On 8/17/2020 at 5:52 PM, dezzmont said:

I can think of nothing less thematic than rebels flying a uniform fleet of ships, because they very much didn't do that.

What?! the Rebel alliances first on screen battle involves 2 uniform squadrons with color designations under different squad leaders: Red squadron X-wings covering the Y-wings of Gold squadron. The imperials field the only x-wing miniatures style mixed wing when Vader, Mauler Mithel and Backstabber fly in a wing.

The next on screen space battle Rebels have yet again seperated their fleets fighters into squadrons, with B-wings, A-wings, and X-wings all flying in color coded groups under different commands.

in fact there is no Rebel alliance fight outside of Rogue 1 where the rebels dont specify that their fleet has seperated ships by type, and with good reason: Militaries dont fight that way. A B17 cant keep up with a Spitfire, and their roles run counter to eachother. Grouping them together makes both perform worse in their roles and is great way to get everyone killed.

As to the rest of your comment: X-wing miniatures is a squadron tactics game based loosely on WW2 dogfights, and the vast majority of players enjoy the option of fielding a uniform squadron of their favorite ships. Saying those thematic lists need to be bad for the game to be good shows a poor understanding of the game. You're basically arguing that weirdly complex combos should be the only way to play, which is BS.

The wombo-combo aspect of the game and mtg style deckbuilding are what ruined 1st edition, not flying 5 Khirax or 4 B-wings. Why would you want to encourage that?

On 9/5/2020 at 11:40 PM, RoockieBoy said:

I just came back from my FLGS. We played in a 10 player tournament and I went 3-0. Got second place because another player went 3-0 with better mov. Corran didn’t die in any game, and I was able to regen 3 shields on the first game, 0 on the second, and 1 on the third one. I took several pics so I’ll make a batrep tomorrow.

Batrep done! See here:

FWIW this thread inspired me to find a couple of aftermarket models to add to my stable. I definitely lack the experience to easily find a fit for them in a list, but all this discussion certainly helps. One thing I have learned is just having three bare dice (be they red or green) relies too much on chance. No duh, right? 😎 🍺

Doinking around trying to fit 2-3 of these into an interesting seeming list. Problem is at 3 the remaining points leaves some hapless scrub for a fourth. Decided to stick with two, leaving room for something more interesting.

Here’s one rough draft of an idea:

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Jyn Erso (2)
Lando Calrissian (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 88 Half Points: 44 Threshold: 7


Total: 200

4 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Doinking around trying to fit 2-3 of these into an interesting seeming list. Problem is at 3 the remaining points leaves some hapless scrub for a fourth. Decided to stick with two, leaving room for something more interesting.

Here’s one rough draft of an idea:

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Jyn Erso (2)
Lando Calrissian (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 88 Half Points: 44 Threshold: 7


Total: 200

I take a bit of issue with the crew. Jyn and Lando don't synergize, and you can already Evade with the MF title. In my experience, Lando isn't as good as just taking the action you want, since it'll never go wrong, plus spending the points on something else.

Plenty of options. Crack Shot on the E-Wings; Hull and Shield on Leia; Agile Gunner and Hull instead of Shield; swap the Shield for an Engine Upgrade or K-2SO. I wonder if Hera Syndulla would be nice on Leia, since she's got some red-move synergy... but double-stress sucks... eh. Lots of ways to go.

Anyhow, taking two of these Rogues plus a reasonably built Falcon should be OK. E-Wings are a fun little ship.

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I take a bit of issue with the crew. Jyn and Lando don't synergize, and you can already Evade with the MF title. In my experience, Lando isn't as good as just taking the action you want, since it'll never go wrong, plus spending the points on something else.

Plenty of options. Crack Shot on the E-Wings; Hull and Shield on Leia; Agile Gunner and Hull instead of Shield; swap the Shield for an Engine Upgrade or K-2SO. I wonder if Hera Syndulla would be nice on Leia, since she's got some red-move synergy... but double-stress sucks... eh. Lots of ways to go.

Anyhow, taking two of these Rogues plus a reasonably built Falcon should be OK. E-Wings are a fun little ship.

Or you can just strip the Calrissian, Shield Upgrade and Title for Perceptive Copilot. You take Focus and end up with Focus + Evade. And truth be told, Shield Upgrade does very little on the Falcon. You don't raise the half points threshold for one. And with 1 Agility it won't be that useful imho.

