So, I just learned that among the cast-off X-Wing stuff I'll be inheriting this weekend are three copies of the "Guns for Hire" 1.0 expansion. I already ordered a Scum and Villainy conversion kit so I'll have access to two of each, and have no problem springing for another kit so as to be able to use all three. I know that none of these ships are Hyperspace legal but I'm still intrigued by the idea of exploring some kind of Black Sun themed list.

Preliminary searching is mainly turning up older, pre-2.0 posts. I did find one gameplay video with four Starvipers but not a lot out there about the Kihraxz. Does someone have links to interesting/informative threads or articles I can peruse, or some insights/wisdom to share about cards that work well with these ships? I'm already a little familiar with the essential uniqueness of the Starviper's banked barrel rolls.

Mainly fishing for some fun inspiration and jumping-off points to make best use of this haul.

Many thanks in advance! 😎 🍺

If you haven't found it already - MetaWing is a good source of information. It provides analysis of lists from many tournaments and gives you a good idea of the meta. Things you can easily check out are which upgrades are used with which ships most commonly.

Cartel Marauders featured in a top 4 list at last years world championships , a scum jousting list that had a couple of tricks to it , lowering the initiative of an opponent's ship, jamming it and then blowing it up with the Kihraxz. You'll notice that the list is very light on upgrades.

I love trying to get Jostero bonus shots so that's a personal favorite, but it's not particularly 'good'. Note - dead man's switch allows him to get his bonus shot when he dies (if something's in range / arc).

Talonbane always feels like he could be good. I tend to put afterburners on him, to try and close to range one. But I'm not that good, so who knows whether that's good advice!

People tried to get Graz to work early on. It turns out getting 'behind' people is harder than you think it will be. I've been playing with the cloak device to try and get the extra maneuverability to help with that. It's fun to try.

Viktor Hel doesn't see much play either afaik - stealth device to try and trigger his ability is the obvious temptation. Again, not sure how good it is in practice.

So overall I'd say Kihraxz can be fun, but outside of Cartel Marauders / Jousting Efficiency, nothing's been shown to be really competitive.

The four StarViper list you referenced also did very well at the world champs. ( This is Oli's review of his own game)

Guri is the standout pilot for either ship though. With advanced sensors she can be very tough to catch. You often see Guri in two-ship lists with deep bids to try and get her moving last, Guri / Fenn (as piloted by Phil GC) or Boba / Guri. Fair warning - there's a high burden of execution to this.

Hope this is useful - please note, I'm a casual / flgs player who tries to follow what's going on and mixes with some good competitive players. Point being - there are some much better qualified people on this forum to offer you advice

(and the cool thing is, they're friendly and don't mind helping)

1 hour ago, eljms said:

(and the cool thing is, they're friendly and don't mind helping)

Thanks for all the tips, and the links! Heading off to watch the videos now.

Big +1 to the quote above! I'm liking the atmosphere around here, lots.

The issue with the Khirscbhfsxz is that there are better options, generally, for the same points. It’s a poor mans x wing that doesn’t have the tricks or pilot abilities of the x wing. The Torkil Mux, Seevor and 3x cartel marauders took a lot of tournaments by storm, but then people got to know how to beat it and it’s not seen much anymore. The Khirax needs something, I am not sure what, but things like Fangs or Vipers are a lot better choice.

It'll be a glorious day when K-fighters and vipers are allowed in Hyperspace.

Thanks for all the insights! I had been forming the view that the K-fighters (lots easier to type) weren't very exciting but, since I'm getting three of them for free, wanted to see whether I could work them in somehow. I might lean towards picking up a couple of Fangs and experimenting with them plus two Vipers.

Okay, been pondering this idea (and again, many thanks for the insights thus for and to @underling for the Scum Salad post, which I really didn't mean to copy but I guess the Kavil thing stuck in my mind) and have a kernel of a list concept. Not sure if I'd be better off with two Vipers and two Fangs but I kind of like Y-wings and found a deal on a 1.0 expansion with one plus two Z95s so there's that. I like the combo of Fangs plus Fearless but can't fit that in at the current cost.

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •Kavil - 46
•Kavil - Callous Corsair (43)
Dorsal Turret (2)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Guri - 70
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (64)
Outmaneuver (6)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I like the combo of Kihraxz and StarViper. I flew the following 4-ship list in 1.0 to great fun and success:

- Black Sun Ace (Predator)
- Cartel Marauder
- Black Sun Enforcer (Autothrusters)
- Black Sun Enforcer (Autothrusters)

Very simple yet efficient back then. In 2.0 you'd have 30 points to play with for the same thing (minus the Autothrusters of course) and it's probably not as solid. It could be a starting point though.

14 hours ago, admat said:

I like the combo of Kihraxz and StarViper. I flew the following 4-ship list in 1.0 to great fun and success:

- Black Sun Ace (Predator)
- Cartel Marauder
- Black Sun Enforcer (Autothrusters)
- Black Sun Enforcer (Autothrusters)

Very simple yet efficient back then. In 2.0 you'd have 30 points to play with for the same thing (minus the Autothrusters of course) and it's probably not as solid. It could be a starting point though.

I like them both, also.

I also like the M3-As.

So...

