem fun and balanced in the Rebel A. She could trigger the Vectored Thrusters off of her ability's barrel roll, then clear the stress with a blue maneuver. It seems powerful, but at I3, manageable. She should be priced with 3 points of intimidation in mind since she will fantastic at blocking. Somewhere around 39?

Not just here, any of them that might end up in an A-Wing. I've seen others suggest Hera's ability should be different, simply because of how much blue is on the dial. Ezra's current ability is slightly easier to trigger but maybe isn't too strong still. Kanan might shift from a support ability to focusing on piloting the interceptor he's in. Would be interesting to see if any of them change if they're put into an a-wing.

Fly Casual lets you put Hera, Sabine, and Ezra in a-wings, and their current abilities don't seem too strong, honestly, but they might shift them if only to give some more variety.

9 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I've seen others suggest Hera's ability should be different, simply because of how much blue is on the dial.

Enough people have pushed back on me about Hera in an A-Wing, that I have relented and conceded that maybe she would be too good. Ezra wouldn't be strong, but would be a tough nut to crack with a white evade like the generic Inqs. Same for Kanan, but his ability would probably be decent in an A. You won't want to shoot at him because he'd have 2 force and an evade, but if you don't shoot at him, he could spend 1 force to make you fire 1 less die.

Seeing as every pilot in the Resistance Pack has a new ability, I think we will see new ones as well in the Rebels. While I think Hera would be an S+ in both the A- and B-Wing, I suspect to see something new from her.

Other possibilities that came to mind earlier today, would be younger Wedge Antilles in an A-Wing, maybe at I4 or 5. Also his buddy Derek Klivian. They would fit well into the Phoenix Squadron thematic, I think. And I mean... If we do get an I5 young Wedge in an A-Wing... Hot **** I would love to see his ability. His X-Wing one would be amazing, especially since the vessel is so good at using Outmaneuver. Imagine a 2 Die into -2 Agility... But as I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will use the same ability for the pack pilots.

But stearing the topic back on track, RZ-1 are so bad compared to the RZ-2 due to Rebels lack of upgrades for them. There is no Heroic+Optics shenanigans. Time on target is also much lower than their Resistance counterparts. The only sensible build for Generics I can think of is... Either going for Proton Rockets, which would be difficult to aim, or trying to use Outmaneuver to lower enemy defence. I really like Rebel named pilots in the A-Wings, so I hope for some new, refreshing ideas with the packs.

29 minutes ago, Schanez said:

The only sensible build for Generics I can think of is... Either going for Proton Rockets, which would be difficult to aim, or trying to use Outmaneuver to lower enemy defence.

I'm pretty sure the only viable build is Phoenix + Intimidation + Nothing.

Even that isn't very good but a pair of those can be pretty good for harassment and area denial or some extra punch from your hammer. Probably not worth Luke Skywalker though.

Too true, I keep forgetting that. It's almost like I never see the 'lil barons on a table. I was thinking of an old N-1 discussion I had lol. Good catch @Ysenhal

On 8/30/2020 at 8:03 PM, DR4CO said:

The RZ-1 has a ship ability, sure, but that ability is often no better than, and sometimes worse than the two linked actions available to the TAP. It certainly shouldn't be paying a premium for it.

I just said FFG apparently felt that, didn't say I agreed! 😆

I do think that when FFG started setting points, they were trying to be consistent across all ships as to what capabilities would cost what. Since then, I get the impression they've mostly adjusted based on what people were flying in tournaments, and balanced new ships around those. I'm not convinced they've gone back to re-point all the earlier ships based on the other changes they've made. A-Wings hadn't disappeared entirely from Rebel lists, and they certainly weren't overpowered, so they just haven't bothered making very many adjustments to them. Most of the complaints I've seen have centered around the lack of I5 pilots rather than the cost of the generics, so there wasn't may not have been much other feedback telling them it was necessary, either.

