I've been playing non-competitively for a little over a year, often with my son, and we're having a hard time figuring out what commanders work "best" for different play styles.

I like to go light on my commander, and I usually either go Veers / Imperial Officer for empire, and he tends to go Leah for Rebels much for the same reason.

We have also run Vader, the Emperor, Luke, Han, Chewie, and I'm just about done painting the Rebel Officer, so that will be in the mix soon.

Luke seems to be decent, but expensive just like Vader and the Emperor. I've run Luke in a speeder and that seems to be the best way to get him into combat without drawing all the firepower on the board(My son does the same thing with Leah and has good luck with her). In an 800 point game, sinking over 1/4 of your points into a commander seems a bit of a gamble. Same for Boba Fett/Bossk operatives, but they perform well at times. However, I've had Bossk die from 1 turn of shooting from a kitted-out Rebel squad as well, which cost me that game.

We have Clone Wars, and are going to be running the 2 commanders in that set eventually, but I'm seeing a lot of people using Doku over Grevious. Thoughts on CW commanders would be helpful as well so that we can plan our purchases accordingly.

I was hoping that I could get a general idea of what people thought of these, and other commanders (and perhaps specialists as well). The good, the bad, the ugly.

For commanders: I was looking at the Rogue 1 options, as they both look good, and krennic is interesting as well.

For specialists, I'm looking at Sabine Wren, and I just picked up Cad Bane, since the idea of having 3 bounty hunters is appealing to me even if they can't all be run together.

I can really only speak to the CW Separatist commanders since they are all I’ve played, but my thoughts would be:

Grievous

Pros:

· massive 8 health-pool and red dice saves

· two command upgrade slots so you don’t have to choose between taking Aggressive Tactics and something else

· Arsenal and two lightsaber attacks let him hit hard in melee

· his weapon upgrade is a Versatile ranged weapon that gives him more options both in and out of melee

· Scale and Relentless make him a pretty mobile threat

Cons:

· 2 courage means less of a panic safety net for your corps units, and it also means he’ll panic fast if he’s focused.

· only has Block , not Deflect , which is only a smallish downgrade IMO

· no surges, but he does surge to crit when attacking force users from Jedi Hunter .

· his command cards are (I have been told) a little lackluster when you compare them with Dooku’s. That’s not to say they’re “bad” but they aren’t super versatile with what you can do with them. I suspect his 2- and 3-pip cards will become a little more synergistic with the rest of his faction as time goes on and more units are released.

To sum up Grievous, he is kind of the definition of a beatstick commander, and if you like melee units, you are going to like Grievous’ playstyle. While he does like to get stuck in and engage with your opponent’s units, he doesn't have access to force powers that give other units like Luke/Vader more leverage in melee engagements. All that means is despite his health and defenses, he needs to choose his fights a little more carefully than those units.

I can say (and other people should feel free to correct me) that Grievous kind of set the standard for me for what the mechanical “theme” is for Separatists compared to the Republic, and that is that your corps units are more or less sacrificial pawns that you use to support your more effective and expensive commanders/operatives/heavies. You’ll still use your B1s/B2s and company to take objectives, but don’t expect them to be as good at holding them as their commanders are because white saves are… white saves. As an aside, the Republic’s theme would be that you have slightly stronger and more expensive corps units that your commanders or operatives support, whether that’s with scads of useful tokens or buffs to range and movement.

Dooku

Pros:

· 3 force power upgrade slots + Mastery of the Force 2 means you can really get a lot out of the force upgrades you put on him.

· 3 courage which puts him at +1 over Grievous

· red defense dice and Deflect , standard force user fare

· he gets a lightsaber and a ranged force lightning weapon, and he surges to crit

· his Makashi Mastery makes him very good against Immune: Pierce units in melee

· his command cards are really good. One gives him Relentless and Arsenal for one turn, another lets you shuffle two of your opponent’s order tokens back into their stack, and his last one lets you move a unit that you attack with your ranged lightning.

· Cunning means you win priority on ties with his command cards

Cons:

· no Jump , Scale , or native Relentless / Charge means he is very slow to get to engagements or to move around the table in general compared to other force users

· only one command upgrade slot so you have fewer choices with what you can run here when he’s your only commander

· he’s very expensive points-wise. 205 + whatever upgrades you put on him and you’re going to want to fill every slot, he’s that good.