- Black Sun Enforcer [45]

- Black Sun Enforcer [45]

- Cartel Marauder [38]

- Cartel Marauder [38]

- Inaldra (M3-A) w/ Tractor beam [33]

Total 199

If you remove the tractor, you can afford Cybernetics on the Cartels, which I really like to have.

Cool list, thanks for sharing!

When my eldest daughter brought up the extra 1.0 stuff to give me, turns out her SO didn't want to part with all three "Guns for Hire" expansions so I got one each of the StarViper and Kihraxz. No problemo, I have plenty of extra cardboard thanks to the Scum Conversion Kit I purchased, and I found one each of the two fighters used online (minus cardboard stuff). Now I'll have two of each and, along with the pair of Fangs and the pair of Y-Wings I have coming, that should be plenty of fodder for some fun and interesting Scum Salad builds.

So, this is the list linked above (by @eljms ) using three K-words:

Torkil Mux (38)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Captain Seevor (30)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Total: 200

I thought I'd doink around looking for alternatives to the Ks, to see what shook out. Turns out they are, in fact, quite a bit cheaper than, say, Fangs or Vipers, which is probably why they ended up being used: you can fit three 3-dice chassis into the list and still get Seevor.

Even so, last night I tried some other variations and, in the end, decided that dropping Seevor was the simplest way to free up some points. I reckon the easy jam is useful, and I saw it used once in the linked video, but it didn't seem like a linchpin for the whole list.

So, this is a stab at using some Vipers/Fangs instead:

Torkil Mux (38)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Black Sun Assassin (48)
Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3

Black Sun Assassin (48)
Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3

Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Total: 199

Aside from Muxing someone, no Scum type shenanigans going on here so I reckon it's just "jousting beef." Still, there are three maneuverable and reasonably-hard-hitting wingmen to take advantage of the opportunity for init kills—and no single ship is a huge points sink and there is no single point of failure for the whole list. Could even go three Vipers and lose the bid but I only have two Viper models and I try to stick to lists I could field. Might be fun to drag to a FLGS session or two.

Prince Xizor (54)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Kavil (43)
Dorsal Turret (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Han Solo (10)
R4 Astromech (2)
Total: 200

Push hard with the cartels and the prince. You want to get that range 1/2 area and force your opponent to attack the cartels, while Kavil is free to unload full protons, or if enemy goes for kavil, you want those other three to be in range 1/2 to make them pay. I like the prince, as you can breakaway from the cartels early if you need too, maybe bait your opponent into attacking prince, and then send prince back into range of teh cartels, forcing your opponent to switch targets once again since hitting prince with friendlies nearby is tough AF. This tactic buys you another round with your cartels.

I like the Mux, Seevor show. I'm not sure Scum can compete too well on the joust front unless going full Fang, the interference pieces can make a big difference.

The Viper, Fang one, I also like, but feel suspicious of. I don't think it jousts at all. It offers Mux, but makes him hard to get, buying room for the semi-aces. Skull will be hard to disguise, but between him and Mux, you may be able to create some tension for the Vipers to exploit.

The semi part of the aces is where my concern lies. You have an anti full-ace tool in Mux, and low Init spam/beef tools in the fighters, but it's a delicate balance and will have to be played very well against everything.

I do like it though.

Cool stuff, thanks!

What do you guys think about replacing Xizor with Oberos at the same cost?

Here's another one:

Black Sun Assassin (48)

Black Sun Ace (40)

Black Sun Ace (40)

Black Sun Ace (40)

Seevor (30)

Total (198)

It's all I3, so sequencing is easy peasy.

OR...

Sub in a Tansarii Point Vet with a Tractor beam (32 points) for Seevor for a total of 200 points.

It's still an all I3 build. The goal, of course, would be for the TPV to shoot first and tractor, with follow-up shots from one or more of the three dice attacks.

10 hours ago, Spinland said:

Cool stuff, thanks!

What do you guys think about replacing Xizor with Oberos at the same cost?

Dalan is a strange one. His ability is very tricky to use well, since it shuts off just about anything else you'd like to do, such as modding his shots, lol. Makes using it a generally worse idea than not using it. Xisor can pretty much just run as he is and shunt damage off as and when, giving you a basic I4 Viper, with a side order of conditional durability.

Dalan becomes more fun and ridiculous when you start including things to make the most of his crazy manouevrability and ace qualities. At that point he becomes too much of a point sink, either in upgrades or a support ship, to be in any way efficient.

However, I love him. Give him a passive mod, such as Outmanouevre or Predator, figure out the insane puzzle of Adv Sensors and his rotate, he'll absolutely dunk on anything lower Init than him.

I added ProTorps, well as AS and Outmanouevre, ran him with Swarm Tactics Fenn and a Recruit at a store tourney once, aiming for pure entertainment rather than results. I think it was the worst run of dice luck I'd ever had, so it didn't go great, but the squad actually played so much better than expected and had a fair bit of promise. I was this close to beating 5A, diced all game and then bitten ridiculously hard on the last turn, where the odds were somehow still stacked in my favour. :eyeroll:

But he did completely wreck some Vultures, 4v1, in my last game of the day

Dalan is basically an expensive luxury, to me.

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Dalan is a strange one. His ability is very tricky to use well, since it shuts off just about anything else you'd like to do, such as modding his shots, lol.

Ah. Because by gaining the stress token he loses his action. Didn't think of that.

That's why I post this stuff here! Thanks!