It's the sort of thing that happens when you've got limited personnel to work with, and things aren't obviously a problem. Hopefully the future release of the Phoenix Squadron pack will provide impetus to re-point the generics.

9 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Her current ability seem fun and balanced in the Rebel A. She could trigger the Vectored Thrusters off of her ability's barrel roll, then clear the stress with a blue maneuver. It seems powerful, but at I3, manageable. She should be priced with 3 points of intimidation in mind since she will fantastic at blocking. Somewhere around 39?

Why????? Why did you post this????? Just to torture me with the possibility that I may one day get this???

😜

6 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Why????? Why did you post this????? Just to torture me with the possibility that I may one day get this???

😜

I mean... Sabine in Attack Shuttle can have Evade and Focus each turn while bumping stuff with Zeb and Intimidation on board. At 45 points she sits neatly in a pack of Double Tapping Ten and Braylen, having as Arvel as a Wingman. Her in an A-Wing would be a little less scary, although she could fly with Intimidation and Predator.

18 hours ago, Schanez said:

Seeing as every pilot in the Resistance Pack has a new ability, I think we will see new ones as well in the Rebels. While I think Hera would be an S+ in both the A- and B-Wing, I suspect to see something new from her.

Other possibilities that came to mind earlier today, would be younger Wedge Antilles in an A-Wing, maybe at I4 or 5. Also his buddy Derek Klivian. They would fit well into the Phoenix Squadron thematic, I think. And I mean... If we do get an I5 young Wedge in an A-Wing... Hot **** I would love to see his ability. His X-Wing one would be amazing, especially since the vessel is so good at using Outmaneuver. Imagine a 2 Die into -2 Agility... But as I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will use the same ability for the pack pilots.

But stearing the topic back on track, RZ-1 are so bad compared to the RZ-2 due to Rebels lack of upgrades for them. There is no Heroic+Optics shenanigans. Time on target is also much lower than their Resistance counterparts. The only sensible build for Generics I can think of is... Either going for Proton Rockets, which would be difficult to aim, or trying to use Outmaneuver to lower enemy defence. I really like Rebel named pilots in the A-Wings, so I hope for some new, refreshing ideas with the packs.

Do you think we are likely to get a Rebel box similar to the Resistance one, as Rebels are represented in the core set?

If so, I'd hope fo two A's and a B or Y, as we would hopefully get some goodies for the A, and the B/Y don't have a huge choice of pilots, even after the Hotshots box.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think A's need one or two aces, as I feel Rebels are lacking in an arc dodging ace, and a configuration that encourages use of upgrades onto the ship, e.g. a discount to munitions. Hopefully that would get some more variancein the builds used.

Obviously a drop in points in the easiest solution, but I feel that we would still end up with the same A-Wing builds, just a bit more common.

I think that he is referring to the Phoenix squadron pack which was supposedly spoiled a while ago. The general thought is that it will have 2 a wings and 1 b wing (with a phoenix repaint/ hera's ship for the a wings, and the orange prototype b wing).

6 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

I think that he is referring to the Phoenix squadron pack which was supposedly spoiled a while ago. The general thought is that it will have 2 a wings and 1 b wing (with a phoenix repaint/ hera's ship for the a wings, and the orange prototype b wing).

I'd honestly like either the Rebel TIE or the Attack Shuttle to also come the pack, but I'd put betting money down that it will be 2 A's and a B.

I personally dont think that we need the TIE in a 2.0 package, especially before we have ships like the U-wing in 2.0. On the other hand, the attack shuttle should probably come in a single blister pack. I know that a lot of VCX players would be mad if they had to buy the entire Phoenix squadron pack just to get the attack shuttle, though I could understand why they would want to include it. Personally I hope for 2 a wings and a b wing, because the rebel a wing need some help...

