I figured why not have a thread to see the community's thoughts and expectations on cross faction ships like the Arquitens. Do you want the current variants ported over to the Republic, or want new variations? How much ship overlap do you want and/or expect? I personally would love the Victory crossing over, and even getting an official Imperial I Star Destroyer model as a Republic expansion with the variants being called prototypes or testbeds.

I wonder if they could do something similar to how X-wing Miniatures treats dials, but for Armada if a ship of the same name exists for multiple factions you can use the token for either. So if there's a Republic Victory I, you could run an Imperial Victory I model/cardboard on a Republic list. But if there's some sort of Victory I-class Retrofit (instead of the Victory II) on the reverse side, that's unique to the Republic and that side can't be used in an Imperial list (and the Victory II couldn't be used on a Republic list).

It would eliminate the need to consider "conversion kits" or packing extra faction components in the expansion, at the cost of it only introducing one new statblock (and of course, whatever upgrades it comes with). Since Motti and upgrades will be in the Upgrade Card Collection, it might not be so bad if extra stand-alone Victory models came from a Republic expansion going forward; and the Core Set might be replaced by a Galactic Empire Fleet Starter / Rebel Alliance Fleet Starter, so maybe the starter could come with an extra token and Victory II card (kind of like how the X-wing 2nd Ed. Core Set has two Iden Versios, except this would actually be useful). If an Empire starter came with, say, a Victory+2xArquitens, it'd be the perfect box to include extra Imperial components while the expansions are for the Republic.

I doubt that's what will happen, but as a multi-faction player I think it's the best balance of focused content and cross-faction support.

I expect and would like to see the following:

Venator for Imps

At least one of the sep ships for rebels

VSD for republic

I don't want them to do a ton of cross faction unless they make unique configurations for those ships. I think we really want each faction to have it's identity. If they cross faction a bunch of stuff without reconfiguration then all the factions start to blur. IMHO

Giving Imps the Venator is a bad idea. The Venator was iconic to GAR. Letting Imps have that would dilute GAR faction identity. I don’t want rebels to get Rebel One (an old Providence) either

I want ships of the same physical model from different factions to operate differently. Standard equipment and tactics for a GAR Pelta and Rebel Pelta would not be the same. Same for the Arquitens. Even if the maneuver chart stays the same, upgrades slots or dice should change.

IF they did something cross faction wise, The trait system coming in clone wars would help with it a lot!!!

7 hours ago, Rune Taq said:

I don't want them to do a ton of cross faction unless they make unique configurations for those ships. I think we really want each faction to have it's identity. If they cross faction a bunch of stuff without reconfiguration then all the factions start to blur. IMHO

Agreed. That being said, I would like a plain grey Acclamator for the Empire, simply because I've always liked that ship.

Personally the only cross faction ships I want to see are the pelta and arquitens and even then I would like the GAR versions to be unique/different from the IMP ones somehow. This all stems from my desire for every faction to be unique and play uniquely and I feel alot of cross faction ships would hinder that goal.

31 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Agreed. That being said, I would like a plain grey Acclamator for the Empire, simply because I've always liked that ship.

I would like a plain grey Acclamator regardless. Whether Republic or Empire. It looks so much nicer in the grey.

3 hours ago, Church14 said:

Giving Imps the Venator is a bad idea. The Venator was iconic to GAR. Letting Imps have that would dilute GAR faction identity.

Giving Imperials a fully-functioning Venator is a bad idea, but I'd love to see a skeleton-crewed training version. Low-ish point cost but terrible upgrade bar, fewer (if any of the) keywords that would give the Republic version access to good upgrades. They were basically relegated to serving as mobile flight schools; so it could be like a bigger, slower Quasar, with very few scenarios in which it'd actually be a better choice. I don't think we'd actually see that in any official capacity, though.

3 hours ago, Church14 said:

I want ships of the same physical model from different factions to operate differently. Standard equipment and tactics for a GAR Pelta and Rebel Pelta would not be the same. Same for the Arquitens. Even if the maneuver chart stays the same, upgrades slots or dice should change.

The thing that has me worried about that is I don't want to see Armada turn into X-wing, where we won't see an Imperial Arquitens for 2+ years. It took X-wing over a year to re-release Z-95s, and while they did two versions with three ways to buy, all are Scum. The only way to get Rebel Z-95 cardboard is the conversion kit. Whereas in 1.0 a lot of Scum expansions came with extra cardboard to make use of existing models from other factions, every 2nd Edition opportunity (such as ARC-170) just... didn't. It could have been as little as an extra dial, since there's already multiple pilots, and bam someone who had a 1.0 Rebel ARC-170 but didn't get a conversion kit (maybe decided to focus on a different faction) can now use it.

