As I imagine many of you would agree, Star Wars has been inconsistent and/or very light on details regarding how communications and the "internet" works, so I want to do some theorizing to create a system of sorts for how it works.

I use earthen terms like "TV" "radio" and "streaming services" to represent the analogous concepts in-universe, even if they would not necessarily correlate directly.

Holonet:
My understanding is that the Empire took over the holonet when it came to power, restricting access.

However, this would not really affect individual planets, and I imagine that they would have their own "internet" that operates similarly to our internet. This would be localized, not really allowing for communication between systems.

So while only licensed people can access the galactic holonet (aka Space Google), pretty much anyone (planetary authorities willing) can access the local internet. It's important to note that you would still be unable to access it from space, if you were outside a particular range.

I imagine that there would be large companies (Planetary Internet Providers, or PIPs), heavily regulated and controlled by the Empire and probably restricted to operations within certain sectors, that provide internet services to planets by cloning databases and installing the infrastructure. So, similar to purchasing internet, a planet has to purchase the service, the infrastructure, and a package of generic web services/databases (e.g. Google, email services, social media, video hosting services, etc.) and would then expand naturally as the population fills it out. This would be primarily for smaller, typically poorer planets and systems, as large planets like Coruscant would have a variety of services present across the world which would have been around for much longer.

For all intents and purposes, streaming services and broadcasts like TV and radio would function the same. There would no longer be galaxy-wide channels, except for syndicated channels provided by either particular PIPs or state-run news and propaganda channels that the Empire forces all PIPs to carry as part of all of their packages. Aside from any provided channels (think your old movie channels, NBC, FOX, ABC, etc.), you then have your "local news" channels, local networks, etc.

Communications:
There are basically three types of communication:

1. Instant voice and audio/visual
2. Instant text
3. Delayed voice, A/V, and text

For instant voice and A/V, this would be very expensive even when it was available to the citizenry. Space magic and super-hyperspace transmissions. Only possible on worlds, stations, ships etc. that have powerful transmission boosters. Not to be confused with comms, which operate more like radio and are not as targeted, easier to intercept, and very short-ranged.

The communications are routed through the ship's or planet's, and then system's relay and sent through hyperspace at incredible speed by pinging off of hyperspace buoys (plot hook anyone?), allowing for minimum time delay. This makes no sense from a scientific perspective, but neither does much of Star Wars. Let's roll with it.

I separate instant text only because it would be less expensive. Without the need for AV, the transmissions would be easier to send and receive and the data size would be significantly smaller. Still very expensive though.

For both of the above, I consider this best treated as narrative expensiveness, like how you probably don't charge your players for their daily bread (or forgive them their debts, but that's another matter) or their new pair of socks (or possibly even ship fuel). This is also easily handwaved by calling collect if they are just communicating with their employer. This also makes long separations more difficult (and therefore, more narratively interesting) as it is harder for them to communicate with family, especially if in a tight spot financially.

As for delayed voice, A/V, and text, this would be basically digital snail mail. Data transmission sent to a "mail carrier," which is basically a hyperspace-capable data-courier drone. They bounce between systems, dropping off their information load at the planet/system's relay station, from where it is either transmitted to the surface or sent to another drone that takes it to the next world in line. This way, each drone has a single hyperspace route they take backwards and forwards frequently, each world sending drones to each neighboring world (or cycling drones through) without passing another world (so Coruscant-Brentaal would be Coruscant-Alsakan-Grizmallt-Anaxes-Corulag-Chandrila-Brentaal since it transfers at each system). The time your data transmission takes to reach the location depends on the frequency of pickups. I'll suggest a table for transmission times at the bottom of the post.

Richer worlds may be able to fund instant interstellar communications as a public utility, allowing more people access to it. This would still be a rarity however, and would likely only be possible on worlds like Coruscant that have a very large tax base, and a high population of wealthy residents. Making this system more workable is that most people would have no need to communicate to others offworld, especially the poor on a world like Coruscant.

Hyperspace calculator
Hyperspace travel times thread

Snail mail interstellar communications time modifiers:
Deep Core: 2
Core Worlds: 1
Colonies: 1
Inner Rim: 2
Expansion Regions: 2-4
Mid Rim: 4-8
Outer Rim: 8-16
Wild Space: 32
Unknown Regions: 16

Alternatively, volume modifiers:
Very high: 1
High: 2
Moderate: 4
Low: 8
Very low: 16
Practically non-existent: 32

Hyperdrive class, for simplicity's sake, can simply be 1. This means you take the base hyperdrive travel time and multiply it by the modifier.