Dooku is my favorite so I’m very biased, but he brings so much to CIS mechanically and thematically that I don’t think I’ll ever not take him (unless I’m running something points-greedy like double AAT). He’s definitely not as tough or mobile as Grievous, but he still hits very hard and brings utility to his engagements in the form of force powers and his command cards. A popular build choice has been to run both Dooku and Grievous (made possible by the low cost of the B1 droids) in case you decide to pick them both up, and it also means you’re not stuck just using Grievous’ command cards.

I can’t really speak to Cad Bane’s pros/cons yet just because I haven’t been able to play a game with him, and any thoughts I have about him are pure theory crafting rn. I would say that since he is the only operative available to CIS as of now, adding him to a list is useful for getting a higher activation count without having to run a second commander.

I may expand this list as I get time and put together more thoughts, but I recently got the chance to break in Iden Versio (Empire Commander). My opinions will change once Inferno Squad is out but for now:

Iden Versio

Pros:

-Stats: Red Saves and 3 Courage make her strong for defensive support for your Corps units and she surges to hit

- Marksman and Nimble mean that both primary tokens have additional use for her, making her incredibly versatile on the field, which is a running theme in her role on the battlefield. Combine this with her Quick Thinking action and she can become a potent defender

-She can be deployed as an operative and paired with another commander in addition to her Infiltrate keyword allowing her to quickly capture victory points or take up key positions to make the most use out of her command cards

-Both her DLT-20A and TL-50 Repeater offer strong offensive advantages. The DLT can nullify the Rebel "Nimble Dance" with High Velocity and help keep characters like Obi-wan from being able to use Soresu Mastery. Meanwhile, the TL-50 is less special but allows a larger dice roll (comparable to the primary armament of the Republic Saber Tank)

- Loadout allows you to set two set-ups for Iden and then run the one that seems the most appropriate

- Tactical Strike can be used to really empower Special Forces and Incapacitate can be incredibly useful against Corps units

-The addition of ID-10 and her Red Melee dice can make her dangerous to confront in melee (and the ID-10 gives her a shield, which is nice)

Cons:

-Her command cards are almost all based around her and her alone, with only one card allowing you to issue orders to units other than herself

-Her versatility can easily become a weakness: if she is loaded-out for one kind of fight and gets involved in another she can be quickly taken out (in my game, I ran the TL-50 against my opponent's troopers, which worked great until Sabine and some Tauntauns focused her down, resulting in her death)

-She had no open upgrade slots for Commands, which can hinder her ability as a primary leader

-Her expense can grow very quickly from 100pts as a base up to just under 150pts, which isn't terrible for an Imperial Commander with her abilities, but it's a lot of points to sink into someone who is supposed to be issuing orders to your troops and can be quickly outclassed if the opponent can apply the correct pressure

"I remember my last loadout. The day the Legion match was played"

Iden is essentially a one woman army: the firepower of a Republic Tank, the melee prowess of a Wookiee, and the defense of a Droideka all in one package. Her added ability to decide her loadout at deployment and change to an operative before the game has begun makes her hard to plan and account for; a strong wild card that can throw off an opponent. However, this comes at the cost of her ability to lead an army. She can't order Corps units directly and only really synergizes with Special Forces units (and the upcoming Inferno Squad), so army comp to make the most of her can get very high in points and very low in activations.

Overall, she basically an operative you can field as a commander. She works best when given one specific mission, leaving the task of commanding the army to someone else while she goes after objectives or targets single opponents with help of a Special Forces unit or two.

Side Note: I'd add a quick anecdotal list pair that I've tried. The Iden Hammer puts focus on Iden as a frontline commander and relies on her and teams of Spec. Ops troopers marching straight at the enemy. I used this in conjunction with Death Troopers and had pretty devastating results once I pulled off the Tac Strike. Another way I've run her is as a scalpel- I gave her the sniper rifle and set her up in a distant and higher position in order for her to pick away at open troopers and commanders. She wasn't the star of the show in that list, but it worked well for making my opponent respect my battle line and keep his named units' heads down. My philosophy is that Iden is a Hammer or a Scalpel, but never try to make her play as both.

Another Commander I like to run is Krennic, so I'll cover him and I should be able to hit Veers as well in a bit.