I also think a lower barrier to faction-hopping would be good for players. Already have some cross-faction ships? Just pick up an expansion with another faction's commander and you can run a list for that too. If making sure no two faction's variants are the same is a priority and they don't provide extra cardboard, I guess that could come in the form of an official proxy printout PDF; maybe with rules that the proxy has to be overlayed on a valid token for the same model (ie, a printout of an Imperial Arquitens has to be placed on top of Republic Arquitens cardboard, and vice-versa). But I think that's even less likely to happen than having some overlap in ship classes.

On 8/28/2020 at 7:20 PM, Church14 said:

Giving Imps the Venator is a bad idea. The Venator was iconic to GAR. Letting Imps have that would dilute GAR faction identity. I don’t want rebels to get Rebel One (an old Providence) either

Very much agree. Each faction needs their iconic ship most associated with their faction. And in the case of the GAR it’s most certainly the Venator.

Give the Empire the Acclamator. If/when FFG bring out an Acclamator expansion pack outside the starter kit, I’d put in a card for the imperial version(s).

For the GAR, probably the Vic I.

What about a Victory I model for the Republic with the wing things?!

6 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Very much agree. Each faction needs their iconic ship most associated with their faction. And in the case of the GAR it’s most certainly the Venator.

Give the Empire the Acclamator. If/when FFG bring out an Acclamator expansion pack outside the starter kit, I’d put in a card for the imperial version(s).

For the GAR, probably the Vic I.

I understand the concern that a large amount of Republic/Imperial cross faction ships could dilute the unique feel of the factions, but there would enough differences in my opinion. An Imperial era Venator would have different available upgrades because of the keywords like "Clone", different fighters and bombers to command, and different commanders and officers. The GAR needs some late Clone Wars/early Imperial ships otherwise I'm worried that the faction will be quite limited.

7 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

I understand the concern that a large amount of Republic/Imperial cross faction ships could dilute the unique feel of the factions, but there would enough differences in my opinion. An Imperial era Venator would have different available upgrades because of the keywords like "Clone", different fighters and bombers to command, and different commanders and officers. The GAR needs some late Clone Wars/early Imperial ships otherwise I'm worried that the faction will be quite limited.

I don’t mind smaller vessels ending up cross faction. I don’t care much if a gozanti is available for three factions. My problem is when the eye candy of the faction is also available as “just another” ship in a different faction. An imperial venator is just that.

If we exhaust available different models, then Clone wars ships can get more Chimaera style treatment. 4 venator and fours acclamator variants goes fairly far.

I see an opportunity here to do what they did with the Chimera ISD.

If they release GAR VSD, pelta or Arquitines, it can come with both GAR and IMP/RA bases, and several of them, including new varients (such as protototype). The extra cardboard is easy and cheep to produce and package. This could then breath new life into GCW era ships that don't get the love. Also, some ship titles could crossover eras for famous ships. There's also options for cross era upgrades to further provide flexibility to these ships (such as the "Star Destroyer only" key phrase, could be used for GAR Venetors and VSDs, but also IMP VSDs and ISDs

To extrapolate further, this could even be used for something such as Lucrehulk prime, when, WHEN, they release this as a "small" huge ship.

I have to laugh a bit when I consider the community has been asking for Clone Wars content for years now, and if you remove duplicates, the Republic essentially has three ships. I am starting to wonder what Clone Wars releases will look like past Wave 3. Because I suspect that by Wave 3, we’ll have the Republic frigate, Acclamator, Venator, Pelta, and Arquitens. Everything left over is scraps.

2 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

I have to laugh a bit when I consider the community has been asking for Clone Wars content for years now, and if you remove duplicates, the Republic essentially has three ships. I am starting to wonder what Clone Wars releases will look like past Wave 3. Because I suspect that by Wave 3, we’ll have the Republic frigate, Acclamator, Venator, Pelta, and Arquitens. Everything left over is scraps.

The Onager is a made-up-spaceship, so I don't see why there couldn't be made-up-spaceships for the Republic.

(I know they're ALL made up. I meant more-made-up-than-made-up).

On 8/28/2020 at 10:39 PM, Rmcarrier1 said:

Agreed. That being said, I would like a plain grey Acclamator for the Empire, simply because I've always liked that ship.

Step 1: Take a Quasar

Step 2: Squint hard

Step 3: Squint harder!

Step 4: There you go! Profit!

8 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

The Onager is a made-up-spaceship, so I don't see why there couldn't be made-up-spaceships for the Republic.

(I know they're ALL made up. I meant more-made-up-than-made-up).

"Having its general design and image put into a Book before being expanded upon" made up?

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

"Having its general design and image put into a Book before being expanded upon" made up?

It was? Oh, never mind then. I know very little about the star wars books so I assumed, mostly from.how everyone was reacting on this forum, that it was an all-new design.

Still there's no reason they couldn't make up some more spaceships.