I imagine that with exceptions for frequent communication between specific locations, this will not be especially helpful for you. Here's a less dynamic, but faster and simpler way to do it: Inches*6*6. (or, Inches*1.5=X days)
That 6 is a variable so that you can change the baseline as necessary if you are working with a different scale of map or want different travel times. The distance is based off of the map in the CRBs. Each grid square is 1,500 parsecs squared, so the inch/time ratio is roughly equal to 500 parsecs an hour.

I REALLY like your take on how communications would exist in a Star Wars universe!

I am going to share this with my players and get their input before fully implementing.

As far as the “transmission / reception speed”... I appreciate all of the thought and work you put in. I am still a believer in the maxim that important information needs to move at “the speed of story.” I don’t want to give up that powerful GM story tool / crutch LOL.

Great job!!

Nice job. I think it's always dangerous to overthink these things, but I just treat it as what we have today, with the only real difference being that some nodes can communicate with each other superluminally.

On 8/24/2020 at 11:51 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The communications are routed through the ship's or planet's, and then system's relay and sent through hyperspace at incredible speed by pinging off of hyperspace buoys (plot hook anyone?), allowing for minimum time delay. This makes no sense from a scientific perspective, but neither does much of Star Wars.

That's actually how it works IRL, your Zoom chat participant signals are pinging off many many routers (hyperspace buoys) before everyone's signal gets resolved and you see/hear the result...moment by moment. The only difference is the speed of transmission between nodes.

And ultimately as @Bren Silet said, "speed of story" is the most important element.

7 minutes ago, whafrog said:

That's actually how it works IRL, your Zoom chat participant signals are pinging off many many routers (hyperspace buoys) before everyone's signal gets resolved and you see/hear the result...moment by moment. The only difference is the speed of transmission between nodes.

And ultimately as @Bren Silet said, "speed of story" is the most important element.

Yeah, it's just a matter of the ludicrous distances involved that make instant communication questionable.

As for speed of story, to each their own. I typically prefer having "rules" for the story to abide by.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

As for speed of story, to each their own. I typically prefer having "rules" for the story to abide by.

Sure, but in this case it's pretty much impossible to invent given that the media breaks those rules anyway. People spent ages coming up with some rationale for "hyperspace multipliers" and how fast one could get through hyperspace sector by sector, only to have it all destroyed when TCW S2E9 came out, and they jumped from Coruscant to Saleucami in a couple of minutes. The only solution being that there is no speed limit, and it's the quality of the data for the route that matters. So if there is no speed limit, then distance is irrelevant, ludicrous or not. The only reason for multiple relays would be to get around obstacles or provide redundancy/capacity.

I need to rewatch that episode. I've heard it cited, but my memory is that the time in transit was left vague.

However, I still prefer to stick to defined "rules" as far as my games go, even when the official material might not. Especially as I prefer to be able to suspend disbelief. Exhibit A for that is how in the canon comic books 3PO/Chewbacca are on an unsettled planet in Wild Space and are able to communicate with Luke and Han/Leia in real time with handheld comlinks while the others are in completely different parts of the galaxy, quite distant (Han/Leia were in the core, not sure about Luke). That really broke the immersion for me.

I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.

2 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.

Holograms/hologram communications have always been a part of Star Wars, as have instant interstellar communications.

35 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.

This is a very cool idea as well! Especially - I think - for when the Empire is in control and is using its power of oppression to literally “suppress” communications that individuals or groups (whom they would nodoubtedly dub “terrorist groups”) might use for purposes of insurrection / active rebellion. For those Imperial officials who actually *believe* what they are doing and what they are doing is good and just, they could legitimately use that suppression in order to curtail the plots hatched by real criminal groups (Hutts, Black Sun, etc.) as well.

And it very much reflects the “time travel” effect for those of us who watched the original movie back in 1977. There was no internet back then (at least that we knew of and utilized). It also gives you a more “remote” flavor for your PCs ... the galaxy is vast and the PCs are but dots on a speck of dust somewhere struggling to survive.

The more you [the GM] curtail communications in your game universe for your players, the more that feeling of isolation and insignificance will dominate. For an “Explorers” campaign ... maybe even a “colonists” campaign this could be very useful.

Maybe approach this as if the rudimentary holonet is “a thing” the closer you get to Core Worlds...?