Director Orson Krennic

Pros:

- Entourage makes it so you are able to bring a four Special Forces Unit (3 of your choice + one unit of Death Troopers)

-Primary weapon has one of each die and has Pierce 1 , which works well with his Sharpshooter keyword

-Command cards are all about control over the action economy. Voracious Ambition allows you to basically rig your random order pool so you always have a choice in who you activate. Deploy the Garrison gives your Troopers a free Standby action, allowing them to move or shoot before their turn without eating their activation entirely. Finally, Annihilation Looms allows you to out-supress the enemy in later rounds of the game if you can separate them from their commander. All of this in IN ADDITION to his Cunning unique keyword with lets him immediately win ties for Command Priority with his commands

-Two Command upgrades allows you to impose both a Commanding Presence and Strict Orders for strong order control and better ability to suffer the suppression of the above command

-Lower point cost means you can run other operatives along side him and still stay competitive in activations

Cons:

-Primary weapon is nice, but is only range 2, making it more of a hold-out option than a primary combat tool

-Low (2) courage make it so that his own command can suppress him, making reliance on Rally a bit heavier.

-White Saves make him reliant on either the Guardian keyword added by an upgrade or on staying out of line of sight since he only has 6 health

-synergy works well with suppression builds, but any other kind of build will not be making the most use of his commands or abilities, and control of the action economy encourages running more Corps units to up the act. count, which can somewhat limit your list building

"So I'm still in command?"

Krennic is very good at one thing: Suppression. His cards and his ability to control the order pool make him dangerous to play against if you're focusing on dumping heaps of Suppression onto the enemy. This can thin the herd in the late game, as troops get more spread out and if you can take out a commander you can hinder an opponent's ability to mitigate that suppression. Unfortunately, you also have to be able to survive that suppressive Annihilation Looms card, and you have to be able to keep Krennic alive long enough to use it to it's fullest extent. If you can attrition the enemy down and win in the trenches, Krennic can bolster your ability to make tactical decisions and force enemies off the board in panic, but if the rolls don't go your way or the enemy can outlast you then Krennic is more likely to choke on his own ambition than win the day.

Final word, he is a ton of fun to play if you like that Imperial "Wear them down with fire" mentality but requires careful planning and the ability to prevent the enemy from disrupting your plans or it could very easily fall apart.

@evo454 , thanks for the breakdowns of Iden and Krennic. I've only ever played Legion against my friend. I play Imperial, he plays Rebels, so my only real knowledge of tactics. strategy, and unit information is from first-hand experience, and what I read here. I like playing Krennic, and your rundown of him has helped me better understand how to use it. I've never fielded Iden yet, and that breakdown should help give me ideas on how to best use her. Looking forward to see what you put together for Veers also.

You said that you've run Veers before, but I'll still run through him from my own experience for the sake of anyone else using this thread for ideas. (also, you didn't have to wait long @oreet !)

General Veers

Pros:

-Red Saves gives him some extra survivability

- Spotter 2 action allows him to boost other troopers with Aim tokens

-Upgrades for two commands and a gear allow you to equip upgrades to help mitigate suppression and control the order range

-Lowest point cost among named Commander

-Command cards synergize well with Vehicles and units with exhaustible weapons or cards. Evasive Maneuvers allows for vehicles to cancel crits with dodge tokens, making them tougher for a turn, while Maximum Firepower makes for a great focus fire or commander killer

Cons:

-weapons allow for Precise, Sharpshooter, and Pierce , but only rolls 3 White Dice, making them very hard to take advantage of

-Lack of additional upgrade slots makes him less modifiable (and the lack of an Entourage or other externally effective keywords makes him very singular)

-command cards can be reliant on using vehicles, which can be very expensive to take advantage of while still staying viable in activation count

- Maximum Firepower can only be used against enemies that are MORE then range 4 away from Veers, meaning that close combat units can avoid the blast by staying in proximity. Also, four Red dice SOUNDS great, but is rarely enough to take out a unit that has no other wounds, so it mostly ends up being used (by me) to get first activation and then plink away at a distant enemy I may get around to fighting eventually)

-2 Courage makes him very prone to focus fire panic, so he can take the hits with his saves but the suppression can quickly drive him from the board if the enemy focus' on him

"I am General Maximillian Veers . I will MAY have results"

In the end, Veers is a commander I take when I specifically want to take multiple vehicles or if I have some extra points to upgrade from the generic Imperial commander. His upgrades and skills allow him to be a good booster general for other troops around him, but lackluster or situational cards make him a third or fourth pick in my mind. An friend of mine once played with him and did very well leveraging his speeders and tank against an enemy with a similarly vehicle-heavy list, but every time I've tried to do something similar I've just not gotten it to work.