35 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

I personally dont think that we need the TIE in a 2.0 package, especially before we have ships like the U-wing in 2.0. On the other hand, the attack shuttle should probably come in a single blister pack. I know that a lot of VCX players would be mad if they had to buy the entire Phoenix squadron pack just to get the attack shuttle, though I could understand why they would want to include it. Personally I hope for 2 a wings and a b wing, because the rebel a wing need some help...

Yes the A-Wing needs the most help out of the core Rebel ships (A, B, U, X, Y), so it's the perfect place to give it that help.

If the B-Wing is included, that should give us another slot to include their foils.

I think Y-wing could be an option too as, like the B-Wing, it doesn't have many pilots, and they could do something interesting with a configuration, as it doesn't need a fix.

53 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

Yes the A-Wing needs the most help out of the core Rebel ships (A, B, U, X, Y), so it's the perfect place to give it that help.

If the B-Wing is included, that should give us another slot to include their foils.

I think Y-wing could be an option too as, like the B-Wing, it doesn't have many pilots, and they could do something interesting with a configuration, as it doesn't need a fix.

I'm hoping if they include the B-Wing they include an extra copy of the S-Foils for them. I've got 3 B-Wings and only 2 copies of them, right now, so if the Phoenix Squad pack has 2 and a B-Wing, I'll have exactly enough!

I need to field an Epic wing of B-Wings, all with their S-Foils, dang it! 😁

Hm... they've already revealed that new wing cards are forthcoming in future sets, but I doubt I can dare to hope for one I could use for an all-B-Wing group. It'll probably be setup for A-Wings, since it's Phoenix Squadron, anyway.

I'm doubting the B-wing in my gut. It just got an update after all. Of the ships that haven't had much love next to the A-wing there's only 2. The Z-95 Headhunter, and the E-wing. I'd wager those are more likely candidates.

9 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I'm doubting the B-wing in my gut. It just got an update after all. Of the ships that haven't had much love next to the A-wing there's only 2. The Z-95 Headhunter, and the E-wing. I'd wager those are more likely candidates.

If it's based on Phoenix Squadron, they are more likely to include the ships that appeared in the Rebels TV show.

13 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I'm doubting the B-wing in my gut. It just got an update after all. Of the ships that haven't had much love next to the A-wing there's only 2. The Z-95 Headhunter, and the E-wing. I'd wager those are more likely candidates.

E-Wing had no re-release yet for 2.0 and it would be a d-move to make people buy an entire Squadron Pack to get their hands on a ship chassis. *looks at the V-19 Torrent* Oh wait...

Regardless, Rebel A-Wing needs some form of... Tool to help them be more useful. RZ-2 are the kings of the power ladder thanks to their combos, but in my honest opinion, they are the best chassis in the whole game right now. Easy "double" mods with reposition possibility and amazing time on target thanks to forward and backward arc.

RZ-1 will never shoot to the back, because lore reasons. Meaning they need other tools to help make their shots count more. Some A-Wing unique upgrade that would make the Rebel ones useful. The one we will be getting is once more better suited for the Resistance sadly. Unfortunately there is no lore explanation, why RZ-1 should get something, that RZ-2 cannot use. Which means anything to make Rebel A-Wing better will also have to be balanced for the RZ-2. Unless we get a second Faction Specific Talent, which might be interesting tbh.

23 hours ago, Porkchop Express said:

Do you think we are likely to get a Rebel box similar to the Resistance one, as Rebels are represented in the core set?

If so, I'd hope fo two A's and a B or Y, as we would hopefully get some goodies for the A, and the B/Y don't have a huge choice of pilots, even after the Hotshots box.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think A's need one or two aces, as I feel Rebels are lacking in an arc dodging ace, and a configuration that encourages use of upgrades onto the ship, e.g. a discount to munitions. Hopefully that would get some more variancein the builds used.

Obviously a drop in points in the easiest solution, but I feel that we would still end up with the same A-Wing builds, just a bit more common.