Great discussion

In the Republic/Clone Wars era, I treat comms/holonet as being pretty open, if largely for convenience. In the Imperial era, they have a much tighter grip on communications and interstellar communication is not really possible unless you have access to a shadowfeed (including the Rebellion's) or are authorized by the Empire

30 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

In the Republic/Clone Wars era, I treat comms/holonet as being pretty open, if largely for convenience. In the Imperial era, they have a much tighter grip on communications and interstellar communication is not really possible unless you have access to a shadowfeed (including the Rebellion's) or are authorized by the Empire

I like this idea.

We do see multiple instances of intergalactic hologram messages that are “live” - not recorded - in the Prequels.

It surely makes sense that the Empire would crack down on this free communication and attempt to squash it and at least censor / control it.

Again, great discussion that helps to add background structure to our campaigns!

The book Master & Apprentice (I think) alludes to some aspects of how hyperlanes work, as well as the new Thrawn trilogy.

I like the beacons/buoys for travel and communication, particularly rogue/pirate installations to avoid using the Holonet, which the Empire controls completely, meaning everything is monitored and ISB follows up.

Of course I prefer to put my games in the outer rim and further out, so major hyperlanes are few, and inconvenient to use (for several reasons).

So, thanks for this. I'll have to read more properly tomorrow. But I like what I skimmed.

About the buoys:

I had a few ideas for how to use them as plot hooks.
First off, tampering with the buoys or data-drones would be extremely illegal.

But if you do... a datatap on the buoys feeds you what information passes through. Given how restricted the use of instant communications is, this will be high-risk high-reward as the transmissions aren't likely going to be Lucy and Ethel tying up the telephone lines. You'll be intercepting Imperial transmission or highly-placed members of society and corporations. On the other hand, the Empire will want to crack down on this behavior and will not take kindly to such actions if they are discovered.

Then there's the possibility for some buoys to go offline, either through natural causes, accidents, military action, or terrorist attacks. This works both for fringers, Rebels, and Imperials. If the Rebel shadowfeed suddenly cuts out, maybe the Imperials cut their access to the buoys to prevent them calling for help (or just because they found it). For Imperials, maybe the Rebels or extremists took them offline. Now (depending on the cause) you've got to investigate, recapture, repair, replace, etc. the buoys to restore functionality. For fringers or Rebels, perhaps you've got to lay buoys for a shadowfeed or tap in to existing buoys.

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Holograms/hologram communications have always been a part of Star Wars, as have instant interstellar communications.

I'll take an intuitive leap and assume an original trilogy focus for Michel -- in which case holograms aren't inconsistent with what was said. Leia's is a Super 8 reel, and we only see real-time 3D communications on the largest starships in the galaxy.

The Prequels expanded tech for narrative convenience and continued through Rebels -- which I get, and am okay with as long as old-school interpretations are still allowed. (Curiously, Greef Karga's invitation to Mando was one-way, which I loved.)

5 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I need to rewatch that episode. I've heard it cited, but my memory is that the time in transit was left vague.

Depends what you mean by "vague". It's probably more than 2 minutes, and definitely less than 10...but given that most estimates would put the travel time at hours or days, the difference in minutes hardly matters.

3 minutes ago, wilsch said:

I'll take an intuitive leap and assume an original trilogy focus for Michel -- in which case holograms aren't inconsistent with what was said. Leia's is a Super 8 reel, and we only see real-time 3D communications on the largest starships in the galaxy.

The Prequels expanded tech for narrative convenience and continued through Rebels -- which I get, and am okay with as long as old-school interpretations are still allowed. (Curiously, Greef Karga's invitation to Mando was one-way, which I loved.)

Notably, an Imperial ship. I think that lines up pretty well with my interpretation.

I interpreted Greef's invitation to Mando as a "Leave a message at the tone... *BEEP*" sort of thing. If it was one-way, then that's pretty cool.

19 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

About the buoys:

I had a few ideas for how to use them as plot hooks.
First off, tampering with the buoys or data-drones would be extremely illegal.

But if you do... a datatap on the buoys feeds you what information passes through. Given how restricted the use of instant communications is, this will be high-risk high-reward as the transmissions aren't likely going to be Lucy and Ethel tying up the telephone lines. You'll be intercepting Imperial transmission or highly-placed members of society and corporations. On the other hand, the Empire will want to crack down on this behavior and will not take kindly to such actions if they are discovered.