That said, he is cheap enough that his weaknesses can be compensated for by adding operatives, supports, and heavies and gives you more points to upgrade them, making him a good basic or back-up commander for a less focused* army. My final word is that while I haven't personally had much success with him, he is not without his merits and can be a strong choice in the right situation.

*A "Focused" army means, to me, an army which is built around one or two primary strategies such as Krennic's Suppression build or an Iden Hammer build.

I wanted to change pace, so I'll do a Republic Commander. He's one of my favorites, but that bias is likely because his paint job turned out to be one of the best in my collection!

Obi-wan Kenobi

Pros:

-Red Save, Six Health, and 3 Courage makes him a formidable single opponent and courage boost for corps units

-Main weapon has the same attack power as the Republic Saber Tank in addition to Critical 2, Impact 2, and Pierce 2 AND he has Charge just to make him a nightmare for corps units and operatives

-He is one of three other units with both Force and Command upgrade slots, which can balance him as both a commander and a combatant

- Guardian 3 in conjunction with Soresu Mastery can allow him to keep Corps units protected while advancing on the enemy (and red saves makes his likehood of taking wounds even lower if leveraged right!)

-Commands make him very versatile and opens up how he can be used. Hello There grants you a token for every enemy unit near Kenobi (and forces your opponent to say "General Kenobi!" after you use it), Knowledge and Defense is much the same but grants tokens for friendly units while allowing him to use Guardian in melee, and finally General Kenobi allows for friendly units to gain tokens for other friendly units nearby

- Jump allows him to get into better positions and move around the battlefield without issue, keeping him close to his troops

Cons:

-Command cards are only useful while Obi-wan is close to his troopers or the troopers are daisy-chained very carefully, which can be hard to plan out while an enemy is gunning down your boys

-lack of a ranged attack without equipping Saber Throw makes him a 100% Melee trooper

-his 6 wounds makes him hard to kill, but can get easily overextended if you use Guardian too much, limiting his ability to simply soak damage for other units (future Medic expansion may help to alleviate this but for now its 6 then dead)

-Point cost can make it hard to work other big units in (for now this isn't too big an issue unless you want to take a Tank with you, but it could be a bigger problem down the line once AT-RT's are released)

"This commander is your live, don't lose it."

Having run Kenobi a time or two, I have found that he really comes into his own as a support Commander rather than a direct damage commander. Yes, his lightsaber and Hello There! card make it very tempting to simply drop a melee bomb on enemy corp units or make him go aggressive and take out an operative or commander, but this will leave your own corps units vulnerable if relying on Guardian . If you can keep the enemy from focusing him down, he can be quite durable and help keep less protected Corps units in the game longer while boosting their effectiveness when fighting in a group. However, his reliance on an unbroken chain of troopers or a Corps Ball to make his commands effective can make objectives hard to take and hold (despite the durability of even Phase I Clones) and it's easy to feel like he's being under utilized if he's just always on defense.

My suggestion would be to either ball him up with Corps units on an objective and dare the enemy to come in and get you or organize your forces for a collective, unified offensive push. Ultimately, these are the only two strategies I've found that really work while making the most of his abilities as a Commander. This is not to say that he cannot be an effective leader-killer or aggressive gummer*, but it would be a waste of his skills and strengths. I love running him, but that's because he fits my two primary modes of thinking (Hole up and outlast vs Run down the enemy's throat and break them). Future releases may improve or weaken his position as a top choice for Commander, but that is yet to be seen as of typing.

*at my tables, we have a slang term for troops called "gum troops". Typically, they are semi-disposable troopers who exist only to keep the enemy occupied and unable to advance/put together a strategy while your own troops pick away at them, take objectives, recover, etc. I use them either to funnel approaching units into a kill-zone, or ram them up the gut and break the opponent's formation by forcing them to deal with the annoyance in the middle of their ranks before advancing.