Well the next Squadron Packs are the Skystrike Academy, Phoenix Squadron and I think Fugitives and Collaborators? They have the original factions vibe. We might see Wedge Antilles in a Tie/LN for example.

Since the Phoenix Squadron is mostly focusing on A-Wings with later some B- and Y-Wing support, I feel like the pack should have two A-Wings in the Phoenix Sqd paint job and the Prototype B-Wing paint job. I don't think we will get a Y-Wing, because they are in a solid place right now, with while not great a varied bunch of pilots. A-Wings have two named ones and B-Wing only recently got a third option. Which lets face it, while I would love to love Gina, she is not great... Being absolutely outclassed by even Ten Numb.

Maybe we will get a thing like the new Tie Upgrade card that goes into the Talent Slot? Limited to Rebels and A-Wing keyword? That could be interesting.

40 minutes ago, Schanez said:

RZ-1 will never shoot to the back, because lore reasons.

There were RZ-1's that could swivel their guns to the rear, but they were prone to jamming, especially when pointed to the rear. I suggest either making a single named pilot or a double limited pilot that has a turret arc on the RZ1. The pilot ability would be "After fully executing a maneuver, you may perform a rotate action. If you do, roll a die. On a blank result gain a deplete token."

51 minutes ago, Schanez said:

E-Wing had no re-release yet for 2.0 and it would be a d-move to make people buy an entire Squadron Pack to get their hands on a ship chassis. *looks at the V-19 Torrent* Oh wait...

Regardless, Rebel A-Wing needs some form of... Tool to help them be more useful. RZ-2 are the kings of the power ladder thanks to their combos, but in my honest opinion, they are the best chassis in the whole game right now. Easy "double" mods with reposition possibility and amazing time on target thanks to forward and backward arc.

RZ-1 will never shoot to the back, because lore reasons. Meaning they need other tools to help make their shots count more. Some A-Wing unique upgrade that would make the Rebel ones useful. The one we will be getting is once more better suited for the Resistance sadly. Unfortunately there is no lore explanation, why RZ-1 should get something, that RZ-2 cannot use. Which means anything to make Rebel A-Wing better will also have to be balanced for the RZ-2. Unless we get a second Faction Specific Talent, which might be interesting tbh.

Well the next Squadron Packs are the Skystrike Academy, Phoenix Squadron and I think Fugitives and Collaborators? They have the original factions vibe. We might see Wedge Antilles in a Tie/LN for example.

Since the Phoenix Squadron is mostly focusing on A-Wings with later some B- and Y-Wing support, I feel like the pack should have two A-Wings in the Phoenix Sqd paint job and the Prototype B-Wing paint job. I don't think we will get a Y-Wing, because they are in a solid place right now, with while not great a varied bunch of pilots. A-Wings have two named ones and B-Wing only recently got a third option. Which lets face it, while I would love to love Gina, she is not great... Being absolutely outclassed by even Ten Numb.

Maybe we will get a thing like the new Tie Upgrade card that goes into the Talent Slot? Limited to Rebels and A-Wing keyword? That could be interesting.

I do like those keyword upgrades. That "X-Wing" upgrade coming in the Resistance box is interesting, as hopefully that is a spoiler for the T-85.

I also like the sound of additional faction specific talents. I really like some of the existing faction talents, as they have good flavour to them, and I welcome more of that.

48 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

There were RZ-1's that could swivel their guns to the rear, but they were prone to jamming, especially when pointed to the rear. I suggest either making a single named pilot or a double limited pilot that has a turret arc on the RZ1. The pilot ability would be "After fully executing a maneuver, you may perform a rotate action. If you do, roll a die. On a blank result gain a deplete token."

I've been batting around a way to make the Lil' turret effect, and I don't think it needs to be on specific pilots. I think you can do it with a configuration flip card, and build it similar to the other configs that have two positions, and also like the hardpoint weapons that break...