Then there's the possibility for some buoys to go offline, either through natural causes, accidents, military action, or terrorist attacks. This works both for fringers, Rebels, and Imperials. If the Rebel shadowfeed suddenly cuts out, maybe the Imperials cut their access to the buoys to prevent them calling for help (or just because they found it). For Imperials, maybe the Rebels or extremists took them offline. Now (depending on the cause) you've got to investigate, recapture, repair, replace, etc. the buoys to restore functionality. For fringers or Rebels, perhaps you've got to lay buoys for a shadowfeed or tap in to existing buoys.

My imagination took off reading this - great story ideas to insert into most any campaign!!

On 8/26/2020 at 12:34 PM, micheldebruyn said:

I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.

I agree and I feel things like Email/Casual Hypertransmitter use break Star Wars story-wise for me. I don't condemn people doing it how they want to do it, but I just prefer it to be space fantasy where you have communication that works only as the story needs it.

I have droids deliver data-slates and datachips with messages on them, and I treat the Hypertransmission services like the telegraph in the Old West. The Empire has the HoloNet slaved so they can send such transmissions but even for them the tech is unpredictable and may require moving out of an asteroid field to try and send a clear transmission.

I feel its best to follow the master molds:

• Samurai Movies
• Old West
• WWII Pacific Theatre
• Flash Gordon

For me, when Star Wars starts to feel like Cyberpunk it stops feeling like Star Wars to me. But in the cartoons and other material the instant commo is shown so yeah.

On 8/26/2020 at 3:34 PM, micheldebruyn said:

I prefer my Star Wars to not have anything remotely resembling modern communication tech and internet and he like. It has 70s tech with a sci-fi coat of paint. Comlinks aren't cell phones, they're walkie-talkies.

That's basically where I land, though I'd probably say comlinks are sort of a cross between an early cell phone and a walkie talkie. I think of them, basically as fairly short range radios, but assume there are enough channels available that people can have one that is close to unique. Bring a larger comlink (such as would be found on a ship) into play and you get a longer range.

Whether satellites can be relied on to boost comms range, assuming a planet that would even have satellites, is generally a function of the level of Imperial control of that planet. The tighter their grasp the harder it is for "normal people" to utilize satellites. I assume Imperials can basically always use them, and probably very rich or very powerful civilians. Getting and maintaining access to long-range communication is a constant struggle for the Rebellion.

None of this is remotely secure -- anyone who happens to be on the right channel can freely listen, and it's best practice to assume that the Imps are listening. Encryption can help with this -- without the key, the eavesdropper hears noise, but even that's only as secure as your codes.

Assuming the PCs have access to a comms method with sufficient range to get to whomever they want to talk to, though, I'm basically okay with instantaneous communication. Science and tech in Star Wars is wonky enough that instant communication over insane distances doesn't bug me.

It's hard to make it feel right because it is basically a technology that seems to work when the story needs it to work. Players are always going to want to use something that is to their advantage and I understand that, but you can ruin things pretty fast if constant communication is available. Communicating across the galaxy can maybe be described as radio transmission as others have described, with weird interference and other technical difficulties being common. I think that if you are going to have a small ship and have it be able to communicate across vast distances like that then some sort of a network is implied. A giant antenna like the one on Scarif is hard to rationalize if a 10 metric ton X-wing can transmit a signal strong enough to be reliably received across the galaxy. I know it's not sci fi and all that but it helps to at least have some way to make sense of this stuff so that players are not attempting to be a 3d creature in 4d space. There has to be some understanding of what can be done at least on the character's part if not the player's.

A Destiny Point to send a clear transmission? A new McGuffin in the form of a Hyperwave Transmission Tower on the edge of the settlement territory? A Computers check that is outstanding in the positive results? I am just spitballing as to how the communication can be used without it becoming boring and story-killing. I like how in the Death Star Luke suddenly remembers the com-link, and every time I do the same thing. I am always like oh man I forgot that was an option lol.

As a player my primary concern would be that it is consistent. If there is no "cell phone" equivalent then there isn't, but the GM would need to abide by that as well. So that if the PCs committed a crime, even "on camera", local police would not have that picture instantly. They could only get out a description, which if it was a populous world would be pretty useless. lack of communication would need to work both ways if is an absence of the technology.

Having said that, as a GM I play a much more "modern" game than some. On a planetary scale there is a lot of instant holographic communication. There is planetary internet, etc. And there is a Galactic Net, which, yes, the Empire controls. There is a very good argument that the Empire suppresses communication as part of its control, but the Empire is a creation of only some 25 years. The developments of 1000 prior years don't, to me, simply disappear overnight.