Vader = Force User gives access to some great upgrades like Force Choke, lightsaber throw, Anger, force reflexes, etc

+ Red Dice with Pierce

+ Courage "-" no drawbacks from suppression

+ Deflect

+ Immune to Pierce

+ Great Defense

+ Relentless

- Slow Movement

- Courage "-" no benefits from suppression

- super expensive

Palpatine = Force User gives access to some great upgrades like Force Choke, lightsaber throw, Anger, force reflexes, etc

+ Command

+ 6 dice ranged with pierce

+ Courage 4 best courage in the game

+ Immune to Pierce

+ Great Defense - best defense almost in the game

+ Master of the Force 2 (recharge those cool Force powers)

+ Entourage Imperial Guards (almost needs them to keep alive with bodyguard)

- Slow Movement

- only 5 wounds

- super expensive

Imp Officer

Cheaper, less effective Veers. No command cards

I feel like speed 1 isnt being emphasized enough as a weakness for Vader or Palpatine.

Speed 1 is absolutely crippling for both of them unless you manage to get a scenario that works in your favor like breakthrough. But a smart opponent will just veto it.

Thank for the posts so far! Very detailed run-downs. Much appreciated.

I have Versio on my "to paint" table, but she might move up a notch or two after reading your post @ evo454

Are there any transports that can carry vader or the emperor like the landspeeders can do for the rebels?

The occupier tank can carry one trooper unit, but I’m afraid it also moves at speed 1.

2 hours ago, CorellianCowboy said:

Thank for the posts so far! Very detailed run-downs. Much appreciated.

I have Versio on my "to paint" table, but she might move up a notch or two after reading your post @ evo454

Are there any transports that can carry vader or the emperor like the landspeeders can do for the rebels?

Only one that I can think of, and that's the TX-225 GAVw Occupier (the tank from Rogue One) but it's speed 1 and still Transport: Open so anyone you put in there suffers the same wounds as the tank, so a focused attack could potentially put your trooper out before they can really deploy, but it COULD work for getting a slower Vader or Palpatine unit into play without exposing them. For Palp, though, I'd use his Entourage to bring some Royal Guards to play Guardian for him rather than try to move him up with a tank.

14 hours ago, Khobai said:

I feel like speed 1 isnt being emphasized enough as a weakness for Vader or Palpatine.

Speed 1 is absolutely crippling for both of them unless you manage to get a scenario that works in your favor like breakthrough. But a smart opponent will just veto it.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Palp win major tournaments less than a year ago? I don't know that its as big of a weakness on Palp as it is on Vader.

If Vader had medium movement would he be too powerful? Because the designers think so apparently.

20 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Palp win major tournaments less than a year ago? I don't know that its as big of a weakness on Palp as it is on Vader.

If Vader had medium movement would he be too powerful? Because the designers think so apparently.

I think that there was a Comp. list that someone brought that they did really well with but I think it's more an indication of him being skilled with the commander rather than the commander being particularly good.

I don't personally see Vader or Palp as better or worse outright than most other commanders, they've got their strengths and weaknesses like all the rest, but a good list with a good scenario and a few lucky dice rolls can turn a joke list into a broke list.

On Vader having one speed, I think it makes sense thematically considering he doesn't do much running. One of his big schticks is that he's this slow, steady march to Imperial Victory. Operative Vader gains the ability to Spur which is nice, but can stack suppression quickly. In my experience, Operative Vader gets focused very quickly if he's not deployed conservatively so this extra suppression can cause an issue.

well, I usually don't pay attention to the tournament standings much, I thought I read about it here on the FFG site, so I figured it was a recap of some Worlds tournament probably over a year ago since Covid stagnated everything.

I'm just saying if the Emperor moved medium(2) like most things in the game He could utterly destroy armies with his command cards, Anger and Lightning. I've seen him do it, and yes you can play around it by moving out of the way or not putting your units close together, but then the emperor gets his way and can capture whatever objective he wants creating a huge "No Fly" zone.

I think he has to be movement 1 or they would have to cut 2 dice off his Force Lightning.

Vader is more of the "one unit at a time" figure, but even with his saber throw and force choke, he can be pretty nasty. The problem is dice rolls. If he rolls well, he's unstoppable, if he flubs his rolls, he can't recover.

If the single characters are too powerful, why take units at all? they would just make a game about the individual characters fighting each other like Marvel Crisis Protocol.

21 hours ago, evo454 said:

On Vader having one speed, I think it makes sense thematically considering he doesn't do much running.

The problem isnt necessarily that Vader is speed one. The problem is other characters like Luke are speed two and are way better.