@Spinland I would downgrade the R3s to R4s to give the E-Wings white 1 Hard turns, which leaves you points for the Title back. Leia with Focus + Evade + Title is super tanky. I would put it much higher than the Shield Upgrade in terms of keeping health intact.

Thanks for the insights! My thinking on the Falcon crew was just brainstorming ways to get more focus and evade tokens so it lives longer (plus the extra shield). Jyn was so if the opponent picked what you didn't want you could just change it back. Or something like that. Mainly I'm casting about for a cast of fun that I haven't seen a lot of, yet (and there's probably a reason for that. Heh).

I love R4 mechs, personally. I originally had them on the Rogues but thought the R3 would work better with the FCS in getting lots of locks to use. On both these and on T-70s I like the extra freedom of movement and stress shedding.

Thanks again! Will revisit this soon as time permits.

Here's a little tweaking over morning coffee. The idea here is get two focus tokens and Jyn turns one of them into an evade for purposes of the Falcon title. There's a big, fat target painted on Leia and I think keeping the Evil Enema busy trying to put holes in her ship is a good thing as it lets the Es do their thing (with a very maneuverable dial thanks to the R4s). I want the Falcon to survive that gauntlet as long as possible.

I considered Crack Shot on the Es but: not enough points, and I'm still far from skilled enough to reliably aim bullseyes. I liked the synergy of FCS/R3 but with the Es' native ability to get locks at extreme range it was easy to let that go, free up a couple of points, and go with the R4s to open up the dial more.

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Jyn Erso (2)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 90 Half Points: 45 Threshold: 7

Total: 200

As always, hits and crits welcome. 😎 🍺

44 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Here's a little tweaking over morning coffee. The idea here is get two focus tokens and Jyn turns one of them into an evade for purposes of the Falcon title. There's a big, fat target painted on Leia and I think keeping the Evil Enema busy trying to put holes in her ship is a good thing as it lets the Es do their thing (with a very maneuverable dial thanks to the R4s). I want the Falcon to survive that gauntlet as long as possible.

I considered Crack Shot on the Es but: not enough points, and I'm still far from skilled enough to reliably aim bullseyes. I liked the synergy of FCS/R3 but with the Es' native ability to get locks at extreme range it was easy to let that go, free up a couple of points, and go with the R4s to open up the dial more.

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Fire-Control System (2)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Jyn Erso (2)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 90 Half Points: 45 Threshold: 7

Total: 200

As always, hits and crits welcome. 😎 🍺

I know Leia's the new hotness as far as the Falcon goes, but I think Lando'd get more done here; the E-wing needs every action you can throw at it and focus/lock is better than force/lock on the turns lando takes the action.

5 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

I know Leia's the new hotness as far as the Falcon goes, but I think Lando'd get more done here; the E-wing needs every action you can throw at it and focus/lock is better than force/lock on the turns lando takes the action.

Interesting. Trying to see the distinction, not quite getting it yet. Leia can throw over a focus, plus that E can take a lock (or a linked action into a lock), so isn't she already granting a focus/lock for one point less?

I feel like I've said this before, but ask 6 players about E-Wings, and you'll get 12 opinions.

I'm pretty firm in the R3 E-Wing camp. I understand why the R4 people like the R4, but I love those double-locks, and think that matters greatly. Having a second locked enemy gives you a lot more options if the first one is out of range, ran away, or was just destroyed. This isn't a Torpedo list, but never Torpedo without R3.

Leia vs Lando is interesting. I think I mentioned swapping to Lando was an option in a draft of my last reply that I changed and forgot parts of it. Both have ways of getting extra actions to the E-Wings. Being able to toss one a focus when it does a flip-move, particularly if it still has an FCS lock up, can be amazing, and that's something Lando can't do, since he activates after they'd be stressed, but he does stuff Leia can't.

I don't really love PerCo/Jyn on Leia, since she already has the force, and 10 points for Focus/Evade/Force doesn't feel worth it compared to just title for Evade/Force, at least to me. Without the Force, I think it's a sweet combo, but with the force... I'd rather spend the points on something else.

