Hi everybody,
I have a small doubt on William starting equipment. He should have 3 monster trophies at the very beginning of the game. In the game we played yesterday, I draw for him a Skeleton, a Ghoul and Wizard Whateley. Wizard Whateley cannot be claimed as a trophy, he should be returned to the box for a free random spell. So I returned the trophy to the box and gave William the spell. Have I played it correctly?
And what about if I had drawn Barnabas Marsh? The set-up happens before Mythos zero, so no doomer removal?
Thank you for help

J

If you read the backside of either Wizard Whateley or Barnabas Marsh, you'll find that they both start with the line " If you pass a combat check (...) ".

Since you don't actually pass a combat check with William when gaining the starting equipment, I'd say you just take the monster trophies and ignore effects that would have taken place as a result of a combat check.

That's what I'd do, for the reasons I'd do it. There are plenty of encounters that allow you to take monsters as trophies, and they clarify that you can take the trophies "even if they are Endless ." I'd say that same idea applies to those types of monsters.

Uh, ok then. I simply thought that having a trophy implies that you has defeated the monster, some time before the "normal" game starts, and so, not having the ability to take "unique" monsters as trophies would imply that you had killed that monsters, and had a certain payoff instead of the trophies (everything before the "normal" game starts). I can take Tibs point for "endless" monsters, since there is a plenty of encounters allowing you to take endless monsters as trophies. But... it's the same even for "monsters that have to be returned to the box"?
I mean, not only at this regard. Some encounters instruct you to draw a monster and keeping it as a trophy even if "endless". So, according to Vitus and Tibs, if I draw a Mi-Go, I keep the trophy and not the unique item, right? And if I draw a Mask, I can take it as a trophy too?

Just for my curiosity: is there a (proto) official something at this regard (FAQ, KW notes, and so on) or it's just a "most experienced player reflection"?
And thx for help! Really ::nodding::

Julia said:

Yeah. They all say the same thing, Yorrick didn't defeat them in combat, hence... :') The same ruling would apply if you drew their monster trophy from the graveyard (if I remember that card correctly). There's no FAQ ruling on it. Even though it sounds a bit weird because the situation is unusual, the text is actually very clear (in terms of rules, combat check is clearly defined).

http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Mi-Go

http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Tcho-tcho

http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Wizard_Whateley

Julia said:

Read the back of William's sheet. It implies that William didn't defeat anything; he just dug them up, or found them strewn about his graveyard. He's sorta stealing someone else's trophies.

Now, why that someone else didn't put Whateley back in the box, I have no idea.

In all those cases, I draw until I get a "valid" monster for a trophy. Not endless nor with a special ability that put it back in the box or the cup. Just as if I would defeat them in combat.

Whateley might have just dropped dead. With nobody around to learn his black magic, he just expired still intact rather than disintegrating.

And yes, before you super-nerds can pre-empt me, I know that my explanation isn't congruent with this encounter:

jgt7771 said:

Very good point. Thematically has a lot of sense (but why, why, why am I not allowed to pass monsters trophies to my pals? I can collect them if I found them dead, but once they are dead and in my possession, I cannot give them for free. I mean, I'm searching for a thematical explanation, nor the rules).

Thanks everybody for help! (AH: the only board game where you lose sanity just by trying to understand the rules ::laughing:

Tibs said:

I think this card explains everything. The zebra clearly wandered off out of the Dreamlands, wherein it was unable to survive in the mortal realm and shapechanged into the being which dreamt it up and caused it to exist in the first place, that of Wizard Whateley who often dreams of zebras and rainbows before the insanity causing energies of black magic warp his thoughts into death and turmoil. William Yorick must have happened upon this shapechanged zebra, and being a gravedigger, feels bad for all who aren't buried and at peace, so he scooped him up in order to put the body at rest, but then gates started popping up around town, and such begins the game.

That's the encounter you were referring to, right?

Julia: I've always regarded trophies, both monster and gate, to exhibit a duality of being either physical trophies or stories of an experience, depending on which more conveniently explains a given situation. In the case of trading trophies, they are merely experiences and can't be traded.

DoomTurtle: please give me an address where I can mail this:

Julia said:

I'm with Tibs. I've generally settled on the idea that a trophy is "rumored clout":

"Sheriff? This here's the fella that knows what happened uptown." "Send him in. If he ain't crazy, maybe we can use him."

But maybe something physical has to be involved when it makes more sense:

"Okay, professor," >plink< "you ever see a fang that big on a land critter before? I got its arm out in the car."

For William, knowledge of dead things is just an occupational hazard. If he's using it as a trophy, it's clout, as above. If he's using it as a Clue, then something about his current predicament (skill check) has triggered something he just remembered about that one time in the graveyard:

"Wait! Byakhee don't like eggplant! Of course!!!"

Tibs said:

Tibs, Jggt, thank you for your explanation, it was great, has a lot of thematical sense, and so on, but... don't know. I'm still thinking about it, and every dam(n) case it comes to my mind can be explained in this way... wow... ok. so I can spend trophies at Ma's boarding house for an ally. If they are metaphisical, I'm just telling some stories, and some of the guys drinking whisky on a rocking chair winks at me for my stories. No sense to tell the same stuff to my pals because they're already with me. Yeah, great. Thank ya guys!

DoomTurtle said:

Nice ;') I feel like my role of insanest has been usurped in this thread.

Tibs said:

You can send that to:
1 L. Chest Cavity Way
Bloody, Left Aorta 90210

Because that's where I'm keeping it forever...my heart.

Julia said:

Not every case... what about the Dissection location ability of the Science Building?

-Nero- said:

Well Kroen I'd have to say thats why it was said they have the dual nature of being a physical object and an experience.

Who?

Anyway, if they're physical, no reason they couldn't be traded. Why won't I be able to dissect your trophies in the science building while you go telling stories to people at Ma's?

-Nero- said:

Because that's what the rules say Kroen.

Boy, you need to be a little less obvious if you're going to start playing this game again.

So we're talking about rules now? :/ I thought we were talking about thematics.

Veet, don't you perceive banned people voices lingering in these vaults?

::Shrug:: I don't mind pretending he's not Kroen if he doesn't act like Kroen.

*shrug* OK I'll play, I guess Kroen wasn't smart enough to get around his ban this time. I guess the mods outmaneuvered him this time.

::Laughter::

That's not quite what I meant, but funny ;'D