Vader just doesnt get anything good to make up for being speed one when everyone else is speed two. And it creates a very apparent power gap between characters like Vader and Luke. Luke is just so much better because of speed 2. And in Luke vs Vader matchups Luke gets to dictate the entire engagement because he can swoop in on Vader and kill him with son of skywalker if the Vader player makes any mistakes. Speed 1 just feels bad on Vader because relentless doesnt make up for it. The dewback sucks for the exact same reason. relentless/spur are not good replacements for speed 2.

20 hours ago, buckero0 said:

If the single characters are too powerful, why take units at all? they would just make a game about the individual characters fighting each other like Marvel Crisis Protocol.

Vader isnt in danger of being too powerful though. Hes one of the weaker commanders IMO. Theres certainly wiggle room to buff Vader without him becoming too good. Because speed 1 is absolutely crippling for Vader when everyone else gets speed 2. So the only way Vader can ever get into melee is if the objective allows him too but smart opponents will veto any of those objectives.

3 hours ago, Khobai said:

The problem isnt necessarily that Vader is speed one. The problem is other characters like Luke are speed two and are way better.

I'll agree that there is a bit of a power gap, but I feel like part of it is in how a character is played. Buddy of mine is a hardcore Rebel and he uses Luke to charge ahead alone and disrupt my battle lines. So, in response to this, I use Vader (operative) as a counter hero: his primary mission is to keep named characters off my troopers and hold choke points (pun fully intended). So far, I've been able to make this work, though I don't like that I'm paying a ton of points for a trooper that, if all goes according to plan, I will never have to use.

The big benefit of Vader is his attack and the fact that things like Force Choke can get you a free distance kill. Couple that with Saber Throw and he can hold sections of the board pretty well if you can get him there.

Like much of the game, so much comes down to how the dice turn out and how the characters get used. I once had a unit of Snowtroopers survive 3 (yes three) rounds of Melee combat with operative Luke because they kept making their saves! He even rolled all hits/crits on one attack (after an aim) and somehow they rolled all seven of their saves successfully.

3 hours ago, Khobai said:

The problem isnt necessarily that Vader is speed one. The problem is other characters like Luke are speed two and are way better.

...

Vader isnt in danger of being too powerful though. Hes one of the weaker commanders IMO. Theres certainly wiggle room to buff Vader without him becoming too good. Because speed 1 is absolutely crippling for Vader when everyone else gets speed 2. So the only way Vader can ever get into melee is if the objective allows him too but smart opponents will veto any of those objectives.

So if Vader was speed 2, he wouldn't be too powerful?

Luke and Vader were created before or when the core set was the only thing available. None of the other units we play with now were even dreamt of (shoretroopers, Deathtroopers, Tauntauns, all CW, etc.)

The figures were balanced within the realm of the core set and that's it. I think the designers are 1. too busy trying to create new stuff to sell (their job) and 2. think that speed 2 on Vader make make him too powerful compared to other force users or characters.

I know this is a commander thread, but I figured I could cove the operative version of Vader as well since he's already covered here as a commander. Also since he seems to be a topic of conversation here!

Darth Vader (Operative)

Pros:

-Six Health, Three Courage, Red Saves, and Deflect can make him very hard to kill and extremely unlikely to be driven from the table

-Primary Melee attack is five red dice with Impact 3 and Pierce 3 (very nice), and he also has a secondary ranged attack with Blast and Scatter that won't be dealing much damage, but can disrupt enemy battle lines

- Jedi Hunter and Master of the Force 1 allow him to play as good counter to enemy force users and his upgrade slots let you kit him out as a duelist or a reaper (so you can focus characters or focus infantry)

- Relentless and Spur can help to mitigate his lower speed and allow him to attack more often

-Command Cards can make him a devastating center player: Vader's Might for saying "I don't like that unit being there", Fear and Dead Men for turning the enemy gun line against them (and also saying the most badass line in all of Star Wars IMO), and Darkness Descends for putting Vader on the board outside your deployment zone and getting him to the action quicker

-He can also use the commands for the Commander version of Vader, so Implacable, New Ways to Motivate Them, and Master of Evil are still options for the command deck

Cons:

-Remember Spur ? That's to compensate for only having Speed 1, which hinders his ability to move around the battlefield without incurring strain

- Darkness Descends can be as much of a hindrance as a help because you MUST deploy Vader last and MUST announce it first, limiting Vader's ability to forward deploy and it only gives him a lackluster 2 surge tokens in return