1 hour ago, flatpackhamster said:

It was? Oh, never mind then. I know very little about the star wars books so I assumed, mostly from.how everyone was reacting on this forum, that it was an all-new design.

Still there's no reason they couldn't make up some more spaceships.

The reason is licensing.

Honestly, I'd like have cross faction ships to have different ship cards/subvariants for different factions. The most prominent (and necessary) ones are Pelta and Arquitens. The Republic used the former as an unarmed support ship (freighter and cargo/supply ship; screams fleet support in Armada terms) and the latter as an actual light cruiser (for both battle and rear line) whilst in the GCW the Phoenix Home got modified into an armed Carrier whilst the Arquitens got relegated to frigate duty (comm relay, escort, patrol...). The point is that ships changed their role with the era transition. Apart from that, the shape of both ships changed so much, that new models(molds not only paintjob) are completely justified.

The Venator is a different matter, although I'd argue potential imperial variants should still have very different stats from the Republic's, for gameplay. (sharing only the mold). If I had to come up with a differentiation I'd say the empire's should be mostly Carrier whilst the Republic's would be a Battlestar-style carrier-battleship hybrid.

Although I'm set for Arquitens, I know there are still a lot of Imperial players who don't have them. So I think FFG should release a cross-faction Arquitens for the Republic and Empire. It should be in a Clone Wars Armada package and have the GAR colour scheme, but it should include come with the Empire's cards and cardboard. That way, going forward, FFG doesn't need to produce both the Imperial Light Cruiser expansion (in the old-style plastic packages) and the Republic Arquitens expansion, so there won't be a problem of a shortage of one version of the Arquitens and an over-abundance of the other.

I think the same thing should have with the Republic's Pelta and the Rebel Phoenix Home expansion. FFG should discontinue the Phoenix Home and include both Republic and Rebel cards and cardboard in the Republic Pelta expansion.

I'm not interested in Imperial Venators or Rebel Providences or Lucrehulks. I'd much rather FFG make the effort of creating new ships and/or squadrons for the Empire and Rebel factions than lazily repurposing Clone Wars ships.

Re: Imperial Venator

Why would the Empire not have access to a ship they used??

1 hour ago, axe238 said:

Re: Imperial Venator

Why would the Empire not have access to a ship they used??

Because they didn't want to use it, and got rid of it as soon as they could, because it was a symbol of the past that they deliberately tried to erase.

Some remained purely for practicalities sake, but for the most part, they went Victory and Imperial as symbols of the Empire, rather than Republic Dregs.

4 hours ago, axe238 said:

Re: Imperial Venator

Why would the Empire not have access to a ship they used??

First, understand that George Lucas and everyone else involved in Star Wars needed to explain why the Venator was never seen in the Original Trilogy. We know the reason why: Because it's a work of fiction and the OT was created before the PT. But they felt obligated to provide an in-universe explanation for why the Venator disappeared after the Clone Wars.

They invented the semi-plausible explanation that the Venator didn't fit into the Empire's naval doctrine because it was primarily a carrier, not a battleship. The Empire wanted to assert its dominance over the galaxy through big, bold symbols of power, like the Death Star and Imperial Star Destroyer, not using swarms of tiny starfighters. That's why the Venator was retired from service or redeployed to backwater sectors of the galaxy.

Second, the Empire's dramatic expansion of the military was in part an elaborate jobs program (akin to the Military Industrial Complex). Countless of millions of people were employed by the Imperial Navy and Army, and countless more millions more were employed for the production of Imperial warships, starfighters, vehicles, and weapons. If the Empire had kept all of the Venators, it would've been more difficult to justify the construction thousands of ISDs and the employment of all of those people.

Third, in terms of gameplay, I agree with @Rune Taq that it's a matter of faction identity. The Venator will presumably be the Republic's mainline warship, making it their equivalent to an ISD (even though we know the ISD is significantly more powerful). If the Empire also had access to the Venator, it's conceivable there would be Armada matches of the Republic vs. the Empire, which could involve Venators on both sides. How would that be (significantly) different than a Republic vs. Republic match? If anything, the Empire would have a distinct advantage because it would gain access to the Venator's strengths and capabilities, while retaining all of the Empire's strengths, which would make it more difficult for the Republic to be competitive.

That said, I'm not completely opposed to the concept of an Imperial Venator, but it should be a low priority. Let's wait and see how many Waves that FFG releases for Clone Wars, and if they make any new ship/squadron expansions for the Empire and Rebels. Perhaps after Wave 4 or 5 of CWA, when all of the noteworthy Prequel era ships and squadrons have been released, then an Imperial Venator might become worthwhile -- although IMO it should be handled with a "card & cardboard" conversion kit for the Republic Venator; I don't think it will be justified to create a new $40-50 ship expansion for an Imperial Venator.