@theBitterFig I am a firm believer, that the R3 is a much better choice on the E-Wing, but with a Falcon Leia the R4s free the points for the title. As for the Leia vs Lando comparison, well I feel like Lando is a bit too... Easy to read with his movement. I am currently flying a lot of Leia Falcon with Kanan Jarrus and I have to say, her dial is very open. And we are looking at 77 points Leia vs 83 points Lando.

A Lando team might look like his:

• Lando Calrissian: Leia Organa, Nien Numb
• Knave Sqd Escort: R3, FCS
• Knave Sqd Escort: R3, FCS

There's so many trade-offs that E-Wing lists have to make. Good for thinking about them, but lists which don't have to make trade-offs might be better performing.

Anyhow, Leia-crew seems wicked sweet with an E-Wing list, @Schanez , but I keep looking at that Init 2 and getting nervous. Like, is it give up FCS?

Hard choices.

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm pretty firm in the R3 E-Wing camp. I understand why the R4 people like the R4, but I love those double-locks, and think that matters greatly. Having a second locked enemy gives you a lot more options if the first one is out of range, ran away, or was just destroyed. This isn't a Torpedo list, but never Torpedo without R3.

...

I don't really love PerCo/Jyn on Leia, since she already has the force, and 10 points for Focus/Evade/Force doesn't feel worth it compared to just title for Evade/Force, at least to me. Without the Force, I think it's a sweet combo, but with the force... I'd rather spend the points on something else.

Fair points. If I drop the crew combo that 10 points lets me go back to R3 on the Es with eight more to play around with.

Not really seeing a lot of shenanigans in that budget that grips me, so punting and taking two points for Marksman on the Es allows an Agile Gunner on the Falcon to make arc management easier. No fancy internal synergy in this Falcon crew, just beef and potatoes fare and one point for bid. Maybe simpler is better, especially for my level of playing experience. Leia is still slippery, and can still toss focus counters, so there's that. Draw fire and let the Es do most of the inflicting of hurt. Maybe those Marksmanship mods will spook the opposition some. I see that mod as, "well, it's only one point and maybe I'll luck into a bullseye sometime."

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Marksmanship (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Marksmanship (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Agile Gunner (5)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 85 Half Points: 43 Threshold: 7

Total: 199

I've been pleasantly surprised by both Marksmanship and Gavin Darklighter as I've toyed around more with them.

And to be sure, I don't know that there's a huge difference between all these lists. I can see merits to all of them, and things that I wish were different, even in the ones I come up with.

Yeah, read you loud & clear. In my copious perusal of streamed games featuring the Falcon (especially the Leia flavor), the main thing that kept leaping out at me is the whole opposing game plan seems to focus on taking that ship down, so I've been somewhat preoccupied with loading it up with multiple layers of defense. Thing is, the Es are spendy enough that you can't really do both without giving up a lot. Hmm.

I keep returning in my head to Title/Shield Leia, with Crack Shot E-Wings.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I keep returning in my head to Title/Shield Leia, with Crack Shot E-Wings.

Which (and you probably already knew this) just squeezes in at cost.

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Crack Shot (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 58 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)
Crack Shot (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
R3 Astromech (3)

Ship total: 58 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Leia Organa (77)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 84 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 7

Total: 200

Interesting. I'll have to fire up Fly Casual soon and test this out for a few rounds to see how it feels. Might as well try to work on getting those bullseyes; flying against the AI is good for that, among other things, even if it's not up to the level of a real opponent.

In case you haven't already seen it, here's a stream of a match from Corellia featuring an EEEA list against a Sloane Swarm. Just one data point, and, of course, actual game play always figures into the outcome, but I still found it interesting to check out. Don't know that I'll find a lot of E-Wing material out there.

10 hours ago, Spinland said:

Interesting. Trying to see the distinction, not quite getting it yet. Leia can throw over a focus, plus that E can take a lock (or a linked action into a lock), so isn't she already granting a focus/lock for one point less?

Leia only gives focus when the E performs a red maneuver, lando gives an action whenever he performs a blue. The distinction I was making is when the falcon keeps its force/ability for itself.

2 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

Leia only gives focus when the E performs a red maneuver, lando gives an action whenever he performs a blue. The distinction I was making is when the falcon keeps its force/ability for itself.

Okay, got it now. Thanks.