-no spots for comms or upgrades other than training and force powers can make ordering him around the battlefield hard if he's not by your commander's side or you don't upgrade your commander's range

-Back on the topic of Spur , 3 Courage is great for someone occasionally taking fire. However, if Vader is being focused down, Spur can exacerbate the issue of Suppression and can be easily over extended, losing him a valuable action in important moments

-he is expensive to take and can easily end up as over 25% of your army's point value despite not being a commander

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN COMMANDER AND OPERATIVE

1. Five Red Dice (Op) vs. Six Red Dice (Com) in melee

2. Op has a ranged attack, Com does not

3. Op gains 1 Training slot while Com has a third Force Power

4. Op gains Spur and Jedi Hunter

5. Op has 6 Health and 3 Courage while Com has 8 Health and "-" courage (meaning he and troopers under his influence cannot be driven from the board)

6. Op is 170pts base while Com is 190pts base (down 10 from the original printed value of 200pts)

"All I am surrounded by is Fear and trooper units staying at Range 2 of me"

Operative Vader is a force to be reckoned with when you can get him into the opposing Battle Line. Strong attacks, Scatter , and force upgrades (plus the ability to add Relentless for the extra Red die) mean that he can absolutely dominate the front line and scare off opposing troopers, forcing your opponent to maneuver around him to keep his/her troops safe. Unfortunately, this means that Vader will usually act as a deterrent more so than an actual counter/offensive fielder. His slow speed and low range for his attacks means that enemies can simply skirt around him and stay out of his fire zone. This can be used to lock down sections of the map or force enemy troops to move their line, giving you a planning advantage, but can be hard to execute properly if the dice don't go your way or the enemy isn't scared off by him. Focused fire kills Vader rather quickly either by direct damage or suppressing him enough to cost the second action.

At the end of the day, Vader has always been a favorite of mine because of the psychological effect of deploying him (but that's not going to hold for every group of players), but he can easily get ouflanked and then finished off by a well placed Luke or even Sabine swooping into melee to cap him off after being suppressed. He is personally my favorite operative to play just how stinkin FUN he is to use, but if you're thinking tactically then you might want to spend the points on someone with more range and versatility.

On 8/27/2020 at 10:56 AM, buckero0 said:

So if Vader was speed 2, he wouldn't be too powerful?

Why would he be? Operative Luke is speed 2 and is stronger than Operative Vader in almost every way.

Even if you made Operative Vader speed 2 he would still be worse than Operative Luke.

I personally think Operative Vader should lose spur and just get speed 2 and his points should go up accordingly. Spur is an absolutely abysmal rule. It ruins every unit its on.

And Commander Vader at speed 2 still wouldnt be stronger than Dooku. Although I think Commander Vader should stay at speed 1 and get buffed in some other way to make up for it.

There are already other commanders/operatives that exist that are stronger than Vader even if Vader was speed 2. So you cant really argue that Vader at speed 2 would be too strong. You can argue that its not thematic for Vader to be speed 2 and speed 1 suits him thematically, and that argument is a better one, but then you still need to compensate Vader in some way for only being Speed 1.

Following. Does anyone have a similar breakdown for Rebels? I'm currently running with Cassian and Operative Luke, but I'd love to see what people think about all the commanders and operatives.

On 8/27/2020 at 12:04 PM, evo454 said:

He is personally my favorite operative to play just how stinkin FUN he is to use, but if you're thinking tactically then you might want to spend the points on someone with more range and versatility.

Out of curiosity, which Vader sculpt is your favorite? Regardless of if i'm running Commander or Operative, I always bring the Operative model. I love that pose.

operative vader is my favorite pose too i use it to represent both vaders as well

On 9/4/2020 at 8:44 AM, oreet said:

Out of curiosity, which Vader sculpt is your favorite? Regardless of if i'm running Commander or Operative, I always bring the Operative model. I love that pose.

I really like the Operative Vader model as well. Both are good, but there's something more intimidating about the back swing and the forward stepping pose.

I would love to see more alternate models for a lot of the commanders. I've liked how some of the more recent ones (like Iden) gives you a lot more customization for the model itself.

On 9/4/2020 at 7:44 AM, oreet said:

Out of curiosity, which Vader sculpt is your favorite? Regardless of if i'm running Commander or Operative, I always bring the Operative model. I love that pose.

funny, I only use the Core set Vader. Force Choke in action!