Swivel mount guns, Config, RZ-1 only, grants 'Focus>Rotate' action, text: your turret indicators can only face your front or rear arc. After you perform a rotate turret action, roll a die. On a blank flip this card and gain one deplete token

(Backside) Swivel mount guns - Jammed, no granted action bar, text: Your turret indicator can not be rotated. Action: gain one strain and flip this card.

6 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

I think you can do it with a configuration flip card,

My thinking with making it 1 or 2 pilots was to not make the whole chassis RZ2's. We already have that ship in the game. RZ1's having the full swivel was not common, so that had some lore reasoning, as well, for keeping it to a few pilots. Your suggestion does come with a decent cost, however, so if a config were implemented, that design would be on the right track.

The *only* way I think flips would be interesting on an RZ-1: flip once and done. Swivel turns you from a front V attack to a rear ^ arc (not a turret, but a true rear arc), and you can never change it back. Probably best done as a pilot ability, or a ** limited config.

5 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

not make the whole chassis RZ2's

This so hard.

I get wanting to make the RZ-1 better, but turning it into essentially an RZ-2 is just the most unsatisfactory way to do that. Generics need to be cheaper . There need to be additional Limited pilots to join the good-enough Jake and Arvel, but they don't need to be busted--there just should be more of them.

@5050Saint pilots are a fair way to limit the effect for lore reasons, but I personally don't like designs that don't split the hardware from the software and bake in a firmware pairing instead. As an example, I like the old design of the guns specifically on a 2400 better than the current one. I liked that in first edition you had to pay to put the 4 die attack on as that was also a limited to specific ship thing even needing the title to do it, similar to what we're trying to do here with create a limited feature. The new 2400 has a more streamlined or maybe 'compacted' design, and it works just fine, but in the end we pay for it with a bit of lost flavor of the lore that now all 2400s have heavy laser turrets rather bizarrely. I'd rather the outrider title have carried the 4 attack and the chassis had a 3, moving other elements around as necessary of course.

And you caught it right that I was trying to put in heavy play costs so that this would just be something a few risk takers would dare play with. And I assumed that this would also have a point cost on top of that. But I'd just like to add that when I've been toying with the idea in my head I think it also had a lot of unseen play costs as well, somewhat intentionally built in. Because I agree with both you and @theBitterFig that I don't want it to just be another RZ-2 either. Also Fig, I just want it to be clear that I also agree with your that a point cost reduction would help the chassis too. I'm just pitching this as a cool extra toy, not a 'fix'.

These extra play costs I mention mostly come in the form of the action queue. I intentionally didn't just let it have white rotate in the concept, it's linked. With the above config, the Rebel A will have to commit to their rotate via only a Focus link, meaning no boost when they do it, possibly getting the attack they want but depleted, and if repairing it only being able to link boost with their ship ability afterwards while still getting a strain. (It's a riff on the power diverting idea that everyone loves from the video games. 😄 ) So the Resistance version will still be able to use the turret way better and with way more freedom of actions including repositions that the Rebel one just can't do. For example this card wouldn't let you get that awesome barrel roll into rotate combo, that's still something *only* the -2 could do thanks to its own ship ability. Let alone its other action pairs. And then like Fig said, make it a two dot limited card so you can never swarm them. Play into the idea that there weren't many ships OR pilots that were willing to use them like Saint said. I'm cool with that.

Other upside to my pitch that I personally liked was the gamble. Playing an A and flying by the seat of your pants is fun for me. And I love flying Jek also with that gambler ability too. So having a card that let me take gambler risks in an already risk taking ship sounds really fun. I'd even strongly consider upping the break check roll to higher frequency like Jeks or maybe worse. But a one and done flip sounds really boring, personally. 😕

Yeah, gamble abilities can be cool (Ibtisam ARC is wicked under-rated... I used to fly it in 1e as Braylen, and it's kinda nice). I just don't want them for turret-flips on an A-Wing. =D